20 replies to this topic

[Lightwulf]

Okay, here's the deal:

My first quest is on the verge of being released.  One of my beta testers noticed that the eastern area of my Underworld (which is similar to an overworld, but is underground) is pretty bland.  Not that it doesn't look good; he said it wasn't very fun to explore.  I'm thinking about adding some character to that area.

 

I already have some nice areas to the west: Boulder Fields (calling that Classic rounded-mountain thing a boulder, and using both 2x2 tile version and single tile version), White Woods (misty area with all-white trees and a graveyard), and Lavic Lake (an Underworld version of a lake with a peninsula in the center and unwalkable lava).  I also have a vast portion of the north part of the map called Stalactite Caverns with custom-made stalagmites all over the place.  (Yeah, I know, it should probably be called Stalagmite Caverns, but I like the other name better.)  Currently, the rest of the Underworld is characterized by purple trees, rocks, and stalagmites scattered everywhere.

 

I'm thinking about adding character to the eastern/southeastern area of the Underworld, and I'd like some ideas of what I could do.  Here are the rules:

• The Underworld, as you could imagine, is dark.  It's deep underground, so there's no sun, wind or rain.
• Nothing is green (as a result of no sunlight).
• The layout must work around "mountains" (meaning the walls of the Underworld/cavern).
• No water. (The water colors of the overworld palette were all changed to red tones, so there's just lava down there.)

So far, I only have one idea: an underground desert.  I haven't come up with any details of it yet, though.

 

What do you think?  Any ideas?

[Avaro]

I have an idea. Place some secret caves around the area, which lead to themed challenges. Those challenges could be anything,  from block puzzle challenges, to trap mazes, warp mazes or simple battle challenges. After completing one of those challenges, you are rewarded with rupees, bonus items or whatever. That would be fun.

[Demonlink]

So far, I only have one idea: an underground desert.  I haven't come up with any details of it yet, though.

 

What do you think?  Any ideas?

So far, you have helped me, now it's my turn How about this, you can make a bonus dungeon there, with an underground desert, sure! But how will it look like? Think about it something like the sands in the main overworld (if you have a desert in it), are flowing to the underworld. This is why there is a desert underground, kinda like sandholes where you sink and appear here. Adding to what Avataro said, you can make a cave system there that leads to some reward, maybe a bonus dungeon like I mentioned, where the item could be a new sword/tunic, I dunno. Or maybe a desert/wasteland/graveyard, in a few words, an abandoned/haunted area... 

 

I hope you can come up with something creative

[Avaro]

You could also have more houses/caves with talking NPCs there. They can help give some personality to the underworld.

[MarinaraSauce]

Maybe you could have a fortress that's the base of operations for the most common Underworld enemy.

[Astromeow]

I have an idea

 

Let's kidnap a gypsy dancer lady 

 

and then sink a temple of seasons into the underworld

 

what a brilliant idea

 

logic

[Lightwulf]

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys!  (I still haven't decided yet.)

 

Just so you know, there's mostly water above that particular part on the overworld and there are no desert islands in my quest.

  Plus, I don't want to create another way to get into the Underworld; I already have three, one of which is a whirlpool.

Also FYI, regarding items, all of them are placed in the quest.    (That's been part of my dilemma.)  I would only be able to place rupees as rewards.  (That'll change when I make the DX version in 2.50.)

 

 

@Avataro: There are plenty of cavern walls where I could place secret caves.  Should I make them all bombable? requiring the bomb to open them?  (I've put plenty of bomb upgrades in another place, so that would be feasible.)

Challenges... Hmmm...  I'll have to think...  I've placed a few secret caves in the Underworld already, but with nothing more than finding rupees in a single room or finding a monster to talk to.

(2nd post:) Yeah, I have no NPCs there right now.  I could add some.

 

@Demonlink: Regarding the desert, I was thinking that it could be a desert because of the heat of the lava in the area drying everything out, so the justification for it has been thought of already.  Now I just have to decide the details.

