1463 replies to this topic

[Avalee]

I am in Level 9 and still have the wooden boomerang. Am I suppose to have the upgrade yet? Also what about the 2nd Wallet? Thanks for any help.

Avalee

[Yloh]

So I started playing this quest, and I suddenly lost all my Zelda Classic save data.... 

 

That had happened to me when I cleared the second dungeon. Since then, I make a backup of my save files.

I am in Level 9 and still have the wooden boomerang. Am I suppose to have the upgrade yet? Also what about the 2nd Wallet? Thanks for any help.

Avalee

 

You will get both items after level 9. If you really want to know, look at the spoiler tab below.

 

Spoiler

You will get a new boomerang at level 10. You will get the giant's wallet at the third arena. The third arena and level 10 will open up after you complete level 9. 

Edited by Yloh, 28 February 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Avalee]

Thank you for the help about the boomerang and the wallet. Hopefully I have picked up all my skulls. I have 14 skulls and I am just starting Level 9.

Avalee

[Russ]

It sounds like you're missing one skull. Have you finished the trading sequence and done the Jungle Crypt yet?

[Air Luigi]

 

Typo

 

And a question... The sound test has lots of songs that weren't included in the quest. Why? o.o

 

[Evan20000]

There's only 4-5 if my memory is right. The rest are in there, even if they're only played once or only under certain conditions.

[Kwolfgames]

This quest has an adjustable difficulty system. If you find yourself constantly blocked by the difficulty, have you tried lowering it? After you've died a few times, a passage appears on the OW starting screen and gives you the option to make the game easier. That being said, difficulty in itself is not a bad thing, unfair difficulty is, but this quest is always fair. Tough but fair. A game being too difficult for you may mean it's just not a game for you though, sure.

 

To be perfectly honest, the difficulty feels like the following:

Hero = extreme

Normal = Hard

Easy = Normal

Very Easy = Easy

I've since downgraded, and easy feels more like the usual normal you find in most games. Heck, I'm still dying, but's its not every other screen now.

 

As for not being able to guess the bosses' weaknesses immediately, that's part of the gameplay (having to try all your items on an enemy until you find what works is typical Zelda fare), I'm not following why it's a bad thing.

 

Then I take you've never heard of "Player Training." To explain, I'll be using Twilight Princess 1st dungeon. The item you get in there is the Wind Boomerang. You often use it to hit multiple switches, destroy leave piles and use bomb bugs to destroy boulders. Now that last bit is EXTREMELY important, because you use that same method to hurt the boss. How did you know to do this? Simple, the game was training you the entire time, by making puzzles that would require it.

 

Now, in this quest I've run into exactly one stage that's done this right, and that's Lvl 5. How is that the case, you might ask? Well, there are a number of rooms where you can use the hookshot and bypass spike traps. There's also a bunch of Blue armos knights whose shields you destroy with the hammer. Remember those two things? Now, take a look at how the boss fight went. Boss jumps in the air, slams into the ground and stuns you. You hookshot out of the way of his charge and smash his sheild with your hammer. Now how in the world did you figure that out? Remember the skipping the spike traps? Remember destroying the sheilds with your hammer? That's Player Training. You teach the player skills they will need against the boss.

 

This occurs again in the sunken city (the zora place with all the moths). You (eventually) figure out that fire does a real number on the little moths and their nests. The boss is a giant Moth. Put 2 and 2 together and you use the candle on the boss, and it goes down without much trouble. Again, the you were trained in how to kill the boss.

 

Text strings do not teach player skills, especially after spending at least an hour in a dungeon. You will not remember the string, you will remember everything you did in the dungeon up to that point. Players will only remember the string after leaving the dungeon and entering the hint shop and heading back to the boss. If you trained the Player properly, these hint shops would not be necessary, because the player should have figured out the weakness.

Response in green.

 

Player training is friggin' important yo, and something this quest severely lacks.

Edited by Kwolfgames, 28 February 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Air Luigi]

Response in green.

 

Player training is friggin' important yo, and something this quest severely lacks.

 

You was trained various times about using the lens, when there are hammer pots smashed... and still, you don't catch it. 

 

If you think Twilight Princess is the standard of difficulty... well, it is expected than you find this quest hard. Nintendo games are painfully easy and they treat the players like they were stupid. Games should require at least a minimum effort from the player, IMO.

[The Satellite]

While I don't agree that all Nintendo games are like that, I definitely agree that Twilight Princess is a really bad example to use. It's a fun game, but pretty easy and most of its bosses are really pathetic.

[TheLegend_njf]

While I don't agree that all Nintendo games are like that, I definitely agree that Twilight Princess is a really bad example to use. It's a fun game, but pretty easy and most of its bosses are really pathetic.

Didn't Navi tell the player to open the door by pressing "A" in Ocarina of Time?

[Kwolfgames]

The same thing happens in LOZ: Ocarina of Time. 1st dungeon, you get the slingshot, and you use it to knockdown a ladder and hit eye switches. The boss of the dungeon has a giant eye. Guess what you use to knock it down and where you aim. Again, Player Training.

 

Also, Wind Waker, 1st dungeon. You get the grapple hook and use it to traverse the dungeon. Arrive in the boss room, and there's a tail in the roof. Use the grapple hook to pull the tail and some of the roof caves in. After the shell is gone, you again use the grapple hook on the eye to knock it down. Again, Player Training.

