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Ocarina of Time vs. Majora's Mask


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#1 The Satellite

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

Throughout the history of the Zelda franchise, there have been a lot of opposing battles regarding style of the series. For example: 2D vs. 3D, cartoony graphics vs. realism, and now motion controls/touch-screen controls vs. traditional controls. All interesting topics, but one I haven't really seen is an actual thread that specifically focuses on one of the bigger battles in the series, at least from my point-of-view: Whether Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask is the better game, and why. It's been brought up in threads before, but it wasn't the main focus of the thread; I wanted to make a thread with that specific focus, so, here it is.

I've already reviewed both games (OoT and MM), but basically, I want to break a few things down and give thoughts based on the two games in comparison to one another in one thread, broken down into different sections. I'm also interested in the community's thoughts on this whole game debate; it's okay to just say which one you prefer or like better, but please, no one wants to see any "OoT is the best because it's OoT!" or "MM is the best because it has masks!" posts. Because those are terrible reasons.

Anyways...

I'm gonna start by saying, and I'm pretty sure most of you know this by now, that I feel that Ocarina of Time is the better of the two games. But that's not to say it does everything better; Majora's Mask certainly improved some of those features, as I mentioned in my review. But why do I feel that way? There's a few factors. One of those would be dungeon count and quality; Inside the Deku Tree is a very bland and boring dungeon, but afterward, the dungeons are for the most part (except perhaps the Shadow Temple) unique and challenging. So let's exclude Inside the Deku Tree and Shadow Temple, and that leaves you with six dungeons of good/great/excellent quality. Yes, I'm including the Water Temple, because while switching boots was annoying in the N64 version, it's still a clever and challenging dungeon in and of itself. Whereas you have Majora's Mask, with a grand total of... ... four dungeons? That's it? And the Woodfall and Snowhead Temples weren't even that good. Woodfall was alright, one of the better first dungeons in the series, but nothing special; Snowhead was somewhat fun, but again, nothing special. Now, Great Bay Temple stands out as a very unique dungeon, and is perhaps the best if not the best water dungeon in the series (Ancient Cistern is currently challenging that spot). Stone Tower Temple is a unique dungeon and better than the first two, but I feel as if it's an overrated dungeon; they could have pulled off a similar effect just by making it a multiple-level dungeon that was never flipped, and then there were the instances where you'd miss a chest and have to flip it again by playing that damn Elegy of Emptiness three times.

Another factor where OoT I feel did better than MM was in the story department. Main story, at least. MM spins an apocalyptic tale, and when you look about at the various inhabitants of the world and see their daily lives and their preparations for the end, it's dark, it's moody, and it's emotional. Then there's the mystery of Ikana. Here, MM excelled. But that's the side stuff; much of this can be ignored when you focus on the main story. Okay, so, there's a guy who sells masks, he wants a mask that harbors an evil demon inside it, the Skull Kid stole it and is wreaking havoc, trapping away the Four Giants, and dropping a moon on the world? That's an excellent premise, but it never seems to be narrated well enough. And it has no real twists; one might try to say "How about Majora's Mask using Skull Kid as a pawn?" Yeah, sorry, saw that coming. Ocarina of Time was much stronger and much more driving in the main storyline; it was weaker with its side characters, though here and there you'll find an interesting story, and if you dig even deeper, some things you overlooked take on new significance. But MM does those parts better, so back to the point: I prefer a good, strong, driving main story, which is what OoT had. I found myself more concerned with determining what Ganondorf had done to the individual races and peoples of Hyrule (in two time periods, in some cases) and finding a way to stop him once and for all; who could forget when you opened the Door of Time and took the Master Sword only for Ganondorf to appear and take the Triforce, rubbing it in your face that you let him in to get it? Then you fought him and defeat him, only for him to drop the tower on you and then return as a giant monster. It may have been a lame final boss fight, but that final stab to the face felt pretty satisfying. And it was great to gradually pick up on bits and pieces of Ganondorf's backstory; they hardly said much about Majora at all, and while mystery is fine, never giving a true explanation in-game or in another game is kind of disappointing.

