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Development plans going forward


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#1 Mani Kanina

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:32 PM

The tileset development sat basically inactive for around a year, only kicking back up again early fall last year, this is why updates were few and far between.

However, going forward I'm going to provide an outline here about further features and updates, when you can expect them, and what's on hold. Mind, these plans may change, but it's currently not likely. The tileset is, for the most part, in a general good state already. If people gut out all the pre-packed scripts (which admittedly takes a bit of effort), then it should be more serviceable than what EzGBZ is at this point. A lot of things that need further work is scripted features, I know plenty of off cases where things break that, afaik, haven't even been reported. That being said, the truth of the matter is that the production for the tileset will still be rather sporadic, especially now when I'm the one managing it solo. As such, the time frame for when things will be done is all going to be relative to each other.


List of things that are completed and will be in the next version:
1. A fair few selection of new overworld palettes.
2. Two dungeon palettes.


Expected in the near future:
1. More palettes:
We are still not quite where I want the tileset to be in regards to palette selections, but it's getting there. It's not a huge effort to make more, so expect a few on average with each update.

2. Tile and combo page fixes, changes, and additions:
I had my own ideas for what would make for good organization here as well as what would be a good amount of things to include, but this is by far the area where feedback has been the most valuable. I know I got certain complaints early on that only two mountain sets were comboed in base, but when I ran a poll on the matter, it seems the average use per quest is one mountain set. But on the other hand, most users agreed that more tree types should be comboed in base, which was then done. Regardless, I'm taking feedback and updating these things on the go, as well as adding things that people bring up as missing (the two latest additions based on feedback being: wall fountains and floor spikes optimized for chaining).


Things with no time frame:
1. Adding moosh's script for crystal barriers:
It's one of the biggest core puzzle mechanics in the GB zeldas, at one point I considered scripting a solution myself, but moosh released a script kit for it a good while back that looks promising. So when I have the time to mess more with scripts it will be implemented, probably.

2. Gutting out the weapon script header that is included in the tileset:
It's currently only used for the fire and ice rods, but the header itself is causing issues elsewhere and I haven't been particularly impressed with the implementations provided in it. The fire and ice rod items will most likely be temporarily gutted with the header and I will attempt to re-implement them at a later point.

3. Recruiting another person to help me with the tileset:
I can do fine with the development of the tileset currently, but it would be nice with another hand. Mostly though I'm looking for someone to hand the tileset management and updates off to once the tileset hits 1.0 in the future (probably pretty far off, tbh). I know for sure that I wasn't the only one who wanted a differently structured GB tileset, but the project kinda grew a bit larger than I expected. It's also not something I want to continually work on and refine forever, but there might be others who want. Once I'm satisfied with the state it is in, I plan on moving on to other projects.

4. Implementing missing ZC quick features:
We recently added configurations for relational combos for water, lava, and pits, but there are other similar features in ZC that are currently unused, such as: NES door configs, dungeon carving, and preset combo groupings. I'm not sure how usable or desirable some of these things are in a GB tileset, but I feel it's something that should probably be looked into at some point and at least offer a bit of each, if possible.

5. Import missing graphics:
Some graphics from the GB zelda games are still missing, most notably a huge chunk of the bosses. It's debatable how usable a lot of these things will be without major scripting or graphical reformatting (to better fit sizes), but they should be in the tileset nonetheless.


Things that are really far off:
1. Updating the tileset to ZC 2.55:
Things change with changes in ZC version, I have already been made aware that some scripts don't work anymore due to changes, etc. I don't fancy splitting development branches for the tileset, so my current mantra is having the tileset on the current mainline update. It took a while to update to 2.53 due to a lack of updates in general, but that's where we are sitting currently and probably will be for a while. I don't actively track the development of the engine, but the tileset will update to 2.55 eventually, and almost guaranteed before it hits 1.0. The main reason that the tileset isn't moving over to developmental version of ZC is because I don't want to force all who wish to use the tileset to use the developmental branch of the engine. And to iterate, I don't fancy splitting the tileset into two developmental branches for myself.

