944 replies to this topic

[Joki]

Right, Im now back to where I was before I lost my save data...

 

7 Golden Chests opened:

 

1) Past Swamp (Use blue song in top right corner of Glycov Swamp)- Enhanced Magic Wand

2) Glycov village Present - Super Charge Ring

3) Waterfall (3 screens east of where you first climb death mountain)- Enchanted Candle

4) 2 screens west of where you shot the switch in Glycov Forest Present, (requires din's fire, and Reversion Rondo)- Enchanted Heart Ring

5) Use Green Song to teleport to Byrov Outskirts Past, walk south 1 screen, move rock. Enchanted Hammer.

6) Go to the swamp in present time. Go right from when you enter and use pegasus boots to break the petrified flower. Hit the switch. Now, teleport to Glycov Fields (past) and act as if you were going to the lower right leg entrance of Turtle Rock. Instead of going in turtle rock, go up on the platform in the ocean and use Reversion Rondo. Enter the stairs and you'll come out in a secluded area of the swamp. Bomb a wall on the lower level and proceed to the golden chest. Reward: Enchanted Magic Ring

7) Snowfall village, purple bush. Dins fire or enchanted candle. Enchanted Ember Seed.

 

Please could someone finish off the last few gold chests Im missing... Tried to look back in the thread... It got confusing.

 

Also, would be interested to know the four fairy locations...

1) On top of the deepwood tower, use blue song. Use flying boots in present to traverse the forest, traveling back and forth till you reach it.

2) In present, use raft south of Glycov village. Travel east, and head north through raft paths to find 2nd fairy.

3) Present, Byrov village.

4) Glycov mountain, present. Head west from owl statue, and hammer down pegs.

Ice fairy located by diving into turtle's back (present).

 

Glycov forest/petrified forest maze solutions:

 First maze (light blue flowers): N, E, S, S

2nd maze (purple flowers): S, E, E, S

3rd maze (red flowers): W, W, E, E

 

 

 

 

Im also stuck with lowering these pegs in the petrified forest:  http://postimg.org/image/yrii6frcj/

Edited by Joki, 20 April 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Obderhode]

Right, Im now back to where I was before I lost my save data...

 

3 Golden Chests opened:

 

1) Past Swamp (Use blue song in top right corner of Glycov Swamp)- Enhanced Magic Wand

2) Glycov village Present - Super Charge Ring

3) Waterfall (3 screens east of where you first climb death mountain)- Level 2 Candle

4) 2 screens west of where you shot the switch in Glycov Forest Present, (requires din's fire, and Reversion Rondo)-

5)

6)

7)

 

Please could someone finish off the last few gold chests Im missing... Tried to look back in the thread... It got confusing.

 

Also, would be interested to know the four fairy locations...

1) On top of the deepwood tower, use blue song. Use flying boots in present to traverse the forest, traveling back and forth till you reach it.

2) In present, use raft south of Glycov village. Travel east, and head north through raft paths to find 2nd fairy.

3) Present, Byrov village.

4) Glycov mountain, present. Head west from owl statue, and hammer down pegs.

Ice fairy located by diving into turtle's back (present).

 

Glycov forest/petrified forest maze solutions:

 First maze (light blue flowers): N, E, S, S

2nd maze (purple flowers): S, E, E, S

3rd maze (red flowers): W, W, E, E

 

 

 

 

Im also stuck with lowering these pegs in the petrified forest:  http://postimg.org/image/yrii6frcj/

 

The golden chests you are missing are in the following spots:

 

1) In the goron village. Burn the purple tree with Din's Fire OR Enhanted Candle. Reward: Enchanced Ember Seed

2) Teleport to By'rov Outskirts (past). Walk down one screen and move the rock to reveal stairs. Reward: Enchanted Hammer

3) Go to the swamp in present time. Go right from when you enter and use pegasus boots to break the petrified flower. Hit the switch. Now, teleport to Glycov Fields (past) and act as if you were going to the lower right leg entrance of Turtle Rock. Instead of going in turtle rock, go up on the platform in the ocean and use Reversion Rondo. Enter the stairs and you'll come out in a secluded area of the swamp. Bomb a wall on the lower level and proceed to the golden chest. Reward: Enchanted Magic Ring

4) You mentioned it, it is the one in the forest. Reward: Enchanted Heart Ring

 

For the picture, you need to use Din's Fire on the torches.