The final thing may be more subjective to me (not that the above two points are subjective), but it involves the overworld. No, not overworld design or layout. More like the utilization. Hyrule Field and Termina Field are nothing special. Hyrule Field is large, pretty, and adventurous, but suffers from a lack of objectives, enemies, and secrets (holes in the ground don't count); Termina Field adds a few more objectives and gives you enemies to fight, but it's small, claustrophobic, and feels like random objects were scattered everywhere and called a field. So basically, neither overworld is very good. And while I've said that, well, let me quote it: "It also does do a better job of feeling like a world in general, and in fact improves the strong parts of OoT's overworld." But I also said this: "I would have liked a little more overworld interaction between each area instead of disregarding the previous ones for the rest of the game," and while it does squeeze in more secrets, I stand by it; I enjoyed navigating the overworld of Ocarina of Time through the various pathways between areas, especially how some connected to each other. Fell off the Gerudo Valley bridge into the river? You end up in Lake Hylia! Little things like that, and what I enjoy is being able to go back to an area you've explored before later on for some new goal, especially in the older time period; this was a concept that was vaguely similar to the Light/Dark World concept I love so much, and so being able to see what happened to the various peoples of the land seven years later had a pretty profound effect on me. Whereas in Majora's Mask, once you complete the main objective in one part of the overworld, you are pretty much never forced to return, except for Powder Kegs. Sure, you can go back for 100% completion, but you're never required to. I guess one can write that off as story-justified, but as a gameplay mechanic, I don't really like it that much.

These are the major strong points that contribute to my preference of OoT over MM. There are so many other factors between each game though where one game does it better than the other, or equally, so that does not mean that because I prefer OoT, that every single aspect about the game is better than in MM; I've said so up above. If I could make a chart without resorting to HTML coding, I would use that with several different aspects and whether OoT or MM does them better, or if it's a tie. I'm gonna try to make as thorough a list as possible of aspects each game shares, then check off which game is superior in that aspect, or if they're even. So here we go...

  • Story - OoT
  • Dungeons - OoT
  • Overworld - MM (I only said utilization of OoT's overworld was better)
  • Bosses - OoT
  • Minibosses - MM
  • Physics - About equal, though I feel the horse mechanics were slightly worse in MM than in OoT
  • Items - OoT
  • Characters - MM
  • Music - OoT (by a small margin)
  • Sidequests - MM

Eh, that should be good for now, I suppose; covers the basics pretty well. So basically, the games are fairly equal to each other, but with different strong points; OoT just had more strong points that appealed to me more than MM, although MM's aren't negligible by any stretch of the word. In fact, as I conclude, I suddenly get the impression that the preference between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask might be more psychological rather than because of actual game design, since both have such varying aspects from each other that different kinds of people will like more than the other. Not to say I'm a stranger to subjectivity; I'm more than familiar with it. But after analyzing the two games in more depth, they're pretty much so evenly designed on the average (I gave both a score of 8/10 after all) that choosing between them all just comes down to one's preference. I mean that's pretty much true of the entire series, but perhaps even more true between these two games.

But that doesn't mean we can't try to sound intelligent while explaining why we like one more than the other. icon_deformed.gif



#2 NoeL

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:08 PM

You forgot "Atmosphere", which MM wins hands down. I feel a million times more invested in the world around me playing MM than OOT.

#3 Koh

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:14 PM

One game can't be better than the other in truths, as saying such a thing is completely opinionated and biased. That said, I didn't play much of Majora's Mask; the farthest I got was fighting Skullkid for the First Time, directly after receiving the Moon's Tear. Ocarina of Time, I've never cleared, but I've made it into the Fire Temple's 2nd floors or somewhere in there. I like the gameplay of both games, I just never finished them due to me only having the roms, which are hard to stay attached to.

#4 Geoffrey

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:56 PM

QUOTE(The Satellite @ Feb 18 2012, 09:41 PM) View Post

Fell off the Gerudo Valley bridge into the river? You end up in Lake Hylia!

