42 replies to this topic

[Anthus]

A few years back, King_Aquamentus made a simplified version of LA using Classic. I thought it was a really cool idea, but it received luke warm reviews, and it was criticized for being too simple.

 

I would like to do a similar treatment of ALttP. Let me describe what exactly a simplified version would entail, and what it won't have. This is going to be a fairly comprehensive list, and some stuff it subject to change but I mainly just want to see if this is something people would bother playing, or at least, give a chance.

 

It would have/ be:

• Both full overworlds, redrawn in Classic.
• All dungeons, re-imagined in Classic/ ZC style.
• Major cutscenes, and events recreated, but probably changed slightly cause of reasons.
• Instead of a magic mirror, the Master Sword will activate warps found throughout the worlds. (might need a script, but I'll get to that)
• Instead of a moon pearl, you will slowly lose HP in the DW until you collect the Tower's item (spoiler: Moon Pearl).
• A fairly faithful transcript of what NPCs say, and do. This would keep in line with the flow of the original, and compensate for narrative changes made in this project.

It would not have/ changes to be made:

• No true Z3 scrolling.
• No Magic Mirror
• No jumpable ledges/ floors.
• No lightable torches
• No AlttP style dark rooms.
• EDIT: No liftable objects
• No NPCs that follow you (Zelda, and the fake Maiden in Level 4, and the little frog guy for the tempered sword).
• No true Ice, or ice magic.
• No magic medallions (but these will be changed to other things that fit in).

Bosses... This is a big one, and I'm not sure what I'd like to do for most of them. AlttP has some of the most memorable bosses in the series, so there is a chance that if this project gains momentum, I might ask someone for help making some of the ALttP bosses... but I'm not sure, so don't count on it.

 

Lets talk about scripts I'll be using, if I do this. The obvious ones, like the NPC/ signpost, possibly, I'll be messing with BigEnemy, and that other script that lets you combine different enemies, but I don't know yet. I might use some ghosted enemies (setting up ghost.zh) like the beamos, and a few others. I don't think I'll be using the old, hole/ lava script, cause I can make it without. Other minor FFC scripts might be used, or requested, but I don't want to go crazy with scripts, and get lost, and not finish it.

 

At this rough stage, I am more focused on level design, and world building than the mechanics that won't be remade from ALttP. I'm cautious about using a lot of different scripts, but I want this to have some advanced features, but let's face it, this will not be a screen-for-screen remake. It is, what I like to call, a "spiritual demake".

 

Thoughts?

[Binx]

With the exception of Z3 scrolling, I don't see the point of removing a lot of these features, as they've already been scripted by other people and most are in the script DB.

[Dark Ice Dragon]

the other other , in my case "i don't know"

as i already post in another occasion i could like a overworld very similar to the original but not identical, 'cause i know this game like the palm of my hand, so i already know where all good things are hidden.

The idea of use something else in place of the mirror can be nice, it change a bit the things, and even a life-drain curse may be cool.

No ice magic ??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, i want freeze, pick-up, trow the foes and then turn to dust  whit the hammer!

s for the boss : it may be nice see how they work.

So in the end... i don't know, I think that I would try , but I'm not sure I'd like it, is impossible know before try.

Anyway make a quest like this will be an hard work..and sometimes players don't like remakes even if they are nice

[Anthus]

With the exception of Z3 scrolling, I don't see the point of removing a lot of these features, as they've already been scripted by other people and most are in the script DB.

 

This is true, but I am trying to be realistic with what I plan to accomplish, and I am not very good at using scripts. I can add them in, and use them, but I have virtually no experience messing with global scripts, or combining them. It scares me cause it is complicated to me, in some ways, and can break quests, or maybe various global scripts might not work right with each other. This would already be a huge project, even in Classic (512 OW screens, and 13 dungeons, plus all the caves), so unless it really get's rolling, I don't want to count on scripts more than where absolutely necessary. One could argue, those are necessary to make ALttP, but that's why I wanted to make it clear that this would be a simplified version.

