207 replies to this topic

[Cyberventurer]

Not that bad, thankfully. A starting hint would be to look at the reward you got for clearing sadistic mode and paying attention to that.

Uh-oh.

 

I'll write down the soul names I remember and add onto it later when I feel up to another run, but even if there aren't more than this, I'm already intimidated, haha.

(Edit: Done)

 

Sadistic, Swiftly, Safely, Storyless, Solo, Standard, Skulls, Suffering

 

Also another thing regarding labyrinth master Autimecia I discovered; playing as Pall, you can use his mask form to blink in and out of the boss chamber, letting you leave the screen (and presumably not getting your stolen spells back without F6). But the bigger issue is that you can exit from the left or right to float around in the void instead. Can't go north; I assume the screen is on the highest row of a ZC map. But you can float around south from there to find Lunar Tower C and blink into it from a couple of rooms, whether or not it's part of your fragmented set.

 

Pall can also blink up into it from the room below to bypass needing a key, which would probably fall under creative use of game mechanics on its own, but I don't think ZC would stop you from being able to go back south from there even if the space became solid, as I think the system always lets you move backward to a previous screen if you're stuck on the border.

 

Minor cosmetic bit with Pall too - his humanoid form's mask release special, and his mask form in general, don't follow your custom palette choice.

 

Edit: Added a soul name.

Edited by Cyberventurer, 30 May 2025 - 01:26 PM.

[Russ]

Uh-oh.
 
I'll write down the soul names I remember and add onto it later when I feel up to another run, but even if there aren't more than this, I'm already intimidated, haha.

Like I said, just getting there is an ordeal.
 

Also another thing regarding labyrinth master Autimecia I discovered; playing as Pall, you can use his mask form to blink in and out of the boss chamber, letting you leave the screen (and presumably not getting your stolen spells back without F6). But the bigger issue is that you can exit from the left or right to float around in the void instead. Can't go north; I assume the screen is on the highest row of a ZC map. But you can float around south from there to find Lunar Tower C and blink into it from a couple of rooms, whether or not it's part of your fragmented set.
 
Pall can also blink up into it from the room below to bypass needing a key, which would probably fall under creative use of game mechanics on its own, but I don't think ZC would stop you from being able to go back south from there even if the space became solid, as I think the system always lets you move backward to a previous screen if you're stuck on the border.

I'm feeling especially dumb for not realizing this. Loammi can probably do the same thing. Ah well, at least it's not the worst thing in the world. We were worried about something like this happening in reverse, and people finding a hidden secret area like the one you left from by leaving from a more common way. Should be easy to fix at least.
 

Minor cosmetic bit with Pall too - his humanoid form's mask release special, and his mask form in general, don't follow your custom palette choice.

I know why that happens, and it should be an easy fix. Thanks!

[Cyberventurer]

Hmm. Well, a sub-1:30:00 Soul Hunt sadistic mode with a Pall kill wasn't enough to cut it. Either I can't play around in the special modes, I have to be faster still, and/or I'm missing more soul messages to account for.

 

Edit: Is it intended to be a "delayed instant death" if a grabby jelly latches onto you while you're in the water? Unless you can attack while swimming like Naiya, no amount of button mashing you can do will free you while you rot away in place.

Edited by Cyberventurer, 24 May 2025 - 05:25 PM.

[Moosh]

Edit: Is it intended to be a "delayed instant death" if a grabby jelly latches onto you while you're in the water? Unless you can attack while swimming like Naiya, no amount of button mashing you can do will free you while you rot away in place.

As I recall, Russ tried to fix this at one point and the jelly said "How bout I do, anyway?"

It could also be one of the fixes that got rolled back when at one point an outdated version of the script file got pushed. Or it could be this script is cursed. I can't name a single enemy that's given me personally more grief than the splitting jelly. It even has a constant in the script named after it:

const int G_STUPIDJELLYFISHSHIT = 265; //The total amount of stupid jellyfish shit happening that frame

[Cyberventurer]

Well after heavy F4ing, sub-1 hour sadistic normal mode Pall kill didn't do it either. I hope whatever the requirements are turn out to be easier than that because whew, I didn't have the time left to scavenge for more health pickups before making that cutoff and my best non-cheaty attempt got me to the eyeball phase, where I still got one-shot.

 

I think I need a couple days break before coming back, heh.

 

Edit:

const int G_STUPIDJELLYFISHSHIT = 265; //The total amount of stupid jellyfish shit happening that frame

 

Thankfully I had a party member but it certainly wasn't the most heroic end for a character in rogue-like mode!

 

Speaking of, while it's technically not a bug, there is an exploit in that mode if you play a fragmented run where if you're in danger of dying, you can use your map shortcut warp to go back to the hub. The central map you use for character switching comes with a free full heal when you interact with it.

 

Assuming you're not in a challenge area where that feature is disabled until you leave it. Which is where I was.

Edited by Cyberventurer, 24 May 2025 - 10:51 PM.