[Joki]

Is dins fire the level 8 dungeon item?

 

A: Yes

 

Plus, how is this puzzle solved? http://postimg.org/image/4ba2a02o3/

 

A: Push block onto different colour warp.

 

Never seen a block puzzle like this before either?  http://postimg.org/image/y4ai64gn1/

 

A: There is a similar room on the 1F. Spots you need to aim for are in this room: http://postimg.org/image/41kids5cp/

 

Missing the key for this door?  http://postimg.org/image/jmeokjeef/

 

A: It's in the basement. Use Din fire 2 screens north of where you drop in.

 

Level 8 complete!

Edited by Joki, 20 April 2015 - 05:32 AM.

[Joki]

Ah, okay. Was it supposed to contain an Enchanted Key from the start? Or did some people manage to get to a place that was supposed to be just for show, forcing you to make something useful from it (which I find far preferable to simply blocking the place off, mind you)?

 

 

Also, speaking about that Staff; although I first found it through what's the described method, is it supposed to be possible to use the third song instead? I tried to use the third song to get to the absolute highest bit of that Fairy Tower cavern-thing, but it simply warped me to the same cave where I got the Staff of Nayru earlier. Is that supposed to happen, or is it a faulty warp?

 

Having trouble finding Staff. Dived into the turtles back, but have found nothing that looks like the staff.

 

A:

 

Whats going on here in the west shrine?  http://postimg.org/image/yi1v4nla9/

 

A: Once you've beaten North, South and East Shrines platforms will be there.

Edited by Joki, 20 April 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[Obderhode]

For Nayru's Staff:

 

Dive in turtles back and act as if you were going to the Great Fairy of Ice (once you put back together). Instead of going into her room, take the right passage. In the room with the darknuts, walk through a wall on the right side (try not to get hurt, so use Farore's boots). Then, kill the two L2 Batrobes to open a passage. You'll arrive outside and use a Sword Beam to hit the crystal switch. You'll be at the Great Fairy of Wisdom after fending off two rooms of enemies.

[Joki]

Is there a level 4 sword?

 

Would be helpful, but Ive now finished the game!  http://postimg.org/image/nuu37lflb/  http://postimg.org/image/p7csnlhzn/

 

Also, Could you check to see what Im missing on my subscreen?  I know Im missing a piece of heart (I've been looking back post 262, but I still can't find the one Im missing). Have you got a more in depth guide to the heart pieces?

 

 http://postimg.org/image/wnjgofafr/

 

Im also going to update my review for you!

Edited by Joki, 21 April 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[Obderhode]

Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

 

You aren't missing much, but you missed:

 

Quake Hammer Scroll - unlockable when you get the hammer in Snowfall village.

Super Quake Hammer Scroll - found on the mountain for 450 rupees in the location of Level 5's mountain entrance in past time.

 

As far as HCP locations go, that is all I have. I'd consider making a more detailed walkthrough though.

[Obderhode]

Hello PureZC community! I've sort of stopped doing much on these forums, but I noticed that my quest had been reviewed yet again and it really made me want to update the quest. I'm not sure if this will cause anyone to replay the quest or have those who never played it give it a try, but I think all of these changes are for the better and it makes me feel even more proud of my quest knowing that they are completed.

 

The new updated version of the quest should be added to main quest project page sometime today, but here are all of the changes of the last update.

 

When the new version is released on the site, it will no longer contain the music files needed to make it an enjoyable experience for boss encounters. Please be sure to download the boss music files located here and place them in your ZC folder. DOWNLOAD LINK.

 

Change List:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Overworld/Combat/Quality of Life Changes:

 

- You now move/slide faster on ice. I had always hated the default version of the script handled it, and was scared to change it, but the new ice is much better.

- It is no longer possible to obtain the Upgraded Wand without the Aspected Wand.

- All present Stalfos now die instantly to fire just like their past counterparts.

- In a cave system on the way to level 2, a room full of portals has been adjusted.

