21 replies to this topic

[ywkls]

Here's my thoughts on the dungeons of my game and what I'm going to be trying to accomplish in each of them. I may get some more ideas later, but this is what I have so far.

First up is the Reptilian Redoubt. This is intended to be one of the first places you'll naturally go in the game, so it won't be too hard. But, I have a plan to make things a bit more interesting by making transitions between certain rooms require you to go through pipes that lead to a series of different spots in the other area. Which would then allow you to get items you couldn't otherwise acquire, or reach doors not normally accessible or just find yourself in an apparent dead end... until you get the bombs. I can think of all sorts of ways to use this dynamic, forcing you to learn which pipe goes where and requiring multiple visits to the same room in order to get anywhere.

Next is the Gerudo Stronghold. This is going to be a slightly different dungeon. It will feature a design I call 3-D game in 2-D. What does this mean? Simply put, each horizontal set of rooms will comprise one floor of the dungeon, with the row above it being the next floor. This will mean you may have to drop from one floor to another to progress, or find a stairway that leads to a section of another floor that you can't reach otherwise. I'm also thinking of a different sort of boss for this... a multi-stage boss that is part puzzle, part enemy. On the first two or three stages (haven't made up my mind yet) you'll be bombarded with increasing numbers of fireballs while trying to solve a block puzzle and unable to hurt the boss. Each time you solve one, you'll drop to the floor below. At the end, you'll face the actual boss.

For the hollow stump, expect there to be a lot of paths that are overgrown with vines. Since you'll only be able to have the candle that can be used once whenever you enter the dungeon, you'll have to decide which path to take when you enter a room. Some won't lead to places you can go yet, forcing you to backtrack and try again. Eventually, you'll get the second Candle, which will let you seek out the end of that dungeon.

The Forgotten Tomb is naturally going to be infested with Stalfos, Ghini and Gibdos. I haven't settled on a dynamic for it yet. Any thoughts would be appreciated...

The Daylit Crevasse will have some paths blocked by fallen rocks, which you'll need the Pegasus Boots you get there to bypass. I may also use the same method of room organization as in the Gerudo Stronghold (each row represents a floor of the dungeon). And I think I'll make it where you have to open shafts in the floor to let the light reach the bottom, opening the way to the end.

The Windswept Jail will have a lot of locked paths and warps. Why would a jail have warps? Obviously these are paths dug by prisoners trying to escape. And the convicts in question are monsters. Without the boomerang to pass through the bars of some cells, you can't get to the end. Which is why you get it here.

Isolated Isle, home of the hookshot. Expect impassable rivers, some platforms you can only reach from one side which let you cross to somewhere else and other stuff I'll think of when I get around to coming up with it. (I'm really better at this sort of thing when actually designing an area.)

The Abandoned Villa is a house, with a large chimney. You'll have to destroy certain obstacles there with the hammer left behind by the previous owner and use clues found in its library to solve at least one puzzle. Yeah, I'm putting in at least one tiered secret where the solution won't be obvious.

Noxious Marsh will have the Flippers (finally) but expect to have to fight your way to them through everything that the area can throw at you. This area will also feature the flowing water script by MoscowModder to regulate your travel through different sections of the marsh once you do have the flippers.

Floating Labyrinth, don't fall! Pits. Lots of pits. To lower floors or just to hurt you. Take your pick. Some rooms will change shape only after defeating all the enemies or solving a puzzle, which will then let you cross them where you couldn't before. Oh yeah, and spikes. This place holds the Magic Cape (Boots) after all.

Volcanic Fissure has lava, who would've guessed? You'll have to change the way it flows it in some areas by solving puzzles in others. Then you'll have to go back. Wash, rinse, repeat. To reach the end requires the Roc's Feather.

Eerie Catacomb is another tomb, but one with false walls. More to the point, those walls might contain foes (like armos) who will swarm you if you just try to pass through them. Some walls will look like they can be passed through, but guess what! They're fake. Thankfully, the Lens of Truth is here to guide you.

Turtle Rock... I'm thinking I may use the beam of light script (once I test it and figure out how it works). Oh, and several places that need super bombs. And a three floor dungeon/maze. If I'm a bit hazy on the details, it is because this is near the end of the game and I haven't thought about it that much until now.