 

One thing I have been thinking about though was the sheer size of the world. In ZC, it will be massive, and may become boring to wander around. Each world uses 2 full 16x8 maps. That's two 256 screen worlds, making a total of 512 screens. Considering 256 of those (the lightworld) would only house 4 dungeons, it might get boring. Well, at least we have fast scrolling now.

 

the other other , in my case "i don't know"

as i already post in another occasion i could like a overworld very similar to the original but not identical, 'cause i know this game like the palm of my hand, so i already know where all good things are hidden.

The idea of use something else in place of the mirror can be nice, it change a bit the things, and even a life-drain curse may be cool.

No ice magic ??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, i want freeze, pick-up, trow the foes and then turn to dust  whit the hammer!

s for the boss : it may be nice see how they work.

So in the end... i don't know, I think that I would try , but I'm not sure I'd like it, is impossible know before try.

Anyway make a quest like this will be an hard work..and sometimes players don't like remakes even if they are nice

 

To be honest, if I was going to bother with any huge global script, besides ghost.zh, and bigenemy, It would be ice tiles/ ice magic. I want to have someone help me step by step with combining global scripts, but it is too early for that at this time. I really just want to keep the project within the scope of something that I know I can complete. I know myself, and I get unmotivated, flustered, and lose focus when I try to make stuff overly complicated.

 

The problem is, I guess, calling it 'AlttP'. That will bring to mind a lot of expectations from die-hard fans (myself included, I'd be miffed if a ALttP quest didn't have ice magic, or throwable rocks). When you sit down, and compare all the mechanics of the engines, ALttP is way more advanced than ZC, or the GB games, so it might be better to call it something else altogether, while still trying to capture the spirit of ALttP in a more lighthearted way.

 

thanks for the feedback, guys

[Moonbread]

Funny thing is, King_Aquamentus' Simple LA was making me wanna do pretty much the same thing.  I'll be rooting for you takin' a go at it.

[Mani Kanina]

I'd be interested, that being said you're cutting out some major mechanics. The magic mirror is essential to a link to the past because many overworld puzzles hinges on it. A scripted simple version of is not hard to make, and I think it would be something essential to providing an alttp experience.

[Anthus]

Yeah, that is a good point. Even though my sword triggered warps could still work, the magic mirror was a pretty important item in ALttP. It also lets you dip out of dungeons real quick (or by complete accident).

 

Here's the thing. If I take the time to understand how some of these advanced features can work in ZC, the end result would be much better. I just don't know if I can commit to it. I'd rather commit to something simpler, but have a better chance at finishing it, then promising all this awesome stuff, getting people hyped, then quitting. I don't have the best track record for completed projects that people may have actually cared about, lol. I don't want to let people down, but I also want to make something I know I can manage basically. I'd be willing to ask, or accept help from others who are more well-versed in scripting, and compiling, if they'd be so kind, and if they are interested in this project.

 

That said, if I had to pick three things from that list of "can't's" I would want the Magic Mirror, True Ice Magic, and Z3 Scrolling ledges which can be jumped from. Picking up, and throwing stuff is neat, but in the big picture, it's not that important (unless you realize that a pot is equal to a hit from the golden tempered sword. What's with Zelda games giving random, non-sword objects super OP stats?)

[ywkls]

You aren't the first person to attempt this, though mine was before scripting and had some extremely bad graphical choices and lots of bugs. Not to mention, not using the Classic tileset. (I'm not really sure what tileset it was in.)

 

I've been thinking about adding in things like scripts and cutscenes to mine off and on since I started learning how to do it, but the hardest part for me would be the graphical overhaul.

 

I'd love to see a quest (even if it isn't mine) that tried to recreate LTTP, but it would indeed require a large quantity of work. (I think mine took several years.) If there was any interest in updating mine to have better graphics or a better tileset, I could probably do most of the scripting for the various things found in this quest. (I've already attempted a large number of them.)