 

The overworld could occasionally be annoying to traverse at times and prompt you to want to use F6 to continue. For some reason, I hated going back into the swamp a lot myself, even though it wasn't a long journey when you did have to go back into it. With these changes, I believe it will alleviate annoyances of overworld travel.

 

- A cave system shortcut from the main overworld to the wastelands has been added. You can access this passageway after obtaining the slingshot.

- A portal shortcut from the main overworld to the Lon Lon Ranch has been added. This can be accessed after obtaining the candle.

- A shortcut to Gly'cov Mountain has been added. This is avaiable as soon as you get the flippers. In fact, it was there before, but it required the hammer. Now, it just requires the flippers.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dungeon Changes:

 

LEVEL 1:

In its original design, Level 1 received a lot of criticism for the swamp caverns  being part of the dungeon.

While I liked the idea of the dungeon being built into the entire swamp, I decided to scrap that idea for dungeon completion.

The dungeon still is connected to the swamp caverns, but it is NOT required for completion.

 

Change list:

  - New color pallette

  - New music

  - You no longer have to leave the dungeon to complete it. As such, the way to complete it has changed.

  - Now contains an Heart Container Piece.

  - Most traps have been removed from level 1.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 2:

This dungeon was redone in the last patch, so almost nothing changed.

This change, even though small, will reduce the only bit of backtracking that I believed annoying for a completionist.

 

Change list:

- One of the Heart Container Pieces in level 2 has been removed.This was the HCP that required blowing up a wall on the lowest floor of the dungeon.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 3:

After the shortcut added in the last patch, level 3 was in a good spot. However, feedback yielded that the mini-boss was too difficult in his 2nd and 3rd iterations so adjustments were made.

 

Change list:

- Outside of the dungeon, a switch was added to lower the barrier to the dungeon.

- The 2nd and 3rd iteration of the mini boss now deals slightly less damage and has had their respective hp reduced by 1/3.

- The 3rd iteration of the mini boss now takes full damage from the sword.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 4:

I always believed level 4 to be an excellent puzzle dungeon. The only aspect that deemed annoying, was the occasional dark rooms due to having to swap items so much.

 

Change list:

- Level 4 no longer contains any dark rooms.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 5:

This was always one my favorite dungeons, but for some reason, it was always one of the most hated. The dungeon had 4 entrances all over Gly'cov that you would complete in phases.

With the following changes though, the dungeon will now only have 2 entrances where the main entrance is the only one that is important. You will have no reason to exit the dungeon once you enter it now

and if you do, it will be to buy potions which is now conveniently placed outside of the second entrance. With the change to level 1 and 5, now the only dungeon you have reason to leave is

Level 2, which makes sense due to its easy and convenient location.

 

Change list:

  - New music

  - The dungeon no longer has multiple entrances. It just has two, but you complete the whole dungeon by going in the one main entrance.

  - The areas that you used to have to travel to now contain optional prizes.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 6:

This has, and will always be, been my favorite dungeon in the game. Not only is it full of puzzles, it has a high level of challenge. As such, I did not feel it warranted any real changes.

 

Change list:

- The music in Level 6 has changed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 7:

This level is designed for you to be aware of your surroundings, but primarily as a battle oriented dungeon. With the change to ice, the dungeon feels smoother in addition to me deciding that

I strongly dislike dark rooms. As such, this dungeon will see those removed.

 

Change list:

- All dark rooms have been removed from Level 7.

- The music for level 7 has changed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEVEL 8:

This dungeon is unique and serves as a great test of your battle ability before entering level 9. I did not feel it warranted any changes, but felt the original music was slightly unfitting.

 

Change list:

- The music for level 8 has changed.

Edited by Obderhode, 06 September 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Mani Kanina]

Okay so, with the promise of things getting better with some changes, I got back to this quest again. I played through level 3 and had a much better experience than previously with level 1 and 2. I also started a new file to get a feel for what you did to level 1. (Though that's about it for that file.)

So, I thought I'd share my thoughts on random things as I play through this quest. Since I'm fairly analytic I do this anyway, and some of my views might be of worth to you!

Things so far

• For some reason the overworld theme is the ALTTP arrangement of the main theme, rather than the GB Zelda one.
• The new level 1 palette does look more like sewers but... the previous one looked freaking amazing and was the best looking area in the game. Ergo, I think this is a downgrade.