Snowfall Resort was once the perfect place to get away from it all... now it is locked in a frozen embrace and you have to seriously heat things up to get anywhere. There will be a number of furnaces scattered throughout the area, each one melting an icy barrier to your progress. For some obstacles, only the Wand and Tome of Knowledge (Magic Book) can get you through.

Temple of Time... I'm going to wait until later to develop this further. Each version will be designed where it can be beaten much earlier than the final one.

That's it for the dungeons... I'll put my thoughts on my sidequests up in a short period of time (probably by the end of the week).

[ywkls]

Alright... now my thoughts on my game's sidequests...

 

One of the things I've decided to change is the collectible system. Remember the Gold Skulltulas from Ocarina of Time? Well, I'm bringing them back but in a different way. In this game, the Gold Skulltula is viewed as an endangered species due to somebody hunting them to the brink of extinction many years ago. (Hmm, I wonder who that could be?)

 

Fortunately, a program to revive them is underway. You'll find them under rocks and bushes and behind cracked walls and well... everywhere at all hours of the day. Instead of defeating them, you just have to find and collect them. Once you have all of them (no gradual reward system, sorry) you can turn them in.

 

The second sidequest is the Golden Pelt Hunt. A merchant greedily wants to gather all of the golden pelts held by rare monsters around the world. Some are just Golden versions of the normal monsters, while others will be more powerful... even boss level. I'll use scripts to set them up where they will appear once when you visit a screen and when they die, you get a Golden Pelt. Since these are actual monsters rather than innocent Gold Skulltulas, you'll be ridding the world of genuine menace and will be rewarded for your work.

 

The third is the Mysterious Treasure Boxes. These blue boxes are scattered throughout the world. Each one only opens at a particular time of day. Otherwise, it is sunk into the ground. Once you find one, you're going to need a key to open it. And that's where the sidequest part comes in. Getting these keys is no easy task. There are just as many as the boxes, which means you could save them all up; then go around the world opening them all at once. But until you do, you won't know what each box holds. Save that hard-earned key, or take a chance or getting just 1 rupee? Most will have good rewards, but a few will be duds so that you'll have to take your chances when opening one.

 

The fourth is Fateful Meetings. At the end of Balance of Nature, a new guest star is introduced.

Spoiler

It's Nayru, from Oracle of Ages.

 

After parting ways, you will find this character at various places around the world helping people or just enjoying the sights. Participating in these events has no immediate reward, although if you get them all I can think of a way to both: give you a rare item and a different ending.

 

The fifth is the Divided Couple. A husband was caught in the turmoil that has engulfed Hyrule and now needs your help to get home. Usually this will involve finding a rare item and giving it to him. These items will generally located nearby, though some searching and puzzle-solving will likely be involved. In some ways, this will be like an extended Trading Game but with more story. And some of the tasks will involve defeating enemies, or spending rupees. If you are able to find all of the locations where he's gotten himself stuck and get him out of trouble, you'll get a reward.

 

As you can tell, these sidequests will be spread out over the entire game. I'll probably have an ordinary Trading Game as well. On the next update to this topic, look for some details on the story and possibly some screenshots from the first dungeon. (Once I get around to making it...)

[ywkls]

For those who don't want story spoilers... look elsewhere. I'm assuming that if you're reading this, it's because you're either interested in this quest or liked Balance of Nature and want to see what I have in store for part 2. I could put things in spoiler tags... and will even though people can just click on them and see what they say. (Like is possible in my previous post.) So, here's the main plot.

 

Spoiler

We start in the distant past as the Oracles gather. Din has learned of the trouble that will one day befall Holodrum, but Nayru mysteriously faces a danger now. Farore advises her to seek out the Hero who will save Holodrum in the future, which leads to the scene at the end of the first game. Then, the main villain of this chapter shows up, surprises Link and makes off with all of your items; leaving you to fend for yourself.

 

This event is showcased here.

