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Randomizer BS Zelda Version

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#1 pixcalibur

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 11:45 AM

Next up on the list is Randomizer BS, another in the series of Randomizer quests by HeroOfFire.  Always enjoy playing these Randomizer games given its high replay value and unpredictable nature assuming items are randomized.  BS I believe stands for "Broadcast Satellaview."  Originally, per Zelda Wiki, "BS The Legend of Zelda" was a remake of LoZ, using a special BS-X Broadcasting System add on for the SNES.  Levels here tend to be shorter and simpler in general, with the BS 1-x levels spelling one thing, and BS 2-x levels spelling something else.

 

Anyway, fairly short quest, at least the main part of it.  If you want the extra stuff, it'll extend a bit longer.

 

Part 1 - Nice start with some solid items that will help move things along


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#2 KingPridenia

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 07:50 PM

Man, first Knuckles with Super Randomizer, now you with BS Randomizer. This is most likely HoF's dream come true to see two of his games LP'ed at about the same time. Great start with the early White Sword.



#3 pixcalibur

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 10:33 AM

Man, first Knuckles with Super Randomizer, now you with BS Randomizer. This is most likely HoF's dream come true to see two of his games LP'ed at about the same time. Great start with the early White Sword.

Yeah, I'll be getting to Outlands and Alpha in due time.  Those will take some time to record



#4 pixcalibur

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:17 PM

Part 2 - Regular levels tend to be a bit trickier.  Took a little gamble that pays off quite nicely.  The extra offense is very welcome at this stage.  Then a few other basic supplies to scoop up



#5 pixcalibur

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:24 PM

Part 3 - Picking up some solid equipment that will make the next bits easier to handle.  



#6 pixcalibur

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:20 AM

Part 4 - I'm hoping the base stepladder wasn't supposed to be found this late.  Then again, the detouring does pay off in other ways...



#7 HeroOfFire

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:59 PM

Early White Sword? Given where it was, that secret cave was where the first sword was, and then your starting weapon just so happened to be a sword as well.

 

Ladder isn't needed for all the level 4s. Technically you don't need the ladder until after the items in BS Level 5s, and can reach one item location in each of the minus level 4s without a ladder (the other item will need a ladder to get to though). Plus, the ladder can be in the overworlds such as atop the waterfalls.

 

BS probably has the highest enemy difficulty curve. Between only 4 main dungeon sets and minus 2nd level 9 and the final dungeons having highest enemy difficulty, it is not uncommon to feel underpowered. At least it looks like most of your swords and defense rings are not hidden away, as Eppy discovered that fateful seed. If you were going into the late level 8s still undergeared, then a distant trip before the 9s may be in order. At least Outlands fixes the difficulty curve a little.

 

The random bonuses are time based, and repeat every hour. However, the clock only ticks when not looking at your inventory, so the in game clock will not sync up to the timed bonuses. The shortest bonus is at 58-59 minutes, and is a 60% shop discount. This becomes redundant with the best wealth medal though.



#8 pixcalibur

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:52 PM

Early White Sword? Given where it was, that secret cave was where the first sword was, and then your starting weapon just so happened to be a sword as well.

 

Ladder isn't needed for all the level 4s. Technically you don't need the ladder until after the items in BS Level 5s, and can reach one item location in each of the minus level 4s without a ladder (the other item will need a ladder to get to though). Plus, the ladder can be in the overworlds such as atop the waterfalls.

 

BS probably has the highest enemy difficulty curve. Between only 4 main dungeon sets and minus 2nd level 9 and the final dungeons having highest enemy difficulty, it is not uncommon to feel underpowered. At least it looks like most of your swords and defense rings are not hidden away, as Eppy discovered that fateful seed. If you were going into the late level 8s still undergeared, then a distant trip before the 9s may be in order. At least Outlands fixes the difficulty curve a little.

 

The random bonuses are time based, and repeat every hour. However, the clock only ticks when not looking at your inventory, so the in game clock will not sync up to the timed bonuses. The shortest bonus is at 58-59 minutes, and is a 60% shop discount. This becomes redundant with the best wealth medal though.

 

Hmm, assuming there are three spots where at least one sword is found, not sure where they are if the starting weapon is not one of the spots.

 

Yeah, I think only 1-4 (Mallet) needs the ladder.  The others I could have pretty much gotten through ok.  Well, tried the overworld spots and didn't find a ladder.  Pretty much some ouch-ness in a way when you see where the other ladder ends up being found in (and another good item for that matter)...

 

BS levels tend to gradually up the enemy curve, where the 1's and 2's tend to steer up faster.  Luckily, offense and defense weren't really an issue.  Usually, red ring + silver sword can easily get into and past the 9's no sweat

 

So if you already have what would be the bonus (rupee ring, red money coin, crown, etc), what appears then?



#9 pixcalibur

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 10:25 PM

Part 5 - Now we can go back to working on more levels.  And yep, finding that ladder nets us some good items.

 

Yeah, I definitely play with the boomerang too much, lol


Edited by pixcalibur, 10 February 2016 - 10:28 PM.

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#10 pixcalibur

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 02:00 PM

Part 6 - We'll just work systematically upward on levels.  Easier just to take out a clump of levels on one side rather than going back and forth on overworlds



#11 pixcalibur

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 12:26 AM

Part 7 - Taking care of some 1-X levels now just to keep completed levels around even



#12 HeroOfFire

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 01:01 PM

I admit BS has some interesting design choices. Fairly linear dungeons (except the level 8s), info guys behind locked doors, the random wrong way stairs in the level 7s, and the suddenly hard to find expansion rooms in the level 5s. BS was also clearly lacking some of the original enemies. There were no blue bubbles, dungeons had fairy rooms instead for curing curses. Gleeok also never appeared as a boss. And the Patras were weaker than the ones seen in the NES Zelda (I did weaken the BS Patra so it isn't too hard for a Level 5 boss).