 

Also, when you're an adult and in the forest dungeon. You use the bow to shot paintings to fight the 4 poe sisters. And the final poe sister you even use the bow to hit the one that's rotating. Now, admittedly there's a bit of a fault in the dungeon in that there's nothing that train's you to volley the ball of light back, but that also harken's back to the fight with Agnahim.

 

Seriously, practically all of the official Zelda games do this.

 

Also, there was no real indication that "Hammer Post = Use Lens Of Truth." It more often signals that something is off and there's something there that you need to do. Remeber, there's also the Lens of Truth icons used in every other room that hint to that. If you want to teach the player that it means something, use both in the same room, and then go from there. To me, they where just these odd things put here and there, and I honestly figured it was for decor, not an actual hint, given that there's already a much more obvious hint in the form of the Len's of Truth Icon.

[Evan20000]

The same thing happens in LOZ: Ocarina of Time. 1st dungeon, you get the slingshot, and you use it to knockdown a ladder and hit eye switches. The boss of the dungeon has a giant eye. Guess what you use to knock it down and where you aim. Again, Player Training.
 
Also, Wind Waker, 1st dungeon. You get the grapple hook and use it to traverse the dungeon. Arrive in the boss room, and there's a tail in the roof. Use the grapple hook to pull the tail and some of the roof caves in. After the shell is gone, you again use the grapple hook on the eye to knock it down. Again, Player Training.
 
Also, when you're an adult and in the forest dungeon. You use the bow to shot paintings to fight the 4 poe sisters. And the final poe sister you even use the bow to hit the one that's rotating. Now, admittedly there's a bit of a fault in the dungeon in that there's nothing that train's you to volley the ball of light back, but that also harken's back to the fight with Agnahim.
 
Seriously, practically all of the official Zelda games do this.
 
Also, there was no real indication that "Hammer Post = Use Lens Of Truth." It more often signals that something is off and there's something there that you need to do. Remeber, there's also the Lens of Truth icons used in every other room that hint to that. If you want to teach the player that it means something, use both in the same room, and then go from there. To me, they where just these odd things put here and there, and I honestly figured it was for decor, not an actual hint, given that there's already a much more obvious hint in the form of the Len's of Truth Icon.

I'd contest that some of the same patterns apply in levels 1 and 2. Level 1, the candle outright instakills the crabs throughout the level and deals huge amounts of damage to the boss. Level 2, bombs and arrows are the best ways to deal with the minimoldorms which also work against the boss. The lens issue, I definitely see your point and I really could have done a better job with that. I would say though that you're adequately trained for the boss in level 4. You're slowly introduced to its attack patterns throughout the level and by the time to you make it to the boss room, you find that it has a weakness similar to another enemy you've faced.

Again though, I appreciate your well thought out posts. Discussion like this is definitely helpful to everyone making a game.

[Kwolfgames]

I'd contest that some of the same patterns apply in levels 1 and 2. Level 1, the candle outright instakills the crabs throughout the level and deals huge amounts of damage to the boss. Level 2, bombs and arrows are the best ways to deal with the minimoldorms which also work against the boss. The lens issue, I definitely see your point and I really could have done a better job with that. I would say though that you're adequately trained for the boss in level 4. You're slowly introduced to its attack patterns throughout the level and by the time to you make it to the boss room, you find that it has a weakness similar to another enemy you've faced.

Again though, I appreciate your well thought out posts. Discussion like this is definitely helpful to everyone making a game.

I can remember every boss but the one for lvl 4. Which is weird since these most certainly aren't vanilla creatures.

 

Lil edit below, spoilers abound tho.

 

Spoiler

Edit: Oh wait, the Scourge! Actually, he was just a big armos knight, so he didn't really have any trick to him other than smack his back a lot. You don't need the len's of truth once you realize that either, so you can just tank him, chug potions and smack him a bunch with your sword. He was the least interesting of all of them. (and yes, that includes the little crab, who I thought was cute till he kicked my ass. Fun lil dude.)

 

I also didn't quite have the bow till after lvl 1, but that boss was honestly fairly easy once you got that if you hit it first, you take no damage yourself. I still disagree with 2, since I used the arrows more than anything since damaging the minimoldroms didn't knock them back. Then there's the Pols Voice "shooting gallery" for what I believe is one of the last keys you get in the dungeon. Even those snake things from Link's awakening functioning more like the red/blue snake things from the original rather than their original incantation as snake dodongos.(mini-miniboss in Link's  awakening, during the slime dungeon where you got the dash boots.) While I dunno if it's quite possible, if they functioned more like how they originally did, perhaps that might alleviate the problem of lvl 2?

 

And as much as I diss lvl 2, that boss was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in this engine. It's quite the leap from 2.10's static images with trapped enemies was weak points. The bosses are pretty much the highlight of the quest, really. It's fun to see such dynamic enemies that aren't "stuck on a rail" as they were previously. Speaking of which, I loved the end of the trading quest. I was honestly not expecting that to be there.

Edited by Kwolfgames, 28 February 2014 - 09:01 PM.

[Evan20000]

The trading quest was one of the most fun parts of the quest to make. I tried to make it humorous (if not slightly perverse) and memorable.

[Air Luigi]

I'm playing Rustle Basin now, and I'm near the end...

I'm appreciating a lot more this time the design and the idea. I discovered that the vires were atracted by the meat...

The problem with this level is the lack of enemy variation (well, this is a constant problem in the quest, but peaks here). I think adding two more enemy types to the fire parts would help a lot... Killing vires everywhere gets old fast (and the level is long).

It's something you really should consider for a future update.

Edited by Air Luigi, 28 February 2014 - 09:12 PM.