Swam down the river in Ikana Canyon? Now you're in the Swamp! icon_razz.gif


I would pretty much say that Majora's Mask is better in every way:

I much preferred the three-day time-limit over the arbitrary time-travel gimmick that doesn't effect gameplay significantly. Not that I didn't enjoy it; it was fun to complete half of the Spirit Temple as a child and half of it as an adult, but I did prefer how the time-limit actually added a new dimension and a degree of difficulty.

Ocarina of Time's story is pretty cliche and overused; it was essentially a rehash of every Zelda storyline thus far (and thereafter). Majora's Mask was neither. It was a dark and interesting story, with so many peculiarities that rewarded those who looked for them. I also prefer having interesting background characters whose lives I can participate in over who I would essentially consider to be "placeholders", as was in Ocarina of Time.

Boss variety was better in Ocarina of Time, but the actual bosses in Majora's Mask win for me. They kept me on my toes, something which Ocarina of Time simply couldn't do; once I learnt Volvagia or Morpha's pattern, the battle was basically over. Plus, Goht is definitely one of the more imaginative things that Nintendo has done.

Items were better in Majora's Mask. Six bottles = win. Almost thirty masks = win. Also, I prefer to actually be able to use all of my items whenever I want, thank you very much.

I would give Majora's Mask the prize for music, if only for the Song of Healing, Stone Tower music, and Keaton's Theme. But both were relatively good here. Well, sort of; Nintendo games have never really had good music compared to other franchises.


Were I to give them a score, I would probably give Majora's Mask an 8/10, and Ocarina of Time a 7/10.

...

...Wind Waker wins with 9/10. *runs*

#5 The Satellite

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE(NoeL @ Feb 18 2012, 10:08 PM) View Post
You forgot "Atmosphere", which MM wins hands down. I feel a million times more invested in the world around me playing MM than OOT.
Eh, I disagree, mostly because I'm a sucker for a good central villain, which Ganondorf was. He was there and evident. Okay so the moon was there too but it wasn't the villain; if anything it was as much a victim as everyone else in Termina. Granted the Majora fight is a much better fight, but I prefer putting an end to the evil overlord. icon_shrug.gif
QUOTE(Ornlu @ Feb 18 2012, 10:56 PM) View Post
Swam down the river in Ikana Canyon? Now you're in the Swamp! icon_razz.gif
Yeah, except if you fall in the river, you can climb back out and start over; you're not forced to swim down it, so I never would have known this. icon_razz.gif
QUOTE(Ornlu @ Feb 18 2012, 10:56 PM) View Post
I much preferred the three-day time-limit over the arbitrary time-travel gimmick that doesn't effect gameplay significantly. Not that I didn't enjoy it; it was fun to complete half of the Spirit Temple as a child and half of it as an adult, but I did prefer how the time-limit actually added a new dimension and a degree of difficulty.
To be honest, I have no opinion on the three-day system one way or the other. I find the losing of ammo and rupees as well as having to wait tedious amounts of time for certain events of sidequests (and then having to repeat that sidequest again to get 100% completion) to be annoying, but in the main gameplay, it never really got in the way.
QUOTE(Ornlu @ Feb 18 2012, 10:56 PM) View Post
Boss variety was better in Ocarina of Time, but the actual bosses in Majora's Mask win for me. They kept me on my toes, something which Ocarina of Time simply couldn't do; once I learnt Volvagia or Morpha's pattern, the battle was basically over. Plus, Goht is definitely one of the more imaginative things that Nintendo has done.
Goht got more fun the more you played him, but the other bosses... I never felt "on my toes" with any of 'em besides Majora. Odolwa is one of the worst bosses in the series, Gyorg is the most tediously annoying boss, and Twinmold... granted I've only played him using the Giant's Mask with Chateau Romani, but it wasn't much of anything. Tempted to try it sans mask just out of curiosity though...
QUOTE(Ornlu @ Feb 18 2012, 10:56 PM) View Post
I would give Majora's Mask the prize for music, if only for the Song of Healing, Stone Tower music, and Keaton's Theme. But both were relatively good here. Well, sort of; Nintendo games have never really had good music compared to other franchises.
icon_odd2.gif