[Russ]

Hmm. Well, a sub-1:30:00 Soul Hunt sadistic mode with a Pall kill wasn't enough to cut it. Either I can't play around in the special modes, I have to be faster still, and/or I'm missing more soul messages to account for.

There may be some other conditions and you may be onto one of them.
 

Speaking of, while it's technically not a bug, there is an exploit in that mode if you play a fragmented run where if you're in danger of dying, you can use your map shortcut warp to go back to the hub. The central map you use for character switching comes with a free full heal when you interact with it.

Hrm. This is a good point... The return to start system was added recently but does make rogue like a lot easier. On the other hand, it solves a few issues in rogue like where you might have to F6, and thus would die.

[Cyberventurer]

HOW MUCH STUFF DID YOU ALL HIDE IN THIS GAME

 

Needed to kill some time so I spun up another casual partner run, ran into a character here and thought "oh, either a boss or a party member" and right as I realized it shouldn't be either of them because this is a key location, creepy music kicked in and they tried walking toward me.

 

 

Or is this just normal roamer boss behavior if you wait too long to engage them, and I somehow never noticed before?

[Russ]

HOW MUCH STUFF DID YOU ALL HIDE IN THIS GAME

So, so much. I wanted a game where you never run out of new things to discover. Unless you're grinding out the game for hundreds of hours or something.

That is normal roamer boss behaviour, but you can only trigger it in a couple of arenas. It's got to be one where the room is divided, with the roamer on one side and you on another, or the roamer otherwise stuck in a small space unless the screen is in a certain state.

 

They may have different dialogue in one particular area.

[Cyberventurer]

Minor map bug in Silver Springs, and now I'm wondering if it's the same in its equivalent spot in Reikon too. If you try to cross the lower-left waterfall on this screen from below (which you obviously can't do without Float), then the waterfall pushes you down through the vine and into the southern screen. Nothing stops you from just walking up and back into bounds, though.

 

 

And now I go back to shooting enemies as a skeleton sniper.

[Cyberventurer]

I should have reported this bug long ago. I figured it was just a ZC quirk, but I realized I can't actually be certain about that.

 

There's a bizarre no-clip exploit you can perform in any spot where you can stand next to both deep water and a solid object. By pushing against the water and then turning against a block on the same frame where you'd start entering, your character will walk forward through everything in your way until you 1) finally step into a deep water tile, or 2) scroll to the next screen.

 

 

Most of the time you'll likely end up stuck in a wall, but with some preplanning (or Blink) you can go directions you weren't meant to, or escape the current zone altogether.

[Russ]

That one, unfortunately, is a ZC bug, one we can't do anything to fix. Whoever coded entering/leaving water must have been drunk.

[Cyberventurer]

You know, I'm not even surprised that Sylvia's element-copying dash takes something random each time you use it on Autimecia. I did get one called Space, which passively drops a meteor or two on the screen. Is that unique from her fight, or is there a regular enemy that also offers that?

 

Speaking of, when playing the Soul Hunt mode, her boss fight ignores the requirement. I was able to engage and beat her when I found the zone early.

[Russ]

I did get one called Space, which passively drops a meteor or two on the screen. Is that unique from her fight, or is there a regular enemy that also offers that?

If I'm remembering correctly, space and time are the two rarest elements, but neither is unique to her. Space can be acquired from Boreas and Meteoras (the star enemies that sine wave vertically across the screen), while Time can be obtained from Bastille and his halt tomes, Sentinels (the flames you have to halt or death before they turn into blocks/statues), and Weeping Angels. Nearly every other element can be obtained from several enemies.

Fun fact: Did you notice the 16 elements she can use map to the first two rows of spells found in the normal labyrinths?
 

Speaking of, when playing the Soul Hunt mode, her boss fight ignores the requirement. I was able to engage and beat her when I found the zone early.

... Yup, I sure did forget to set that up. Whoops.

[Cyberventurer]

Okay so I'm not misremembering from an older run; rarely, certain zones seem to change "sub-theme" when fragmented. It's a pretty neat effect, but is there anything in particular that can trigger this, or is it purely up to random luck? I assume it's unique to Fragmented runs, though it's not a filterable selection in the area ban list.

 

 

I'm wondering if there are more strange soul messages I'm missing, so I'm trying out Soul Hunt to see if those change too or if it's limited to the ones you find in challenge areas. Also to just do Autimecia's quest again for the hell of it.

 

Edit: Also, is it normal for BB and Sylvia to not have any inventory screen dialogue? As far as I can remember, they're the only characters with story modes that lack it.

Edit2: Wait, Lumen and Bastille don't have it either. Maybe it's not a bug on their parts then.

Edited by Cyberventurer, 26 May 2025 - 07:21 AM.

[Ether]

There are 8 conditions in total. I don't believe any of them are more hidden than others.

 

The area skins are random! I can't actually remember if there's any others, they're pretty rare. Abysse D'Amour exists because at the time the Oops! All Sky seed rolled out, there weren't any sky-themed lake boss arenas, and they couldn't let that stop them. (Twilight Cliffs also made its debut in Oops! All Sky and was only slotted into a full labyrinth later.)