I already have a kind-of haunted area, the White Woods, but that's a nice thought. (Haunted Wasteland... Hmmm...  I'll have to keep that in mind!)

 

@GrantGreif: Now that's a splendid idea!  I actually already have, in an upper corner of the map, an entrance to a Monster Village, but I don't have a fortress yet!  Maybe a more natural fortress, though.  Since this quest is being made with 2.10, I can't make my own monsters yet, though I've recently created an NPC of a unique monster; so, the most common would be Black Moblins, Lynels, and Goriyas.  Hmmm...

 

@Astromeow:  Interesting idea!  Not sure if I'll use it.  (BTW, I already have something in place having to do with a girl being kidnapped in the Underworld! )

 

Here's what I'm thinking now:

1. I'll make it a desert/arid area with the word "wasteland" in its name (I'm sure I'll think of a name).  I'm not sure how much lava I should include in the area.
2. Based off of Avataro's idea(s), and the fact that I have included enough bomb upgrades to where you could hold up to 48 bombs (keep in mind 2.10 didn't have bomb bags, just upgrade rooms), I could do a sort of bomb maze.  The main issues with this is that I can only put one secret per screen and only one tile warp/side warp per screen.  I guess I could include other puzzles on the screen along with the bomb portions.  Plus, I could always find one of my heart pieces that I've placed, place rupees there in its place, and put a heart piece at the end of the bomb maze.  Also, I could do something like Zelda II's maze. ... Oh, I just remembered that I can have more than one tile warp per screen if I use direct warps, but still they would all have to warp to the same screen.
3. I can place more NPCs and establish a kind of community of monsters, or if not a community, then a desert fortress with natural obstacles (because they're not really great at building).

These are my thoughts.  Any suggestions on these?

Edited by Lightwulf, 01 May 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Legen Dary]

The best way to get inspiration for this would be watching some nature documentaries, I think.

 

Also, can you make new tiles or do you plan to work in these new adds only with current ones? Because you can just create your own subterranean nature. It has been proven that life is possible without the sun (at least underwater, as far as I know). You can also work with how temperature works at very high or low degrees (use your imagination), and... I don't know, maybe the remains of an ancient civilization (Atlantida, anyone?)

 

Treat your underworld as if you wanted to communicate a real place. If you make the place different and interesting by itself you'll have half of the work done. It doesn't matter if you start with visual ideas only, because those ideas may lead you to different mechanics and gameplay concepts.

 

Still, I don't have anything concrete, and I don't know if at this point you're still open to work that much and to expend that much time. It's all up to you, and I'm sure your quest will be very god anyway.

[Astromeow]

 

@Astromeow:  Interesting idea!  Not sure if I'll use it.  (BTW, I already have something in place having to do with a girl being kidnapped in the Underworld! )

 

 

Wasnt my idea. It was this dude's

[SirKazuma]

Maybe some sort of ravine type area, where you have to work your way down using a series of cliffs, when you reach the bottom, there is many bones laying about. There are a few shallow pools of lava, but the area is mainly centered around an ancient city, all of the buildings are destroyed, this area has a very grim feel to it. I'm not sure about names or anything but yeah, let me know if you like the idea!

[Lightwulf]

Well, it looks like I'd better mention another thing.  I've already implemented an ancient civilization in ... another portion of the underworld.  Not a city actually on the Underworld, though; it's mainly a long passageway accessible from the Underworld that has an ancient city in one portion of it.  However, that doesn't preclude me from using those tiles again.

 

@Legen Dary: Ooh!   Interesting!  I actually have seen footage of deep sea exploration.  Quite intriguing!

Hmmm...  Well, I'm not against doing some more spriting, but I don't want to do a whole lot of it at this point.  As it is, the Underworld currently has purple trees that somehow manage to grow without sunlight, hence their other-worldly color.