 

I like to keep my hints cryptic, but still useful. You are told the clue to some level 9s is in the overworld. A guy tells you there is something wrong with some caves, which points players in the right direction. Another guy hints you need flippers for some things by saying you need to be able to cross water. And the most famous one, the hands refers to wallmasters, since they take you back to the first room where you can push a statue for a secret item (Yes, original BS did this). The hints are useful, but never direct.

 

The take the stairs back to somewhere else trick in Magic Jar is hinted at, the first stairs take you to a dead end with a key, so unless you Continue Warp, you have to go back in the stairs that go somewhere else. An item hidden this way later is hinted in another fashion. Not only is it a single room with no other way in but stairs, but the stairs that appear in the room are a different tint. I did this to both of these go back puzzles in Super as well.

 

Starting with Modern I've always had an enemy difficulty curve. Levels are ranked 1-10, with 10 being the hardest enemies. The easiest level 1 is a 1, and the other level 1s are either a 2 or 3. Some levels don't go up in difficulty from the previous one, as level 3s and 4s are the same difficulty in BS. BS 1st is the easiest, BS 2nd and Minus 1st are 1 harder, and Minus 2nd is 2 harder. And Modern had a level 4 with Blue Wizzrobes too, that one was Rupee, which was also in a 2 harder dungeon set. The difficulty issue comes from there being less sets to play, meaning less chances for items to keep up with the curve. Also, Modern and Super had the difficulty stay the same twice, while BS only does it once. So while 1st Quest Level 9 was a 7, BS 1st Level 9 is an 8. When you get to the secret stuff, that curve starts at 4 but only goes up every 3 levels.

 

BS also has one other difference from Super, dungeons have a concept called foreign enemies. While each dungeon still has a dedicated enemy set, enemies from one other set can show up, but will be a difficulty lower. For example, BS 1st Level 8 is a Goriya set, so some strong Ropes, Stalfos, and Goriyas show up. But is also allows enemies from the Darknut set, so there are Darknuts, Pols Voice, and Gibdos, but the stronger variants don't show up.


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#13 pixcalibur

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 12:47 AM

I admit BS has some interesting design choices. Fairly linear dungeons (except the level 8s), info guys behind locked doors, the random wrong way stairs in the level 7s, and the suddenly hard to find expansion rooms in the level 5s. BS was also clearly lacking some of the original enemies. There were no blue bubbles, dungeons had fairy rooms instead for curing curses. Gleeok also never appeared as a boss. And the Patras were weaker than the ones seen in the NES Zelda (I did weaken the BS Patra so it isn't too hard for a Level 5 boss).

 

I like to keep my hints cryptic, but still useful. You are told the clue to some level 9s is in the overworld. A guy tells you there is something wrong with some caves, which points players in the right direction. Another guy hints you need flippers for some things by saying you need to be able to cross water. And the most famous one, the hands refers to wallmasters, since they take you back to the first room where you can push a statue for a secret item (Yes, original BS did this). The hints are useful, but never direct.

 

The take the stairs back to somewhere else trick in Magic Jar is hinted at, the first stairs take you to a dead end with a key, so unless you Continue Warp, you have to go back in the stairs that go somewhere else. An item hidden this way later is hinted in another fashion. Not only is it a single room with no other way in but stairs, but the stairs that appear in the room are a different tint. I did this to both of these go back puzzles in Super as well.

 

Starting with Modern I've always had an enemy difficulty curve. Levels are ranked 1-10, with 10 being the hardest enemies. The easiest level 1 is a 1, and the other level 1s are either a 2 or 3. Some levels don't go up in difficulty from the previous one, as level 3s and 4s are the same difficulty in BS. BS 1st is the easiest, BS 2nd and Minus 1st are 1 harder, and Minus 2nd is 2 harder. And Modern had a level 4 with Blue Wizzrobes too, that one was Rupee, which was also in a 2 harder dungeon set. The difficulty issue comes from there being less sets to play, meaning less chances for items to keep up with the curve. Also, Modern and Super had the difficulty stay the same twice, while BS only does it once. So while 1st Quest Level 9 was a 7, BS 1st Level 9 is an 8. When you get to the secret stuff, that curve starts at 4 but only goes up every 3 levels.

 

BS also has one other difference from Super, dungeons have a concept called foreign enemies. While each dungeon still has a dedicated enemy set, enemies from one other set can show up, but will be a difficulty lower. For example, BS 1st Level 8 is a Goriya set, so some strong Ropes, Stalfos, and Goriyas show up. But is also allows enemies from the Darknut set, so there are Darknuts, Pols Voice, and Gibdos, but the stronger variants don't show up.

 

Yeah, found out about those dead end passages that lead back towards start, but did that for my mapping anyway, so helps to stumble around in testing.

 

Well, some of those hints are rather subtle, usually stumbling into the right answer by chance or by somehow noticing a very subtle change in something.  I think the Tree Territory bonus stumped me for the longest time.  Just didn't pay attention to the water edges then.  In Alpha, went to test that spot then, which of course was a solid edge now.

 

Luckily I tend not to use F6-Continue, so I can test out all the passages to see what goes where.

 

And man, just noticed that the regular levels are labelled "Minus 1" and "Minus 2."  Makes the naming in Alpha make more sense, though still had to rename Minus 2 in some way



#14 pixcalibur

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 01:28 AM

Part 8 - Clearing out more levels as we work our way towards the 9's



#15 pixcalibur

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 10:44 PM

Part 9 - Taking out more of the -2-X levels, picking up a few good items along the way, one of the items closing off a potential weakness





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