 

As for working on a new version, using an older tileset; I might be willing to contribute some there are well.

[Russ]

I'd enjoy seeing LttP remade in a simpler tileset. That said, I think cutting out features like the magic mirror would take away the game's central mechanic, and definitely shouldn't be done. I know scripting can be daunting, but this particular one is simple. Heck, Bagel used one in Quest 744, I believe, so the script already exists. Furthermore, I'd like to see the quest not be a simple carbon copy of LttP with new (or old) graphics. A few changes here, a new area there, etc would go a long way in making the quest feel fresh without ruining the spirit of the project.

[Naru]

While Extra-Stuff can ruin a remake, to make a remake simpler while keeping the quality should be the harder choice. Only simplifying is not enough, even if it is still interesting, to just play alttp should be the better in that case. Though I am pretty sure you can do it. Never played Stone Tables, but if you manage it why not include the BS-alttp?

[Binx]

BTW, as far as the Moon Pearl is concerned, it actually would be pretty simple to script a version that works exactly like the LttP version, depending on how much subscreen work you want to do. You could store all Link's equipment items in arrays, but for some reason, arrays seem to be rather daunting for most people (myself included), or you could make dummy items that sit under the real one on the subscreen. Then, use an item bundle script to add the dummy item to your inventory when you pick up the regular item (could also be done with a simple global, actually) The dummy items (or array) would then be used to keep track of which items Link has picked up. If Link doesn't have the moon pearl, and is on a dark world map, it would take all of his items away, then when he's in the light world, or has the moon pearl, give all of his items back, based on which dummy items he has. I know this method works, because I did the same thing for switching equipment items between multiple characters in the first versions of the Sunday Funeral quest, and included a guide on how to do it in the subscreen tutorial. (If you want to send me a list of all the items you have in game, I can write up the scripts for you, using dummy items, but you'd have to change the values of the variables, yourself)


Edit: Also, you could probably just disable the A and B buttons if you're in the dark world and don't have the pearl. Probably a lot simpler

Edited by Binx, 18 April 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Timelord]

You know, two years ago, I made a Z3 mirror script for Obderhode, that is rather faithful to the Z3 system, and is easy to use. I'm unsure if your decision to strip it from the quest is at all based on needing usable code, or a personal decision. You may use it, if you wish.

I could also give you a moon pearl script in under fifteen minutes. Make Link invisible, draw a buny sprite; or use a ring LTM to change his sprite, and disable his weapon inputs, unless he has a given item on specific DMaps.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 18 April 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[trudatman]

yes, but you won't finish it.

[Binx]

I think the problem with these kinds of games, and the reason they're rarely completed comes down to one simple thing: Making it worth playing over the original. "De-makes" of games like OoT, SS, MM, TP, and WW could theoretically work well, because the perspective and combat systems are completely different (but they'd probably work better on a LttP-based engine, because of the scrolling style), so changes in items, layout and puzzles work well; but the Z1 combat system is very similar to the other 2D titles. This causes a problem, because the primary engine and gameplay is the primary focus of the Zelda series, not the story. And I say this, because the bigwigs at Nintendo specifically stated that the reason they kept the timeline secret, even from their own developers, was so that the developers wouldn't waste time worrying about how the story fits,when the gameplay is the important aspect, so not using enough scripts and going *too* old school can really detract from the overall game. Rather than being a fun, alternate version, they become boring, stripped-down versions. If you *really* wanted to make an ALttP remake stripped down for ZC use, I'd recommend making your own version of Hyrule and just reusing the basic plot, changing minor details, here and there. Like how Ocarina of Time is basically a retelling of the ALttP plot. 

[Anthus]

I'll make a longer reply later, but binx has a good point. I was leaning towards making some changes to. I'm going to be testing some combinations of scripts in the next few weeks, and I will see what works.

About the magic mirror, I'd like to use it but I'm not looking forward to making sure it works perfectly on all 512 screens, or at least the dark world screens lol