 

 

Unlike most Zelda games, you won't be rescuing the Princess. Instead, your objective is to get back your stuff so you can find the place the bad guy is hiding and keep him from making Hyrule a rotten place to live. And to do that, you'll also be collecting 6 pieces of the triforce (twice as many as before) and helping out the locals. The actual plot involving Labrynna isn't even going to be touched on until this game's ending (and then only in the secret one).

 

Naturally, you won't find everything in the open, in a shop or in a treasure box hiding somewhere in the world. Nope, the game's major items are locked up in dungeons designed to keep you from reaching their precious contents. Fortunately, Zelda is free to lend you a much-needed sword; so your adventure can begin.

 

I promised some screenshots of my first dungeon, but I can do one better.

Presenting maps of the first two dungeons (layers and enemies pending)!

 

First, the Reptilian Redoubt.

 

 

Next, the Gerudo Stronghold.

 

 

These two dungeons are actually both designed to be first dungeons, with no Triforce in either; just major items. Once you complete them, you'll be able to access more dungeons. My general formula will be to vary which of the available dungeons has a piece of triforce and to require visiting those that don't to reach some that do.

 

I'll probably update again once I've gotten some more dungeons done.

[ywkls]

Work on the design for the 3rd and 4th dungeons isdone. I'm not going to post the full maps this time, since I think that would give too much away. (Although whether anything could be figured out is debatable at best.)

 

The 3rd dungeon as you'll recall is the Hollow Stump. In this one, I made certain areas where you started out near the treasure box but had to go around the long way; fighting enemies and solving puzzles to actually reach it. And, I've included a new puzzle which I was able to get scripted thanks to justin.

 

This puzzle requires you to hit a series of switches in a certain order or they will all reset. If you do it correctly, the secret will trigger permanently, letting you pass. Here's a screen that shows what a room with this setup would look like.

 

 

Here's the clue that will be on that sign when you enter this room. (It's a logic puzzle.) The first switch is on the left side. The second switch is on the right. The third switch is not on the right. The fourth switch is not at the top. The first and 2nd switch are not in the same row or column.

 

Spoiler

The solution is: 3 2

1 4

 

Then there is the 4th dungeon, the Forsaken Tomb. I'll definitely be putting the Redeads from Enemy of the Month #10 in there. This dungeon will feature doors that aren't doors, but warps in disguise. This screen shows what I mean.

 

 

The two doors at the top and the one at the side will spit you out in different screens than the one next to this room. Not only that, but sometimes the correct door to use won't be easy to spot intuitively. For example, on this screen you go in the top left door and come out at the bottom right. But if you then enter the top right door, you'll return to the top left side. Only by going back in the bottom right door will you reach another location.

 

Just from designing it alone, I felt confused at times.

 

And that's what I've done so far. One of these has a piece of Triforce and both require you to get the main item from the previous dungeons to complete them. Next up are the Daylit Crevasse (whose shape I'm probably going to change) and the Windswept Jail. I'll update again when I've completed them.

[WindRobe]

really nice dingeons therer ywkls cant to play this quest.

[SyrianBallaS]

Yeah man your coming a long way, I told you making original quests were better than those abominations.

[ywkls]

Yeah man your coming a long way, I told you making original quests were better than those abominations.

 

Thanks for the compliment on my current work. As for everything I've done until now, I consider them to be valuable learning experiences. Every quest I've created has taught me something about how to do things in Zelda Classic.

 

Moving on to current developments. The 5th and 6th dungeons are done. I'm probably going to create custom bosses for both. Who knows? I might actually try to script something. (Or just reuse old ideas...)

 

The Daylit Crevasse is going to be significantly different from what I described in earlier posts, but it is still going to be interesting and complicated. Almost the entire dungeon is going to be in Sideview Gravity. Here's a sample screenshot.

 

 

I'm using the Sideview Ladder script uploaded by justin to accomplish this, combined with the Pegasus Boots script he helped to create to power the dungeon's main item. There will be some rocks only they can break as well as gaps that require their use to cross.

 

As for the Windswept Jail, a preview of that was seen in SOTW #500. Here it is again, in case you forgot.

 

 

There are only slight changes to the final version, including removal of a pot that might cause a tile error and changing the graphics for the bars slightly. As some have noted, this dungeon is somewhat complex. That's putting it mildly.

