1463 replies to this topic

[James24]

Yes I have the gold tunic.  Hero mode doubles the damage received from everything, its not a nerf to the item or anything.  

 

Boss rush is starting to worry me a bit - I might have to resort to waiting to refill my magic between rounds <gulp>.  But I'll get there eventually.

[TheLegend_njf]

Boss Russ is one of the hardest bloody things in the game. It's like the only place in the game I think you'll even appreciate the pots. Haha!

What makes Boss Rush so difficult is that Evan made the bosses harder to match your current stats. So these are not the exact same bosses you fought before, they are all beefier as far as hp and damage output goes.

However, your equipment can still wreck most of them if you know what you are what to use and when to use them. This part of the game takes some real practice to learn and really shows just how mean Evan really is. Lol

Fortunately, this Boss Rush does not include Lumin and Venser, thank god!

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 24 February 2016 - 11:22 PM.

[James24]

Oh yeah.  Not doable with pots.  But the difference with these pots is that you only get them once and you can't reenter the room to get more pots.  

 

Just beat the boss rush and got the light arrows.  But it was very close - just made it with 1/2 a heart left.  Sometimes, I had no choice but to wait between rounds for my magic to refill and then go all out attack with the staff - otherwise I would never have won.  I can also consistently get to the 3rd phase of tartaros without using my potion - so I think its only a matter of time before I get a bit of luck and win.  I can smell victory.

 

Your videos are great NJF, I wouldn't have thought about some of the maneuvers you showed and those maneuvers work brilliantly.

 

Evan shows his true colours in the bonus levels on hero mode.  Absolutely mean and brutal.  I like it.  For the first time since Armageddon Quest, I have gone through 3-4 hours of playing and got nowhere due to the insane difficulty.  Beautiful - I want more and hopefully it'll be coming out in his latest quest.

[TheLegend_njf]

Isle of Rebirth is a great quest that provides almost everything a gamer could want.

 

I remember awhile back I gave you a difficult time when you gave your "Type A" and "Type B" analogy, mainly because of how rigid that thinking was. I remember criticizing you saying my list of accomplishments may be greater than yours, but I'll say now that was not at all well thought through. I have no idea what your list of accomplishments are, and you may have a bigger list than me. I think I was speaking on a slightly emotional scale.

 

But ya, when I criticized your "Type A" and "Type B" analogy back in the day, I was thinking about quests such as Isle of Rebirth. Here we have a quest that molds perfectly into both personality types that you mentioned. Fans of Lost Isle can appreciate this quest, but also so can fans of Armageddon quest. Also, I would classify myself as both Type A and Type B from that definition. I like playing what's cool and trending, and I like beautiful well designed quests. But I also like to go through hell and back from time to time, and this quest literally put me up against the devil. lol

 

I may sound like a fanboy, but this quest molds into everything I would call a perfect game and I have since been designing my own quests with Isle of Rebirth in mind. 

[Bill Nye the Russian Spy]

What NJF said. All of it.

Personally, I see this quest (on Hero Mode) as a great introduction to hardcore ZC. I'd never have managed to get through the late-game content if it wasn't for the difficulty curve, and the fun level/boss designs and the promise of Tartaros kept me going through to the end.

(The only catch, of course, being that not every quest allows for completely free movement. :/)

Edited by Bill Nye the Russian Spy, 26 February 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[Deedee]

I'd like to point out that beating either Tartaros or the Hall of Memories Bonus Boss first makes the other much easier. They both give you powerful regen items that will make you more overpowered. I made a video of me fighting the Hall of Memories bonus boss over in Superboss Week, if you want to see how the figth plays out without the overpowered health regen ring.

Also, owning either of the rewards the bonus bosses give you will buff the Final Boss up in difficulty to match your new found might. Fighting the final boss with either of these items and beating him will give you the "best ending", in a sense.

[James24]

Well, I did it  Tartaros on hero mode without ???'s ring - after hours of honing and perfecting my tactics and execution on normal mode with the heart ring, sweet victory.  My prize?  A longish password concerning some big green cartoon character.  I shall savor this victory forever.  Thank you Evan it was a very nice boss and the blighted abyss was wonderful to play.

 

At heart, I believe that IoR is a challenge quest.  You can tell by the meticulous balance on hero mode - almost every stage is barely doable and if you make a few mistakes its almost certainly another death.  Its just so nicely balanced.  And that kind of balance is boring and expensive to make - trust me on that.  Only a true challenge quest lover would spend their precious time creating something so nicely balanced at expert difficulty level.

 

IoR had a cheap nerfs put in to satisfy the non-challenge quest players.  But if you use your lens of truth and look at the criticisms coming from them you can see the murmurs of discontent starting to surface... all might not be as well as you think NJF.

 

On a brighter note, now that I know the quest password, I'm going to play this again hero mode without pots and I'm going to shorten level 8.  It should be a lot more fun

[TheLegend_njf]

Lejes did say in a stream he'd be excited to see some IoR hacks. Guess James is already preparing a plotless IoR for his own pleasure. There you go Lejes, your very first IoR hack. Lol

[Deedee]

Well, I did it  Tartaros on hero mode without ???'s ring - after hours of honing and perfecting my tactics and execution on normal mode with the heart ring, sweet victory.  My prize?  A longish password concerning some big green cartoon character.  I shall savor this victory forever.  Thank you Evan it was a very nice boss and the blighted abyss was wonderful to play.