That bolded part aside, the music could go either way, so not really much to say here. icon_heh.gif
QUOTE(Ornlu @ Feb 18 2012, 10:56 PM) View Post
...Wind Waker wins with 9/10. *runs*
*9.5

*also runs*

#6 Beefster

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

QUOTE(The Satellite @ Feb 18 2012, 07:41 PM) View Post
  • Story - OoT
  • Dungeons - OoT
  • Overworld - MM (I only said utilization of OoT's overworld was better)
  • Bosses - OoT
  • Minibosses- MM
  • Physics - About equal, though I feel the horse mechanics were slightly worse in MM than in OoT
  • Items - OoT
  • Characters - MM
  • Music - OoT (by a small margin)
  • Sidequests - MM
I agree with you on the dungeons and bosses, but I strongly disagree with you on story (because OoT's story is so cliche) and items. The transformation mechanic was magnificent; It worked very well in MM (and ended up being TP's one redeeming factor). What MM lacks in item novelty it makes up in the transformation mechanics. So I'd say they tie for items.

One thing to note about MM's dungeon design is that it had to play by different rules so it wouldn't be frustrating to tackle in multiple cycles. And it's amazing what they did with just the different kinds of arrows. Nothing spectacular was involved, but it was rather clever design when you think about it. It had more of a Portal attitude to level design because not a whole lot changed between or during levels.

QUOTE(NoeL @ Feb 18 2012, 08:08 PM) View Post
You forgot "Atmosphere", which MM wins hands down. I feel a million times more invested in the world around me playing MM than OOT.
I think the word you're looking for is "immersion." But yes, I agree. (Not to mention that MM had better animation quality, which helps significantly with immersion, as do sound effects- especially in FPSs, namely Amnesia.)

On my scale, both games scored 5 stars. It's just that MM's stars are slightly shinier. And then SS's stars are more colorful. I have trouble objectively rating OoT due to nostalgia, although I can say it's the most replayable of them all (Squeezed out ~15 playthroughs, with 3 on Master Quest). icon_unsettled.gif Although arguably, MM doesn't need strict replayability due to the cycles. You've effectively played through the game 5 times by the time you 100% complete it because of the sheer depth of sidequests.

Edited by Beefster, 20 February 2012 - 01:42 AM.


#7 Smiles the Death Bringer

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Majora's Mask wins story wise for me, especially with all the little implicit stuff...
But overall I have to give OoT the winning ticket for me, it could just be because I've had OoT since a very young age (wasn't the first Zelda I've played [that would be ALttP], but it was the first I beat) and I've beat it over 15 times since then and still enjoy it, but after 3 playthroughs MM started getting a little stale for me, I love the item designs more than OoT, but OoT had the better items and music and dungeon designs (unlike most people I actually kinda like the Water Temple, even though it can be confusing [unless you've beaten it so many times you remember absolutely everything about it] there's not much going on, it's kind of soothing)
To me the ability to reflect on all the enjoyment I had with OoT when I first played it and the enjoyment of MM when I first played it, I have to say that I enjoyed OoT far more, and that is why it is my favorite video game of all time.
My friend who is 12 and plays FPS on the PS3, I brought my N64 over and had him play through it and even he loved it.

#8 The Satellite

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

I uh, ahem, keep forgetting to touch on why I gave that items score to OoT. icon_heh.gif

To be honest, I felt like the majority of the masks were just one-time-use sorts of things that were for nothing more than 100% completion. You have ones that are actually useful, like the Stone Mask, Garo Mask, and Blast Mask, but the others weren't really that important. As for the items, while the Ice Arrow was so much more damn useful and I loved it for that, I just preferred the OoT arsenal; six bottles is nice, but mostly unnecessary. Plus I prefer the boomerang being an item rather than a Zora power. That, and I enjoy the spells; they remind me of the medallions in ALttP, and I like when games add items like that that are unnecessary but helpful. But I guess items could really swing other way then, in that case.

#9 Fabbrizio

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:46 PM

Ocarina of Time versus Majora's Mask, hmmm? I pick Wind Waker for obvious reasons I'd have to go with Majora's Mask. I love everything about Majora's Mask, whereas I have never cared for Ocarina of Time in the slightest. Even the time system in MM (which most people consider as much of a hindrance as the Great Sea in Wind Waker) was part of what made the game so intriguing and enjoyable for me.

