190 replies to this topic

[Eppy]

The only thing I actually disliked about this quest is level 10. Everything else is 5/5. However, level 10 itself makes this quest deserve a 0/5. That's how bad it is.

I'm the opposite. I really disliked 11 but loved 10

[Deedee]

"It kills the bubbles!?"

^My favourite part of the video.

Also, I found 10 boring, and frustrating. I found level 11 a relief from that.

Edited by Dimentio, 27 June 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[Russ]

While I certainly didn't hate 10, I felt like it was the weakest of the dungeons from the game's second half. It's gimmicks were interesting, and I never got lost like everybody else (It's not that hard, just use your map and remember which tiles lead where), but I just found it not as fun as the other dungeons.

[Evan20000]

Each dungeon in the quest was designed to be very different from all the rest which has an interesting effect on the feed back I've gotten; for every level in the game, one person will say that they loved it and it was their favorite yet someone else will tell me that the game is great except for that one dungeon. Levels 8 and 10 certainly are popular dislike targets, but I can't even say that maybe a quarter of the players hate those levels; the responses I've gotten are just that diverse and varied. Personally, I find this rather fascinating.

[pixcalibur]

Really depends on the player's style of play.  Some like puzzles, others like combat.  As long as there isn't excessive backtracking and stuff (e.g. hit a switch, go all the way around for another switch, and then go back to the first spot, etc), most people would be ok with it.  Now if you couldn't pull up the overview map in dungeons, this would be a whole different story, as more people would likely be complaining.  Not many people draw up maps of dungeons (I do, and it can get pretty tedious to do).

 

Almost seems like a bit of imbalance in damage the player takes even in Normal.  It's like Easy would be the equivalent of most standard quest difficulties.  Now if armor did the standard 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 damage, actually would be better balanced overall after level 7.  Also wouldn't hurt to give Nayru's Love a little more time, only lasts like 3 seconds.  Even adding another say 5 seconds base to it would make it far more useful in general

[Air Luigi]

I honestly think L9 has the worst design of all the dungeons, but the gimmick can save it. L8 is simply too long (and visually flat) and had the most boring enemies. L10 is also strange, but at least the gimmick was 100% unique. 8-9-10 feel very disorganized for me and they drag too much, they are a big contrast compared to the rest of great layouts, which have a much better flow and sense of fun. It doesn't help that the player doesn't have any rest between those exhausting dungeons.

Edited by Air Luigi, 28 June 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Russ]

I guess that goes back to what Evan was saying; personally, I feel level 9 is one of the best designed dungeons in the game. I can sorta see why people don't like it though; it's very open, unusually so for a dungeon. Rather than a linear progression, it's basically "find these five keys in any order then walk down the path to the boss room."

Regarding normal and easy mode, yeah, Evan'll freely acknowledge that "easy" is on par with most other quests. If I recall correctly, the quest was originally designed for the I Wanna Be The Guy community, so when he saw his audience would be a bit broader than that, he added easy mode to make it more accessible.

[KingPridenia]

^My only criticism to that is why are you forced to die a set number of times to unlock it? Looking at another quest with difficulty settings, The Forbidden City, Jamian makes all four settings open from the start. In IoR, if I remember correctly, you're not extended an invitation to downgrade to Easy Mode until you've taken your 10th death and Very Easy requires more. I mean I personally don't understand that decision. On another note, there is almost no difference other than just taking more damage. There are very few perks to playing Hero Mode other than wanting a serious challenge. Likewise, there doesn't seem to be any form of easy mode mockery either, such as abruptly ending the quest after a certain point or making certain items/dungeons unavailable. Then again, I don't know how well this would sit (in spoilers to respect MeleeWizard)

 

Spoiler

If something was done along the lines of making the Brutal Bonus Dungeon inaccessible if you're on Easy or Very Easy. However, Evan said that being on those difficulties make no difference, since the dungeon is more or less its own difficulty. Also, I'm assuming nobody would want to play a 30+ hour quest just to be told "Play on Normal Mode, n00b!" when they beat it.

