1463 replies to this topic

[xenomicx]

Arrows are pretty useful on her, yeah. 

Thanks...I got her hit my 5 good hits with the staff, then arrowed her to death from a distance. Beat the Bear and got my Golden Arrows. Now on to the bonus dungeon!

[flitchard]

So, when can I trade this fish away, and where?

[Air Luigi]

So, when can I trade this fish away, and where?

 

After L7, you will find a fisherman in a new town

[Jamian]

I keep carrying a coconut around, I feel like I should already have met someone to swap it with. Who must I give it to?

[The Satellite]

There's a guy in the first town who wanted to make a fruit salad but was too lazy. He's in one of the houses.

[Air Luigi]

I keep carrying a coconut around, I feel like I should already have met someone to swap it with. Who must I give it to?

 

See in the first village of the quest and feel embarrassed! O_O

 

PD: Meh, I will claim vengeance ¬¬

Edited by Air Luigi, 27 February 2014 - 08:01 PM.

[justin]

yup.  i think i'm going to dislike lvl10....  question, is it possible to get to lvl10 earlier on?  don't know why i didn't explore that area better before.  looks like all you need is a wand and a superbomb, or is the dungeon just closed up if you get there?

[The Satellite]

Level 10 won't be opened until you speak to an NPC you can't reach until after level nine is complete.

[Air Luigi]

yup.  i think i'm going to dislike lvl10....  question, is it possible to get to lvl10 earlier on?  don't know why i didn't explore that area better before.  looks like all you need is a wand and a superbomb, or is the dungeon just closed up if you get there?

 

You need to speak with a npc in Zelda's house for open the dungeon, so, you can't reach L10 before L9.

 

PD: LOL ¬¬

Edited by Air Luigi, 27 February 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[The Satellite]

At least you were more detailed than me this time.

[judasrising]

Push the eye statue around; it'll scratch across the floor and make an arrow. Now, in each room, you have to look at the eye and the arrow. If the eye is staring at you, then the arrow is pointing in the right direction. If the eye is turned away from you by a certain amount, twist the arrow by that same amount to find the right door to go through. For instance, if the arrow points right, but the eye statue is looking 90 degrees clockwise of you, twist the arrow 90 degrees clockwise, which points down, so you head through the southern door.

Does that make any sense? If not, I can just go get the maze path.

As for Medusa, seconding what TS said, arrow her. Getting in close can do more damage, but also puts you at a much higher risk of getting hit. Slow and steady pays off in this fight. It's in a lot of ways the same strategy you have to use to take down Blighted Abyss's boss.

Thanks Russ but i am still doing something very wrong in that maze    

[Evan20000]

Spoiler

Left, Down, Up, Right, Right

[judasrising]

Spoiler

Left, Down, Up, Right, Right

Thanks Evan20000

 

And i got my third key

[Kwolfgames]

I disagree. I've been able to do the boss rush on hero mode without potions, Nayru's Love or the cane. It's more or less just learning every boss's pattern. I also find the bonus level (namely the boss) tougher than the boss rematches. If you're still having a hard time, you can always abuse Nayru's Love and wait for it to refill between rounds. The more you practice them, the better you get at them and eventually it will feel second nature!

Sigh.

 

This right here is the exact same trap I've seen literally every game dev fall into. "I can beat this on the hardest difficulty with no additional powerups, potions, etc!" Such is not the case with new players. In fact, its the easiest way to drive players away from it. Difficulty does not equal fun, and it never will. It equals a challenge, of which only some people like.

 

While this quest does show off some truly incredible stuff from 2.50, it is by no means the greatest.

 

Massive spoilers and a rant about the quest itself.

 

Spoiler

For starters, there's the difficulty, which is considerably higher than the usual nintendo standard. Second boss and you already need about two potions and possibly all available heart containers to beat it. Of course, there's the "secret" weakness it has, but there's absolutely no training for it. In fact, the item you get in the dungeons is barely even required to beat it. In fact, I was fairly certain that it's actual weakness was arrows due to the number of times I had to shoot Pols Voice. Heck, there weren't even Dodongo's in the dungeon to give any sort of "Psst, hey the boss might actually be weak to this since there's so many enemies showing you that they are weak to them." And in the next one, I thought it was the bombs that were the best bet, since those fire mimics could be handled easily to a well placed bomb. And the fact that Dodongos where in the room right next to the entrance. Turns out arrows, sword, and the hammer make the best work. 4th boss was essentially a big armos knight, so I figured I could beat him with the bombs, since those do well with regular ones. NOPE. Sticking close and spamming sword was the best strat. 5th was actually decent overall, since the dungeon item actually came into play, unlike the last 4. 6th boss was, eh really, since the was the rather blatant hint found right behind the dungeon "Moths are weak to bombs and fire!". Still neat tho.

 

 

Then, there's the often strange choice of design, most glaring of all is the ones dealing with the lens of truth. While I've done up to the halfway point of lvl 7, I've run into a number of locations where you must use the lens of truth to pass, but given no indication to do so, unlike the dungeon where you found it.

Notable locations are:

-the "Angler" cave (the one with the fish on it). there is a room with two hidden unlit torches which need the lens, but given no indication you need the lens to see them.

-the entrance to the guardhouse. There's a third eye statue hidden, but again, no indication that you need the lens of truth to see it.