#10 Evan20000

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

QUOTE(The Satellite @ Feb 18 2012, 07:41 PM) View Post

Throughout the history of the Zelda franchise, there have been a lot of opposing battles regarding style of the series. For example: 2D vs. 3D, cartoony graphics vs. realism, and now motion controls/touch-screen controls vs. traditional controls. All interesting topics, but one I haven't really seen is an actual thread that specifically focuses on one of the bigger battles in the series, at least from my point-of-view: Whether Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask is the better game, and why. It's been brought up in threads before, but it wasn't the main focus of the thread; I wanted to make a thread with that specific focus, so, here it is.

I've already reviewed both games (OoT and MM), but basically, I want to break a few things down and give thoughts based on the two games in comparison to one another in one thread, broken down into different sections. I'm also interested in the community's thoughts on this whole game debate; it's okay to just say which one you prefer or like better, but please, no one wants to see any "OoT is the best because it's OoT!" or "MM is the best because it has masks!" posts. Because those are terrible reasons.

Anyways...

I'm gonna start by saying, and I'm pretty sure most of you know this by now, that I feel that Ocarina of Time is the better of the two games. But that's not to say it does everything better; Majora's Mask certainly improved some of those features, as I mentioned in my review. But why do I feel that way? There's a few factors. One of those would be dungeon count and quality; Inside the Deku Tree is a very bland and boring dungeon, but afterward, the dungeons are for the most part (except perhaps the Shadow Temple) unique and challenging. So let's exclude Inside the Deku Tree and Shadow Temple, and that leaves you with six dungeons of good/great/excellent quality.

Really? I felt the shadow temple was an excellent linearly designed dungeon. You never actually felt like you were walking down a dotted line towards the boss, and the dungeon provided an excellent shortcut to the boss in the event that you die. On the other hand, I feel the Fire Temple was a poorly designed linear dungeon. You spend the majority of the dungeon climbing one of the towers to get the hammer and every time you fall (which the design actively tries to make happen) it is a long and painful walk back up to the top.
QUOTE
Yes, I'm including the Water Temple, because while switching boots was annoying in the N64 version, it's still a clever and challenging dungeon in and of itself. Whereas you have Majora's Mask, with a grand total of... ... four dungeons?

I'll be the first to say that MM had a criminal shortage of dungeons, I'll comment that not all of OoT's 8 dungeons should be counted. I feel the Deku Tree and Dodongo's Cavern should be exempted due to lack of length.

QUOTE
That's it? And the Woodfall and Snowhead Temples weren't even that good. Woodfall was alright, one of the better first dungeons in the series, but nothing special; Snowhead was somewhat fun, but again, nothing special. Now, Great Bay Temple stands out as a very unique dungeon, and is perhaps the best if not the best water dungeon in the series (Ancient Cistern is currently challenging that spot). Stone Tower Temple is a unique dungeon and better than the first two, but I feel as if it's an overrated dungeon; they could have pulled off a similar effect just by making it a multiple-level dungeon that was never flipped, and then there were the instances where you'd miss a chest and have to flip it again by playing that damn Elegy of Emptiness three times.

I certainly agree that Woodfall is the least interesting of MM's dungeons. I feel Snowhead is underrated in some ways. I don't think we've seen the adjustable pillar elevator mechanic anywhere else and I thought it was really inventive. We both agree that Great Bay was great. As for Stone Tower, it is one of my favorite in the series so prepare for incoming bias. While your argument that flipping the temple could be equated by a 4 floor dungeon has some merit, I could easily turn and say the same thing about the Spirit Temple (which is the dungeon I feel it has the most similarities with). While you essentially leave both dungeons to hit a switch (going back in time is effectively a switch in this instance) to change the dungeon, Stone Tower had far more interactivity between the two halves along with many puzzles inside that involve flipping the temple over and over, capitalizing on the dungeon's gimmick. Whereas you could effectively split the Spirit Temple into two dungeons due to the complete disconnect with the two halves. An additional point I'd like to bring up is how much content you get out of so few rooms in Stone Tower Temple. Even if you count rooms that you can explore when the temple is/isn't flipped twice, it's still the smallest dungeon in the game save for Woodfall and smaller than all of the adult dungeons in OoT.