 

Did you ever beat "???"? I'm guessing you made a backup of your save file and played through both of them on separate saves, but if not, you should give him a try. He's different from Tartaros, in that it's a pure sword fight. I'd say he's easier, though, because his attacks follow a pattern you have to learn to use against him, while Tartaros is "use nayru's love and hookshot for invulnerability frames, spam Light arrows, hope for the best".

[James24]

No, I never got around to beating ??? on hero mode without the almighty ring.  Something I've been meaning to do.

 

Thought about the typeA/typeB argument NJF brought up prior and whether IoR has changed my view on this.  It hasn't, in fact its further reinforced it.  Decided to elaborate on the "murmurs of discontent" here are some from the IoR review:

 

"Speaking of difficulty levels, the way in which they were implemented were sub-par" - Orithan, IoR review

"a bit too hard in my opinion" - Joelmacool, IoR review

"This brings me to yet another complaint: The difficulty select options"..."Want to know another complaint I have about difficulty? Differences. The only difference between difficulties is damage, and that's it." - Nexas, IoR review.  Liked by 8 people

"A little too hard in my opinion, even on normal mode." - a30502355, IoR review

"Not to mention the insane difficulty curve" - Homura, IoR review Liked by 6 people

"The Ugly: The difficulty. My goodness. This game will make you pull out your hair" - Shoelace, IoR review

"Then there's the friggin' bosses. I admire what you've accomplished Evan but I think you went a little overboard" - Brocknoth, IoR review

"bosses tend to be a bit ridiculous"..."but they are just extremely hard" - Bagel - IoR review

"I switched to "easy" in the later part of the game, not because I couldn't take the fights themselves, but because it allowed me to focus on puzzle solving / path finding" - Jamian, ioR review

"very condescending towards players who may want an easier or a more relaxed experience"..."There are a lot of hard and/or cheap things to dodge in the quest"..."what I'd instead think should be the case is that while enemies are though (sic), once you have learn their patterns you should be able to deal with them while sustaining minimal damage." - Lunaria in the quest design forum.

 

For the life of me, I can't see it happening - the day when IoR is truly nerfed to suit these criticisms.  Evan will only ever make difficult quests and then put in cheap nerfs to suit everyone else.  But at least you should draw some comfort from the fact that the challenge quest players out there, few and far between as they are, accept you for who you really are - a very good player who loves challenge coupled with a brilliant, mean, brutal and exceptionally-gifted quest maker.

[TheLegend_njf]

Some of these complaints don't feel like genuine complaining, but acknowledgement that the quest is tough.

Take for example Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads, they have a legacy for being really difficult games, and people will say they are "pull your hair out" experiences, but generally this also comes from people who have liked and beat those games.

Granted, there are a few in this list who I can tell they meant what their criticisms well. But I don't think Jamian or Shoelace here was bashing this game or complaining by any means.

[James24]

Shoelace had 3 categories for his review, the good, the bad and the ugly.  He deliberately classified difficulty as "the ugly" when it could've gone to any of the other 2.  It'd be hard to interpret it as anything else other than a complaint.  As for Jamian, his remarks clearly indicate that his preference is more towards puzzle solving and path finding rather than fighting.  And, tough fights are a fundamental part of IoR which he is clearly rejecting when he switched to easy mode.

[TheLegend_njf]

I hope you know he is quoting a movie title starring Clint Eastwood from the 60's, right? That seems to me Shoelace being Shoelace. At this point in time I'd suggest we let him speak for himself than speaking for him.

Also, that's a good movie, the final scene was pretty epic. Lol

Also, choosing to opt out on a difficulty is not the same as complaining about a difficulty. Jamian made a decision to play the game on easy mode. Easy mode exists for this very reason. That shouldn't be confused as a "complaint". It only further proves my point that this quest does cater to other types of gamers with its easier modes.

To you, me, Bill Nye the Russian Spy, and many others, the true experience is in Hero. To others, the experience they got from this quest is from its easier difficulties. I'm pretty sure this is fine when that's the preference. That doesn't mean the preference is a "complaint".

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 01 March 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[General_Milky]

In my opinion, Normal is the "true" IoR. Hero mode can feel just a bit too overbearing at times. It can overshadow the other aspects of cracking dungeons and distract from puzzle solving and simple navigation, and can, in some places, make you feel like you need to play at a near perfect level to make it through with any consistency. Challenge is awesome, but I think IoR normal mode remains challenging while also allowing you to enjoy the adventure. You're allowed to take some hits and make some mistakes while running back and forth wondering what to do, which makes for a better flow.

 

Just making my biyearly peek into this thread and wanted to contribute. =V

[bigboylink]

Some good discussion ITT recently.

 

Does anyone know what song/BGM plays during level 4?  (The option to save midis isn't available).  Decided I'd give this quest another whirl and that tune's been in my head for a while.