 

At one point you have to backtrack to hit a boomerang switch to lower pegs to reach a door which takes you to another boomerang switch that guards the door to the boss. You'll find yourself warping here and there and everywhere; back and forth in search of keys to open doors to get the boss key, which is needed to get the boomerang and reach the end of the dungeon.

 

If there are any suggestions about what to do for these bosses, I'm willing to listen. I should also note that the next destination for your journey is a bit up in the air at the moment. While Isolated Isle becomes available once you finish getting the Pegasus Boots, so does the Abandoned Villa, potentially the Noxious Marsh and the Floating Labyrinth. This is because the entrance to the Abandoned Villa and Floating Labyrinth are near to each other, as is the route to the Noxious Marsh.

 

One way it occurred to me to limit your choices would be to require certain items to reach various objectives. For example, the area near the Abandoned Villa can only be reached at Twilight. It could be that the door to that place requires the Boomerang. And maybe the Noxious Marsh nearby then requires the Hammer you get in the Abandoned Villa. And the Floating Labyrinth might only be accessible with the Hookshot from Isolated Isle.

 

Currently, each dungeon requires the acquisition of the items in both previous ones to complete; a pattern I intend to follow as I work my way through the rest of the game. I currently estimate completion of all dungeon design by the end of March. I'll next update after the next two dungeons are done.

[ywkls]

Well, my work on Isolated Isle and the Abandoned Villa took a bit longer than I anticipated but I finally finished them both today. I blame this on Quest Maker's Block (presuming there is such a thing), plus my ambitiously trying to create some scripts on my own and failing miserably. (None of which are necessary to this quest, so now that I've got that out of my system I can move on.)

 

Here's a screenshot of Isolated Isle so you'll know what to expect.

 

 

You'll find a lot of places like this with switches for barriers you aren't near yet that need to be hit in order to allow you to progress later on in the dungeon. Also, you'll notice that portions of the floor are elevated. This will result in you visiting some rooms multiple times on different elevations to get all of the secrets within.

 

On this screen alone, you enter from the left; must hit the boomerang trigger on the right and go down the stairs below you. The ones on the right are accessible later, leading to a key. The ones in the middle won't be visited until much later, but if you don't lower that barrier now you'll have to come back here in order to do so since those stone walls near it block the boomerang except from the the elevated area.

 

Next up is the Abandoned Villa.

 

 

I decided to take the idea used in the 2nd dungeon and turn it up a notch. In this screen, that door that leads to the boomerang switch is locked on the other side, so you have to come in here and take those stairs to eventually reach a key. Once you can reach the switch, you'll then be able to go up the other staircase, which leads to the key for the other door here. 

 

Now that these are done, it is on to the Noxious Marsh and the Floating Labyrinth. The former will be designed as though it was part of the overworld, while the later is in the clouds and will feature floors that you can fall through and get hurt. Hopefully, I'll be able to finish them more rapidly than the last two dungeons.

[ywkls]

Wow, has it really been almost a month since I last updated this? I guess time does fly when you are occupied with other things in life that take precedence over Zelda Classic. I'd like to say that isn't going to happen again, but I can't offer any guarantees right now. Maybe in a week or so, I'll have a better idea of how much of a delay to expect. I have completed some work, though.

 

I've finished work on the Noxious Marsh, a flooded cave where for half of the dungeon you must maneuver around on land, overcoming obstacles, defeating enemies and finding stuff to progress. Then for the second half, you have the flippers which let you complete the dungeon. Here's a screenshot.

 

 

That box there can't be reached unless you exit through that lower left door and circle around; which requires access to a warp you won't be able to get to unless you go through the door Link just came out of and follow that path. Of course, getting around will be much easier once you have the Flippers.

 

I haven't started on the Floating Labyrinth yet, although it will probably be the first dungeon to feature my new Scripted Traps. I think that's appropriate since you get the Magic Cape (read Boots) here. Anticipate dodging large objects, bouncing balls of death and avoiding pits, hitting switches to change the configuration of the room so as to reach new areas and certain areas that can only be accessed by dropping down from the floor above.