QUOTE
Another factor where OoT I feel did better than MM was in the story department. Main story, at least. MM spins an apocalyptic tale, and when you look about at the various inhabitants of the world and see their daily lives and their preparations for the end, it's dark, it's moody, and it's emotional. Then there's the mystery of Ikana. Here, MM excelled. But that's the side stuff; much of this can be ignored when you focus on the main story. Okay, so, there's a guy who sells masks, he wants a mask that harbors an evil demon inside it, the Skull Kid stole it and is wreaking havoc, trapping away the Four Giants, and dropping a moon on the world? That's an excellent premise, but it never seems to be narrated well enough. And it has no real twists; one might try to say "How about Majora's Mask using Skull Kid as a pawn?" Yeah, sorry, saw that coming. Ocarina of Time was much stronger and much more driving in the main storyline; it was weaker with its side characters, though here and there you'll find an interesting story, and if you dig even deeper, some things you overlooked take on new significance. But MM does those parts better, so back to the point: I prefer a good, strong, driving main story, which is what OoT had. I found myself more concerned with determining what Ganondorf had done to the individual races and peoples of Hyrule (in two time periods, in some cases) and finding a way to stop him once and for all; who could forget when you opened the Door of Time and took the Master Sword only for Ganondorf to appear and take the Triforce, rubbing it in your face that you let him in to get it? Then you fought him and defeat him, only for him to drop the tower on you and then return as a giant monster. It may have been a lame final boss fight, but that final stab to the face felt pretty satisfying. And it was great to gradually pick up on bits and pieces of Ganondorf's backstory; they hardly said much about Majora at all, and while mystery is fine, never giving a true explanation in-game or in another game is kind of disappointing.

Valid point, but I feel the main difference with each game is how in your face the game is with its story. While it's obvious that Majora is playing Skull Kid like a fiddle, in OoT you also know that the game isn't going to end after 3 dungeons. The largest difference I feel is that while OoT focuses more directly on the actions of Ganondorf, MM focuses largely on the aftermath of the actions of Majora. The world has already been messed up for you, but you can't truly grasp the gravity of it without doing sidequests, which I'll admit is somewhat unfortunate design. Also, in OoT after you "save" an area as an adult, you really don't find out much about what your actions accomplished. After you clear the Water Temple, you are told that Zora's Domain will thaw eventually, but there isn't any immediate difference (aside having access to fire arrows). In MM you can immediately understand how your actions helped the area in question. The poison swamp water clears and the monkey is set free in the swamp; the gorons don't all freeze/starve to death in snowhead and so on....

QUOTE
The final thing may be more subjective to me (not that the above two points are subjective), but it involves the overworld. No, not overworld design or layout. More like the utilization. Hyrule Field and Termina Field are nothing special. Hyrule Field is large, pretty, and adventurous, but suffers from a lack of objectives, enemies, and secrets (holes in the ground don't count); Termina Field adds a few more objectives and gives you enemies to fight, but it's small, claustrophobic, and feels like random objects were scattered everywhere and called a field. So basically, neither overworld is very good. And while I've said that, well, let me quote it: "It also does do a better job of feeling like a world in general, and in fact improves the strong parts of OoT's overworld." But I also said this: "I would have liked a little more overworld interaction between each area instead of disregarding the previous ones for the rest of the game," and while it does squeeze in more secrets, I stand by it; I enjoyed navigating the overworld of Ocarina of Time through the various pathways between areas, especially how some connected to each other. Fell off the Gerudo Valley bridge into the river? You end up in Lake Hylia! Little things like that, and what I enjoy is being able to go back to an area you've explored before later on for some new goal, especially in the older time period; this was a concept that was vaguely similar to the Light/Dark World concept I love so much, and so being able to see what happened to the various peoples of the land seven years later had a pretty profound effect on me. Whereas in Majora's Mask, once you complete the main objective in one part of the overworld, you are pretty much never forced to return, except for Powder Kegs. Sure, you can go back for 100% completion, but you're never required to. I guess one can write that off as story-justified, but as a gameplay mechanic, I don't really like it that much.