This bomb drop will almost guaranteed be lost to first time players, as they will pick it up and only after the fact realise that they have no bomb bag. (I know I did.)

This blue trap does not go right. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but it's certainly illogical.

The bushes on this screen and the screen to the left of it are super awkward. Putting destroyable terrain on the very edge of a screen is a big no, especially if it's somewhere the player has to go. Ideally, I'd put the sword barrier (bushes) on this screen only instead, and probably a bit more in the middle.

I always find it awkward when push blocks can only go in certain directions, but it's not immediately obvious which directions those are. Especially when it's mixed with four way ones for pressure plate puzzles like this. It's not awful or anything, but it's not exactly great either.

Level 3 was great overall, my only gripe with it is this screen, and a more meta problem.*1
It's not really obvious that this is an enemy kill screen. However, with meta knowledge of how ZC works, it kind of is anyway. (By process of elimination.) It's a bit awkward, but whatever. The issue here is that I think it's a bit tight on space to fight the enemies. And the fact that the first time I came into this room from the right, I ended up walking right into the spawning zone of one of the enemies. I'd move that enemy's spawn point to above the grave, and then move the enemy who spawns there to the lower left corner of the fighting area.

It's not that hard to dodge the stuff when you know where it is, the problem is that first time when entering the room.

• I'm not sure if I'd consider the first bonus dungeon a bonus dungeon, consider just how powerful and good the reward is. (Ergo, making the reward pretty much a necessity.)
• Does the boss in level 3 drop magic? The first time I went in to the fight I had no magic, and I couldn't find a way to damage it. And running out of magic could be considered somewhat of an issue at this point in the game.
• There is a hookshot glitch that lets you walk on the lava in the room before the boss room in level 3. (By hookshoting the green target points.) I forgot to take a screenshot of this, but it should be obvious what I mean, right?
• I'm constantly flooded with rupees that I have no idea what to spend it on. Before I was even done with level 1 I went outside and bought the larger rupee wallet in order to be able to carry it all. Maybe consider making the default wallet size 500 and the expanded one 999 or something? I know I can buy a seed satchel expansion, but I honestly don't feel like I'd need it. And at the point after I beat level 3 I was expecting to have found something else to invest in. Maybe I missed a shop or something?
• There is no Key counter on the HUD. I know I can open my status screen to see, but really, it's a convenience thing.
• Speaking of the HUD, the map name of level 3 goes on top of the minimap, making the dungeon seem to have less rooms than it does. This might be true for other dungeons too, and is probably worth checking out.

• 
  
• 
  

One of the major gripes I have is that there is way too much narrative text in the quest. And I'm not saying that as to make a jab at the plot, really. The plot could have been really enjoyable if it was executed better. Like, for example, before the game properly starts, we have a long text section followed by an interactive cutscene, a none-interactive cutscene, and then more dialogue. It's only after this point we got to control Link. Now I'd like to assert that if the game started from the point where Link gets the telepathic message, we'd not really lose much of anything from the narrative. But players would have a way more positive outlook on the story. (Player retention rate is something you have to consider.)

Most of the backstory given right away when you start the quest is not really needed, and would better serve as optional story elements to be uncovered by the player. In writing you often hear the expression "show, don't tell", and I feel that this is very much true for video games as well. This doesn't mean that you can't use text to convey story, just that you need to have a better injection method. Now I'll admit, I haven't been paying much attention to story, so this may be completely off the mark, but, here is an idea. Instead of having a cutscene that shows the oracle getting cursed/posesd/whatever, why not have an old guy or someone living in the meteor crater that tells you about this through his perspective. (This may not actually logically work depending on the narrative, but I'm sure you could figure something out.)

Now you might think that this way to get the story to the player is opposite of "show, don't tell", that I mentioned earlier. Because I mean, removing an interactive cutscene for a text dialogue goes against that, right? No, not really. This is more about how narrative works rather than a literal interpretation of the statement. After all, a book isn't a visual medium, so you can't "show" things in that sense. Another way to put it would be that you want to show the reader/player what is happening, not inform them. An example would be that in a book you know that a certain character is angry by their actions, and how they speak, not because there is a line that says "X was angry".