 

Once again, my apologies for my neglect of this project. I'm not about to give up on it anytime soon, I just don't know if I will be able to give it as much time as I have been in the past.

[ywkls]

One thing I have learned working on the Floating Labyrinth is never, ever start designing your dungeon from the middle and try to work you way backwards. It just makes the process of creating a complex, two-floor, confusing dungeon even harder. But, I'm finally done. You've already seen one screenshot, in Screenshot Challenge Accepted # 69, but here it is again.

 

 

And here's another screenshot, just because I felt like it.

 

 

A few things I should note as I prepare to start on my next work, the Volcanic Fissure and the Eerie Catacomb. First, I completely forgot my original plans for the Noxious Marsh to include the flowing water script. But no worries! I have plans to use it inside the Volcanic Fissure.

 

Since I intended to have underwater rivers that would have to be occasionally diverted anyways, I can think of a few ways to use it.  Like having a stream that leads to a pit, or to a lake of boiling lava. If you don't get out of the current at the right point, you'd get hurt. But by activating secrets, the direction of the water can be altered; allowing passage to new areas. To me this makes more sense than what I was planning before, since you don't get the Flippers until the end of the previous dungeon.

 

As for the second dungeon, my plans for it remain unchanged. It is just that I'm almost done with the primary dungeon design process, which will mean tackling the hardest of them all. My multi-part final dungeon.

 

Based on my activity recently and tendency to get distracted by other important matters, I'm going to guess that a week per dungeon is the fastest that I'm going to be able to churn these out. I know that's a lot slower than I was originally planning, but I can't think of any way to speed matters up. That means that it would probably be June or July before all of the dungeons are complete. (Ouch!)

 

I'll continue to update this topic after every dungeon (or 2 if I get them both finished quickly).

[ywkls]

It took a little more than a week, but the Volcanic Fissure is finally done. I think this was another case where I really made this dungeon larger than it needed to be, forcing the addition of locked doors, puzzles and warps to other areas. Here's a screenshot of one area I really like.

 

 

On this screen, you can't simply swim right and get out where the door is. Thanks to the flowing water script, you have to drop down that hole to a lower level and find a warp there to come back here, then go out the right side and get the key to the door there. Oh and yes, you will have to come back here once you get the Roc's Feather.

 

Next is an example of an area where two different routes must be used to get through the same screen.

 

 

When you first come here, you will have to swim under the bridge to reach a different area. Only much later will you get to those stairs that will let you cross to the far side. I used this dynamic a couple of times in this dungeon, just because I felt like it.

 

Next up is the Eerie Catacomb. It is slightly smaller than the Volcanic Fissure (only 2 floors instead of three) so hopefully it won't take nearly as long to do.

[ywkls]

Had a burst of creativity today (read a lot of time to spend with nothing to do) and finished the Eerie Catacomb. I'll probably be making some changes later, such as introducing elements that require the use of the Lens of Truth, but I'm happy with it for now.

 

Here's a screenshot of the entrance.

 

 

In case you haven't guessed, yes this is another of my patented 2-floor overlapping dungeon/mazes (patent pending). It may also seem as if there isn't a way to get anywhere in this room. However, there is a passage; just not one that can be seen with the naked eye. (And no, it isn't a wall that can be bombed or a NES-style walkthrough wall.) Instead, that skeleton on the right isn't solid and you can pass through it to the next room over.

 

I'll probably have a number of other rooms with similar setups, along with some where it looks like there is a door but it's fake and where no door appears but you can pass through anyways. At least one puzzle will incorporate the Lens of Truth, although I may have to get the script I'm currently using for that changed.

 

That means I can move on to my next two dungeons, Turtle Rock and Snowfall Resort. The latter is smaller, but may end up being just as complex as the other considering what I have in mind for it. As for Turtle Rock, I haven't quite decided whether I'm going to use the Light Beam script or not.

 

What is most important is that this means I am closing in on the end of the development of my dungeons. Besides them, only the final dungeon remains. Of course, it is much, much, much larger. Four separate dungeons that must each be defeated in any order followed by a four-floor True Form dungeon. I can hardly wait to get started, because that means the hardest part of making this game will be over.