 

And lastly, having a new player require needing to buy a red potion on normal before beating the first boss should raise a flag that perhaps the overall difficulty is perhaps a tad too high for someone that isn't quite so steeped in knowledge of this particular engine. Not everyone is a grand master ZC player.

 

 

I really do want to like this quest, but every so often the difficulty rears its head and then I have to stop. It simply isn't as fun as, well, pretty much every other official zelda title. It's still fun, and I end up coming back, but with painfully slow progress.

Edited by Kwolfgames, 27 February 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[Evan20000]

I really want to thank you for a long, well thought out post. I'll try and address this as best as I can.

Sigh.

 

This right here is the exact same trap I've seen literally every game dev fall into. "I can beat this on the hardest difficulty with no additional powerups, potions, etc!" Such is not the case with new players. In fact, its the easiest way to drive players away from it. Difficulty does not equal fun, and it never will. It equals a challenge, of which only some people like.

 

Very true, but when the purpose of the postgame content is to provide a challenge (catering to that particular audience), would changing it not be doing more harm than good to the audience it was intended for. I get that things like the bonus level and the boss rush are hard. They're very very hard. That's why they're not required to finish the game; purely an optional thing for people that are into that sort of thing.

 

While this quest does show off some truly incredible stuff from 2.50, it is by no means the greatest.

 

Massive spoilers and a rant about the quest itself.

 

Spoiler

For starters, there's the difficulty, which is considerably higher than the usual nintendo standard.

 

Second boss and you already need about two potions and possibly all available heart containers to beat it. Of course, there's the "secret" weakness it has, but there's absolutely no training for it. In fact, the item you get in the dungeons is barely even required to beat it.

I'll be honest here. This is due to a lack of planning with item distribution before quest development. I very well could have given out the ladder in the prison and the arrows/bow in Murky Palace, but I for some reason chose the other way. The ladder and the raft are probably my biggest regrets with this game due to their situational usefulness and general bugginess.

 

In fact, I was fairly certain that it's actual weakness was arrows due to the number of times I had to shoot Pols Voice. Heck, there weren't even Dodongo's in the dungeon to give any sort of "Psst, hey the boss might actually be weak to this since there's so many enemies showing you that they are weak to them."

So here's the funny part about that; the original intended weakness was arrows, but bombs proved to be far more effective than originally intended. After talking with testers, the consensus was that while the added weakness wasn't needed, it was a nice out for people having trouble with the boss.

 

 

And in the next one, I thought it was the bombs that were the best bet, since those fire mimics could be handled easily to a well placed bomb. And the fact that Dodongos where in the room right next to the entrance. Turns out arrows, sword, and the hammer make the best work.

I guess this one is subjective. I really feel that laying bombs behind you as the first phase is jumping around or when the second phase is immobile or trying to grab you is the best answer. The intent here was making a boss where there was no single weapon to beat it, but you can use whatever you are most comfortable with for the majority, but each attack has a specific slightly more effective counter.

 

4th boss was essentially a big armos knight, so I figured I could beat him with the bombs, since those do well with regular ones. NOPE.

The bomb-hit sound is due to a ZC engine bug with the way defenses are handled. I may have found a fix, but we'll see.

 

Sticking close and spamming sword was the best strat. 5th was actually decent overall, since the dungeon item actually came into play, unlike the last 4. 6th boss was, eh really, since the was the rather blatant hint found right behind the dungeon "Moths are weak to bombs and fire!". Still neat tho.

 

Then, there's the often strange choice of design, most glaring of all is the ones dealing with the lens of truth. While I've done up to the halfway point of lvl 7, I've run into a number of locations where you must use the lens of truth to pass, but given no indication to do so, unlike the dungeon where you found it.

Notable locations are:

-the "Angler" cave (the one with the fish on it). there is a room with two hidden unlit torches which need the lens, but given no indication you need the lens to see them.

-the entrance to the guardhouse. There's a third eye statue hidden, but again, no indication that you need the lens of truth to see it.

In retrospect, this is one of my biggest mistakes and you're absolutely right. See, the intent was to condition the player with suspicious areas, yet it didn't seem to work at all as intended for all players.

 

And lastly, having a new player require needing to buy a red potion on normal before beating the first boss should raise a flag that perhaps the overall difficulty is perhaps a tad too high for someone that isn't quite so steeped in knowledge of this particular engine. Not everyone is a grand master ZC player.

This was precisely why multiple difficulty settings were added. Difficulty is an entirely subjective thing in video games and there is no magic difficulty that will keep everyone happy. I did my best to try and encompass as broad as an audience as I could with the 4 difficulty settings, but realistically enemy damage isn't all that makes a game hard. If I had the time to make puzzles change, boss AI change and several other things variable to scale with the difficulty I would have, but alas that is a lot of development time which I simply didn't have the luxury of anymore.

 

 

I really do want to like this quest, but every so often the difficulty rears its head and then I have to stop. It simply isn't as fun as, well, pretty much every other official zelda title. It's still fun, and I end up coming back, but with painfully slow progress.

Well I'm glad you find it fun to a degree, but I really don't expect a fangame to be universally regarded as on par with the official series. While I'm flattered that several people seem to think so, expecting that as a consensus is just unrealistic. The official series is developed by an extremely talented group of people with decades of experience in game design and the Zelda series in general. I don't think I'd ever be able to match that level of game design skill.