There is not really a need per say of a cutscene showing the oracle getting captured, the player can already assert this from the telepathic message that Link gets. (Also, I'll admit that the connection that the town you see in the cutscene is the same as the one in crater didn't really click with me until I started this new file.) I can understand if you don't want to cut it though, considering the amount of work you put into it. But the origins story of the world that happens before the interactive cutscene? That really needs to go and instead get backed into various NPCs dialogue. Beside, it's more fun for the player to figure out the backstory on their own, rather than getting it in their face when they start the quest. It's also worthwhile to consider if it's important or not for the player to have that knowledge to enjoy the game. As I mentioned earlier, the telepathic message Link gets is really all that is needed at the start for an enjoyable experience. The player gets an immediate objective, a villain is painted up, and there is a reason why the main character would care.

Consider ALTTP for a bit. There is a backstory in the intro cinematic if you wait for it, but it's avoidable. (I think the GBA version forces it on the fresh save data though...) Now, the entire game is still cohesive and pretty much just as enjoyable if you didn't watch it, it's just that your perspective on the lore won't be as deep. ALTTP still has quite a bit of story, both optional and forced. For example, Link getting wanted signs and shit in kakariko is entirely optional plot points, but it does make the game deeper. The key point here is that the narrative that is required to understand the plot is forced, the rest the player can seek out on their own. And the part that is forced is generally given to the player in "show-y" way.

You know the darkworld in ALTTP is bad and twisted from the first time you enter it. Not because someone says so, but because you get to first hand experience it. You see yourself getting turned into a rabbit, and you get to see the fate of others who have entered the darkworld. You don't even need to talk to those two, you can tell just by looking at them, that something has gone horribly wrong. (The musical cues also helps a lot!) The NPCs still let you know what's going on if you talk to them, but that's optional.



At the end of the day, I can't tell you what exactly you should do to make the narrative the best way for this quest. That would be something I think only you can figure out if you consider making changes. But what I can tell you is the result of what is currently in the quest: And that is a dull experience where I just want to get past all the message boxes as soon as possible to get back to doing what's fun. Because reading the text in this quest isn't enjoyable. (And don't take that the wrong way either, I actually a very active reader of literature.) And I dread beating a dungeon because I get another long segment of text, that I neither pay much attention too nor find interesting. From a glance at the plot though? I think it's definitely good, though not really original. It's just your method of giving the plot to the player.

If you want exercise, consider playing LA, OoA, and OoS again. The former of the three does plot differently than the other two, but I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find players who got bored of reading the plot related dialogue in those games the first time. (Though there are complaints on the Owl in LA.)

So yeah, I'll get back to playing this when I have the time.



*1: Basically, the hint boxes in the dungeons are problematic. I can go into details if you want... but basically it comes down to two things:
A. They pretty much give out solutions, not hints.
B. There is way too much text in them considering what information they convey.

[Mani Kanina]

Oh boy, played through level Tower of time up and started to on level 5 today. Let me tell you, I saw a lot of things I don't like. :I
I'm to tired to put it into words currently, but one of my largest gripes is turtle rock. Which is a dungeon I'd recommend entirely remaking from scratch.

[Obderhode]

Oh boy, played through level Tower of time up and started to on level 5 today. Let me tell you, I saw a lot of things I don't like. :I
I'm to tired to put it into words currently, but one of my largest gripes is turtle rock. Which is a dungeon I'd recommend entirely remaking from scratch.

 

I appreciate feedback, I do, but honestly, there is no way I'm changing anything else unless it was some serious terrible bug someone found. When I made the game, I did expect a more positive feedback from the community, but at least I find the game fun and that is good enough for me. At this point though, I do believe Zelda Classic was a hobby that is now done with. I only check the forums on the off chance some really interesting project is completed and/or to see if my quest received any activity.

 

I do understand how Turtle Rock can be annoying, but this is implying that a lot of the other things (Tower of Time, Level 4.etc) weren't enjoyable. If it was just Turtle Rock you hated, feel free to keep going. If it was more, then just don't continue. If you aren't having fun, then I wouldn't want you continuing to play because a game should be fun to the person playing it.