[ywkls]

After working for more than a month the Snowfall Resort is finally done today. But don't worry I had a good excuse for delaying progress this time. That would be scripting enemies! Yes, although these foes may lack some of the finesse found in foes that use ghost.zh, they are still worthy foes who will be added to the quest.

 

Enemies created so far:

 

In database-

Blind the Thief- i'll probably be adding him to the Abandoned Villa.

Nightmare Final Form- Seems right for either the Eerie Catacomb or the Forgotten Tomb.

Big Moldorm- He's going over in the Hollow Stump.

 

Created but not uploaded-

Agahnim- He's probably going to be in Turtle Rock.

 

Conceived but not created-

Barinade from Ocarina of TIme.

Morpha from Ocarina of Time.

Bongo Bongo from Ocarina of Time.

Free-roaming Gohma as in Ocarina of time.

 

Here's some screenshots from my recently finished dungeon. The first is my recent winner of Screenshot of the Week!

 

 

The only detail I've changed in this area is the addition of shadows under that elevated platform.

 

Another feature will be a large, outdoor area. While relatively barren on the bottom floor it gets plenty of visits from the top. Here's a screenshot.

 

 

Next up is my next to last dungeon, Turtle Rock. I'm still having trouble with the concept of this one, perhaps because it is three floors long. I don't know whether I need to make it smaller, rethink the shape or what but so far I have no ideas either for the layout or the nature of the puzzles that will be found within.

 

Which leads up to an announcement that I hate to make. The final dungeon will not be as big as originally planned. (I'll give you a moment to mull that over.) I'm still having the 4 different versions in all 4 times of day. Each one will require you to acquire items and solve puzzles in the others to progress and eventually finish all 4. Once you defeat all four, the final form will become available. But instead of a massive, four-floor dungeon I'm paring it down to only one floor.

 

The basic reason for this is that I want to get done with the majority of the game before I lose enthusiasm and just want to finish the stupid thing so that I can start playing it. This usually sets in about the point that I'm almost done with enemy placement, so I know that by the time Turtle Rock and the Temple of Time are done with design I'm going to be itching to start my first run-through.

 

Besides them, all houses and caves still need to be done; most layers and all events still have to be finished. However, I know from previous experience that those parts won't take me as long as making dungeons since my enthusiasm will increase because I'll know the end is near. Enemy placement usually takes the longest and since I'm scripting a number of my own foes this time I may be delayed again while I create them.

 

I hope to be done with my dungeons by the end of this month, but don't count on it.

[Avaro]

I'd make the shadows even more darker in that one screenshot. Besides that, this all seems really interesting. Also, I'm just like you, in the sense that creating events, enemies, bosses and other features are easier to do than creating dungeons, but my worst thing are overworlds, which is why I like to finish them as the first thing.

Edited by Avataro, 18 June 2015 - 03:17 PM.

[ywkls]

I'd make the shadows even more darker in that one screenshot. Besides that, this all seems really interesting. Also, I'm just like you, in the sense that creating events, enemies, bosses and other features are easier to do than creating dungeons, but my worst thing are overworlds, which is why I like to finish them as the first thing.

 

Actually,that first one is the original; unedited screenshot. It's easier for me to keep it as it was when I originally uploaded it than it is to alter the shot, go into Zelda Classic and visit that room; then take the shot again. As for the second, I haven't created shadows for it yet.

 

I honestly love creating dungeons. I have a knack for making things complex based on a few simple ideas and the basic shape of the dungeon. What I have trouble with is being patient while I finish up my quest.

 

Speaking of which, I've decided that Turtle Rock is still going to be 3 floors; just that the whole thing is going to be a lot smaller. And I have an idea about how to make the whole thing one giant puzzle whose objective is the treasures you'll need to reach the end.

 

Overworlds don't give me too much trouble. I started this one with only 7 screens in my previous game, then expanded organically from there to fill up two whole maps. The other topic for this project has them if anyone is interested. Sometime tomorrow, I'll probably start work on my penultimate dungeon.

Edited by ywkls, 18 June 2015 - 04:34 PM.