Thanks for the suggestions!  That gives me ideas for what I could do when I'm able to make my own enemies...

 

@Astromeow: Yeah, I figure!  (I haven't played that game myself, but I'm at least aware of it.)

 

@SirKazuma: That sounds cool!  The only thing I'm wondering is: will that require multiple map layers, or can you think of a way for all of it to be on a single overworld map?

Edited by Lightwulf, 01 May 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[Shane]

Why not a glowing crystal field? Most of the area is dark, and you must rely on the light of the crystals?

[MarinaraSauce]

It'd be cool if you made it legitimately creepy, maybe with a well-made haunted area or with NPCs that all talk about something ahead in a vague manner.  Try to steer away from random jumpscares, since it would probably be difficult to execute them well in ZQ.

[Timelord]

What I picture, is deep grey stone, with various sources of illumination, from fire, magma pools, green, or silver incandescent moss; and the glittering of gems, lit by these sources.

There is a Doctor Who story, Underworld, )Fourth Doctor, with Leela) that you may want to consider watching, for an example of an entire civilisation living under stone. (I can provide that story to you, if you wish.)

Also, in the modern series, 'The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit' featured an underground city of sorts.

Several AD&D settings had underground cities, including the classical Underdark, and others, from Forgotten Realms.

The question is: How alive, and how realistic do you want this to be?

The following would be required for an underworld civilisation of humanoids to function;

• Light, either natural, artificial, or both.
• Heat, again, natural, or artificial.
• Air: Oxygen farms: this could be gardens of some kind--see 'Doctor Who: The Time of Angels'--machinery (either pumping air from the surface, or converting water, and nitrogen sources, into air), or air vents of some kind, possibly naturally occurring, in water sources.
• Water: This one, is pretty easy, but you can flourish it, perhaps by adding bio-luminescent life-forms to the water, which would be a natural evolutionary expectation of sea creatures in total darkness.
• Food Sources: Terrariums, water creatures, and so forth.

You may also consider other life forms, such as silicon based life for science-fiction, or Dwarven (Scandinavian origin), or Gnomish (Celtic and Gnomish--for the education of all, the word 'Gnome' derives from Latin, 'gēnomos' and the Greek γηνομος, meaning 'Dwellers of the Earth/Rock), for fantasy creatures.

Trolls, of sorts, are also common folk creatures, living underground. Perhaps even sentient plants, or bio-luninous fish people would make sense. The Dark elves of AD&D are subterranean too.

I would really love a setting where the default world is underground, and where it is not just a gimmick. Entire cities under stone, is a fascinating idea, and when I'm doing for the Delves in TGC. The 'Wizardry' series of games, had towns, inside the dungeon.

You'll need to decide if science rules your world, if magic rules your world, or if magic is just another sort of science; so that both work in unison.

[Lightwulf]

@Charizard: Nice!  I had considered bio-luminescent mushrooms before; crystals are a great idea too!  I probably haven't implemented any of that because all the level colors are dark (actually, probably just 'cause I didn't take the time for spriting when I was eager to get the Underworld map done), but I just remembered I could always just use a non-level CSet for the glowing sprites.

 

@GrantGreif:  Nice idea!  

 

@ZoriaRPG: Wow!  That's a lot of info!

I'm not trying to make it too realistic; I want to work with the tiles I have, only creating a few more as needed.  I had initially intended to have underground trees with a different sprite design, to make them look unique, but I ended up not going that far because I have limited time to work on this quest as it is.

Thanks for the advice!    I hope to use some of these.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Alrighty, guys.  Thanks a lot, everyone!    I think I have enough to get me going now.  Since we're talking about an "overworld" map, I probably have space for an abyss, a desert area, and a natural fortress.  Heck, I might even combine the ravine idea with the fortress idea!  I haven't decided just yet, but I'm on my way!  Thanks, all!

Edited by Lightwulf, 02 May 2014 - 11:48 AM.