Edited by Obderhode, 09 September 2015 - 09:24 PM.

[Mani Kanina]

I appreciate feedback, I do, but honestly, there is no way I'm changing anything else unless it was some serious terrible bug someone found. When I made the game, I did expect a more positive feedback from the community, but at least I find the game fun and that is good enough for me. At this point though, I do believe Zelda Classic was a hobby that is now done with. I only check the forums on the off chance some really interesting project is completed and/or to see if my quest received any activity.

That's a bit of a shame though. The reason I'm of the view that this quest could be really good if refined more.

 

I do understand how Turtle Rock can be annoying, but this is implying that a lot of the other things (Tower of Time, Level 4.etc) weren't enjoyable. If it was just Turtle Rock you hated, feel free to keep going. If it was more, then just don't continue. If you aren't having fun, then I wouldn't want you continuing to play because a game should be fun to the person playing it.

Nah I enjoyed Tower of Time and level 4, though neither of those two dungeons were as good as level 3. But hey, ups and lows are expected.

That being said, some design choices are highly questionable. A lot of the overworld "exploration" feels like pointless busy work that you're forced to do before getting to a new level. The elephant in the room is, of course, Turtle Rock. On paper it sounds like a great idea, but actually playing this dungeon? I was ready to give up on this quest if I didn't find the cheat map for the dungeon in this thread. (And even with that cheat map it wasn't that great.) I have no idea if even beating it actually did something though, as one of my viewers told me turtle rock is before level 6, not level 5. *shrug*

More stuff

At the point in the game where you reach the farm, potions would be really nice. This dialogue makes it seem like you can buy milk, a la OoT style. Since I have still not been able to locate a way to do this, I'm going to chalk this up to just be misleading flavour text.

This is what I mean with screens that you can enter but you're stuck and forced to head back right away.

This area gets extra bonus points for having two instances of this on two screens on the same time! Also, that rock on the left side looks cut off.



There is a bug with the pegasus boots that lets you destroy solid combos. Luckily it seems you can't sequence break past the boss in level 4 to the aurora stone, but I'll keep using this glitch to see if there are any locations where it can be abused.

So what happened here is that, I exited the cave, and got eaten by a likelike before I could even take a step, losing my magic shield. I should not really have to explain why this is terrible design, right?

I don't recall where I found this entrance, but you kind of get stuck here. Since you can't walk off the staircase tile, you can't use it. To get out of this the player needs to die or hit F6.

To the right of the time gate in the village you exit the screen, appearing inside these solid combos.

There are a billion of problems with turtle rock, but here is one! If you don't have the magic shield here, you will take damage when the platform hugs the south wall. And if you don't know how knockback works in ZC? You'll probably fall off too!

I like how this dungeon said that everything is in obvious spots, yet the obvious dive point in this screen is a one-way dive warp, fun!
In general, having a one-way dive warp on the same screen as an dive item is somewhat of an issue.

Once it's done processing I'll link you to the recording of yesterdays stream/playing. I'll probably stream more today.
Edit: Video should be here when it's done processing.
Edit2: Somehow that broke and is only the first hour-ish of the 4hour~ session.

Edited by Lunaria, 11 September 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Mani Kanina]

If you'd allow me, (You'd have to send the key,) I could make an alternative release of the quest that features some refinement changes that I think it could use. Anyway, the recordings of my streamed session seem to mess up on hitbox, I'll get back to you if I sort it out.

More

There is a glitch in the past version of the town that makes it so you can go out of bounds, hilarity ensures.


You can enter the intro cutscene area again!

Or just, you know, casual walk into some the screens used in it.

Alternatively, you can get stuck up here.

• I don't find the confusion status effect that is built into ZC to be something that should be used. Randomly wasting your super bombs and potions just because you got hit really stinks.

[WindRobe]

i will say this, this quest deserves a sequel but sadly blake is retired from zquesting but its all good im still enjoying this great quest.

[Mani Kanina]

Good news everyone!

I have created a torrent file that contains all the videos from all my streaming sessions. It does not have the segment in which I did level 3 though, since I didn't stream that the regular way.
You can find it here: [Link]