2. Remaking the scripted subscreen/pausescreen:
I would describe the current iteration of the subscreen as "usable if you want to deal with random crap breaking and not working", it has a lot of quirks too it. Scripting a custom subscreen for 2.50.2 that interacts with all the base items, all scripted items, and also allows assigning to two extra buttons for all the things is kind of a nightmare. There is a lot that could be done to refine it and fix it up, but it's very hard to motivate it for some very simple reasons: 2.55 will add in a lot of extra scripting functionality and features (some which are in 2.53.1, I hear), that would trivialize the making of a subscreen as well as just removing a lot of jank related to it. Hench, this is something I will work on when the move to 2.55 for the tileset is getting closer.



There are probably more things that are on the agenda that I forgot about, but that's the gist of what's in the pipeline for the tileset. I generally don't see myself wanting to argue with people over these things, it's more of a PSA to people who want to know the future of the tileset; But if people have any thoughts or comments they can still leave them, I suppose.


Edited by Mani Kanina, 20 January 2020 - 12:40 PM.

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#2 venrob

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 01:34 PM

Of note, both fire and ice rods are planned as part of ZC 2.55 in-engine.


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#3 Mani Kanina

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:42 PM

Yeah, I heard it was potentially on the table, but since I haven't kept up to date with the development I didn't want to say anything, but that sounds good!



#4 Avaro

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 08:56 AM

Good plan. The more palettes the better btw, it'd ultimately create a larger variety of different looking areas and dungeons between VD quests. I think an underwater palette may be missing, idk.

 

I'd remove the scripted subscreen. I'm scared of it. Nice to see updates on this set after a long downtime.


Edited by Avaro, 21 January 2020 - 08:57 AM.

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#5 venrob

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 11:35 AM

I'd remove the scripted subscreen. I'm scared of it. Nice to see updates on this set after a long downtime.

I am a HUGE advocate for scripted subcsreens.

That said, tilesets should NEVER come with scripted subscreens.

Why? Well, scripted subscreens are.... incredibly tied to the quest. That's just not something I'd include in a tileset, unless you somehow make it extremely easy to edit. But, "Easy to edit scripted subscreen" is an oxymoron.


Oh, also? Never make your own `std.zh` to replace the main one. Always import the main one. Always. Otherwise you will run into issues upgrading to new ZC versions. So just, always use the main proper std.zh. Never import any of the files imported by std.zh directly, never modify said files either. Just... don't. I've had enough bug reports of people trying to use VD in 2.55 to the point of exhaustion.



#6 ShadowTiger

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 11:46 AM

Very true.  I think it's the same (Or similar) rationality to why I see so many mailbox boxes in hardware stores not having mounting screws included.  There's an awful lot of assumptions going on there, because you definitely have to use the right screws and anchors for what you have.  If it includes cheap little screws for masonry and you have shingles, you're going to have a bad time.  Stuff isn't automatically compatible just because it's included.



#7 Mani Kanina

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:38 PM

Oh, also? Never make your own `std.zh` to replace the main one. Always import the main one. Always. Otherwise you will run into issues upgrading to new ZC versions. So just, always use the main proper std.zh. Never import any of the files imported by std.zh directly, never modify said files either. Just... don't. I've had enough bug reports of people trying to use VD in 2.55 to the point of exhaustion.

This was initially done for dependency reasons, since I didn't keep track of what libraries came with ZC and which one have been stand alone. That being said Zoria pointed this out in the other thread too, but, this was actually fixed a fair few versions ago with updated file paths that should only take the defaults that come with ZC. Admittedly I need to get around to deleting the ones included with the tileset since I kinda forgot about that, but the pathing should go to the ones included with ZC.

Of course, the reality of tilesets is that people don't (and can't easily) update tileset versions mid quest development. I know some people are still using beta 0.1.0, which IIRC I even mentioned back then that making full sized quests in beta versions of the tileset is a bad idea.

#8 venrob

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 10:53 PM

One major thing about std is that it can hold many things for compatibility. Namely, in 2.55, "item" is no longer a type. Item scripts are now "itemdata script", and item objects are now "itemsprite" objects. This would break all old scripts, except that std.zh includes a user definition file, which contains "typedef itemsprite item" and "script typedef itemdata item", which define "item" as an alias for those types. Not including that file (i.e. not including the latest proper std.zh file) would result in a failure to compile of.... a lot of stuff.


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