I'd like to add that you can swim down the Ikana river to reach Woodfall, but other than that your point about interconnected areas is strong.

QUOTE
These are the major strong points that contribute to my preference of OoT over MM. There are so many other factors between each game though where one game does it better than the other, or equally, so that does not mean that because I prefer OoT, that every single aspect about the game is better than in MM; I've said so up above. If I could make a chart without resorting to HTML coding, I would use that with several different aspects and whether OoT or MM does them better, or if it's a tie. I'm gonna try to make as thorough a list as possible of aspects each game shares, then check off which game is superior in that aspect, or if they're even. So here we go...
  • Story - OoT
  • Dungeons - OoT
  • Overworld - MM (I only said utilization of OoT's overworld was better)
  • Bosses - OoT
  • Minibosses- MM
  • Physics - About equal, though I feel the horse mechanics were slightly worse in MM than in OoT
  • Items - OoT
  • Characters - MM
  • Music - OoT (by a small margin)
  • Sidequests - MM
Eh, that should be good for now, I suppose; covers the basics pretty well. So basically, the games are fairly equal to each other, but with different strong points; OoT just had more strong points that appealed to me more than MM, although MM's aren't negligible by any stretch of the word. In fact, as I conclude, I suddenly get the impression that the preference between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask might be more psychological rather than because of actual game design, since both have such varying aspects from each other that different kinds of people will like more than the other. Not to say I'm a stranger to subjectivity; I'm more than familiar with it. But after analyzing the two games in more depth, they're pretty much so evenly designed on the average (I gave both a score of 8/10 after all) that choosing between them all just comes down to one's preference. I mean that's pretty much true of the entire series, but perhaps even more true between these two games.

But that doesn't mean we can't try to sound intelligent while explaining why we like one more than the other. icon_deformed.gif

Ultimately I prefer MM more. It was my first Zelda title and probably will always be my favorite while I'm blinded by the nostalgia goggles.