 

That being said, a minor bit of critique for Evan is that I think difficulty should have had more distinction than simply double damage (which I'm going on a limb and saying Forbidden City fell into the same trap). Like for instance, normal damage, but hearts, bombs and arrows are harder to come by? Or you take 1.5x damage instead of 2x and enemies have slightly buffed up HP or have certain AI that they wouldn't on easier difficulties? Like here's a boss example:

 

Spoiler

Using Moldorm Prime as an example:

Very Easy / Easy - It moves slower in general.
Normal Mode - As is right now.
Hero Mode - Faster, more aggressive, boulders have a larger blast radius.

 

Another example, this time with Frostknuckle:

 

Very Easy / Easy - Doesn't jump as often, only summons up to one Spark.

Normal Mode - The same as it currently is.

Hero Mode - Jumps more often, can have up to three Sparks at once and when he throws his shield, it splits into shrapnel that flies in random directions, has slight homing (about as much as the bonus boss's wind attack) and does 3 hearts of damage to Link.

 

Just my two cents. But I think Normal mode is fine based off watching this LP. A bit unfair at points, but nothing too insane. People have beaten IoR fully playing Hero Mode, so it's obviously possible.

[Russ]

Regarding hero mode, there actually is a very big perk.

Spoiler

Beating the bonus boss, then enraged final boss on hero mode nets you the quest password.

Regarding the other spoiler thing...

Spoiler

How it works is that, if you're no easy or very easy, the bonus dungeon ignore the difficulty setting and still deals normal damage. I personally think that's fair; you can't tank your way through it on easy, yet it's not completely blocked off to you because you played easy mode.

As for the difficulty settings, that was a last minute addition (it didn't show up until the final phases of beta testing), and by that point it was too late to integrate boss AI into it or anything like that. I believe his next quest will have boss AI tied to difficulty setting, however.

[MeleeWizard]

Part 42
 
Despite all the good it's done me, I can't help but question the architect's decision to leave holes in the roof like this.

[CyberGamer1539]

As for the difficulty settings, that was a last minute addition (it didn't show up until the final phases of beta testing), and by that point it was too late to integrate boss AI into it or anything like that. I believe his next quest will have boss AI tied to difficulty setting, however. 

 

 

Huh?  He's making another quest?  EXCITEMENT!!!

[TheLegend_njf]

Each dungeon in the quest was designed to be very different from all the rest which has an interesting effect on the feed back I've gotten; for every level in the game, one person will say that they loved it and it was their favorite yet someone else will tell me that the game is great except for that one dungeon. Levels 8 and 10 certainly are popular dislike targets, but I can't even say that maybe a quarter of the players hate those levels; the responses I've gotten are just that diverse and varied. Personally, I find this rather fascinating.

 

For the record, I'd just like to add a note that just because somebody hated a level, doesn't mean they in fact "hate" the level.

 

For example, I hate level 10, but I wouldn't have it removed because it still feels like part of the quest. It's not the kind of hate that suggests the dungeon should have never been. There are many games where there are levels I don't like, but I wouldn't change them in any way.

 

Sometimes we just need to have a level we don't like. I hope that makes sense. 

[Air Luigi]

10-11-12 always feel as an afterthought for me (though, it's a much better trio than 7-8-9). Was L9 the final dungeon originally?

 

 

I guess that goes back to what Evan was saying; personally, I feel level 9 is one of the best designed dungeons in the game. I can sorta see why people don't like it though; it's very open, unusually so for a dungeon. Rather than a linear progression, it's basically "find these five keys in any order then walk down the path to the boss room."

 

I don't think that the "openess" is the issue, I love big open dungeons. All the dungeons in IoR after L3 are big and intricate (well, except L11). For me, it's the overall structure, it's simply flawed because there are many tiny corridors that connect screens that are far away. Navigate the dungeon is quite a chore even with the map (same with L8). I never had a problem navigating L12 for example, or any other dungeon.

 

Also, every screen gray gray gray is very boring xD

 

In any case, it's forgivable because is a great quest anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if many people gave up in 8 or 9. Well, in fact, around 60% that played IoR in my site gave up in L8, 20% gave up in L4 and a 20% finished it. 

Edited by Air Luigi, 29 June 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[MeleeWizard]

Part 43
 
I think this boss had one too many moving parts.

[MeleeWizard]

Part 44
 
Time for all that stuff I could have done long ago, apparently!