#11 The Satellite

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:33 AM

QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
Really? I felt the shadow temple was an excellent linearly designed dungeon. You never actually felt like you were walking down a dotted line towards the boss, and the dungeon provided an excellent shortcut to the boss in the event that you die. On the other hand, I feel the Fire Temple was a poorly designed linear dungeon. You spend the majority of the dungeon climbing one of the towers to get the hammer and every time you fall (which the design actively tries to make happen) it is a long and painful walk back up to the top.
Maybe my overlooking that aspect of the Fire Temple was because for me as a kid, it was an obstacle. An annoying one. I finally overcame it to the point it's no trouble for me anymore, and even if I fell back down, I could climb back up in my sleep. I overlook it because I've grown past it; I enjoy the rest of the dungeon's design anyway. Except for Master Quest. Not even using the other half of the level... The Shadow Temple itself was an okay level, but it just didn't come off as well-designed as the other temples. Plus, it wasn't even creepy. Well the boat in the 3DS version kind of was, but whatever.
QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
I'll be the first to say that MM had a criminal shortage of dungeons, I'll comment that not all of OoT's 8 dungeons should be counted. I feel the Deku Tree and Dodongo's Cavern should be exempted due to lack of length.
I did say I discounted the Deku Tree, but I disagree about the cavern; I felt it was sufficiently puzzling enough. Even discounting those two, there's still six quality dungeons in OoT compared to MM's two. icon_razz.gif
QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
I certainly agree that Woodfall is the least interesting of MM's dungeons. I feel Snowhead is underrated in some ways. I don't think we've seen the adjustable pillar elevator mechanic anywhere else and I thought it was really inventive. We both agree that Great Bay was great. As for Stone Tower, it is one of my favorite in the series so prepare for incoming bias. While your argument that flipping the temple could be equated by a 4 floor dungeon has some merit, I could easily turn and say the same thing about the Spirit Temple (which is the dungeon I feel it has the most similarities with). While you essentially leave both dungeons to hit a switch (going back in time is effectively a switch in this instance) to change the dungeon, Stone Tower had far more interactivity between the two halves along with many puzzles inside that involve flipping the temple over and over, capitalizing on the dungeon's gimmick. Whereas you could effectively split the Spirit Temple into two dungeons due to the complete disconnect with the two halves. An additional point I'd like to bring up is how much content you get out of so few rooms in Stone Tower Temple. Even if you count rooms that you can explore when the temple is/isn't flipped twice, it's still the smallest dungeon in the game save for Woodfall and smaller than all of the adult dungeons in OoT.
Snowhead had an interesting gimmick but one that just annoyed me in the end due to constant falling down, more so than falling down that pit in the Fire Temple. As far as Stone Tower, yes, multiple flippings could have been fun if it weren't for the need to move all those blocks and shoot the emblem while playing the Elegy of Emptiness dozens of times. Spirit Temple I always did consider to be like two separate dungeons (but not actually so) due to that nature, but when the Master Quest version made you backtrack into the child portion, but require you to become a child again just to get a key, then it got annoying. Fortunately there wasn't much more to that than warping, pulling/placing a sword, then warping back, and there was less song-playing, but it was still tedious enough. I might have been less annoyed by the Stone Tower Temple if the emblem had been in plain sight. icon_shrug.gif
QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
Valid point, but I feel the main difference with each game is how in your face the game is with its story. While it's obvious that Majora is playing Skull Kid like a fiddle, in OoT you also know that the game isn't going to end after 3 dungeons. The largest difference I feel is that while OoT focuses more directly on the actions of Ganondorf, MM focuses largely on the aftermath of the actions of Majora. The world has already been messed up for you, but you can't truly grasp the gravity of it without doing sidequests, which I'll admit is somewhat unfortunate design. Also, in OoT after you "save" an area as an adult, you really don't find out much about what your actions accomplished. After you clear the Water Temple, you are told that Zora's Domain will thaw eventually, but there isn't any immediate difference (aside having access to fire arrows). In MM you can immediately understand how your actions helped the area in question. The poison swamp water clears and the monkey is set free in the swamp; the gorons don't all freeze/starve to death in snowhead and so on....
True, it's nice to more actively see your results of saving a part of the land, but that wasn't completely absent in OoT. Kokiri come out of hiding to return to their lives while the Deku Sprout flourishes, the Gorons return to their village, Lake Hylia's water level returns to normal... okay so that last one's minor. So it's not all that blatant or noticeable, but it isn't absent. And truth be told, the environments of both games are somewhat similar in that you're dealing with the aftermath of an evil being's antics and then stopping it from winning completely. OoT even showed the land in peace before any of it happened, so arguably, the atmosphere's more diverse in OoT. Maybe not as in-depth or moody.
QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
I'd like to add that you can swim down the Ikana river to reach Woodfall, but other than that your point about interconnected areas is strong.
Already pointed out, but yes. I just wish more of Termina was interconnected like that is all.
QUOTE(Evan20000 @ Feb 19 2012, 01:34 AM) View Post
Ultimately I prefer MM more. It was my first Zelda title and probably will always be my favorite while I'm blinded by the nostalgia goggles.
Well hey, my first was either Z1, Z2, or ALttP. If it was one of the two former, I've grown on and realized that, while they are the predecessors, they're overshadowed by their successors. If it was ALttP, then we're in the same boat, but I can also think of many legit reasons for it being the best (see my review). icon_heh.gif

#12 Adem

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:25 AM

Helper - MM

... icon_blah.gif

I liked Tatl a lot. Although I'm not actually one of the avid Navi haters, I still preferred Tatl's, uhm, sparkling noises to Navi's incessant hollerin'.

#13 The Satellite

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE(Adem @ Feb 24 2012, 08:25 AM) View Post
Helper
icon_doh.gif

Didn't think about adding that. But I'll agree with you there at least. Navi just didn't really have much of a story or characterization. It was just "He/she said to do this, so let's do it!" Fifty times. Tatl was much less intrusive and more characterized.


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