44 replies to this topic

[Moon]

What are some trends in quest design that you dislike?

[Eddy]

Sprite CSets used as overworld/dungeon palettes. They're supposed to be used solely for sprites and that's it, and there's also a reason why palettes exist. However, the only exception I have for this is with the Classic set (or anything that's like the classic set), since it actually works and can be used well. For any other tileset though, just no, it doesn't work well.

 

But then again, even if people continue to use this trend, it won't bother me that much, but I'll still kinda hate on it.

Edited by EddyTheOliveira, 22 November 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Shane]

Having to go through enemies without a sword. Why.

 

Also Leever 3s - nerfed, buffed, whatever. I hate them more than Death Knights and Magic Octoroks. That's saying a lot.

Edited by Shane, 22 November 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Moon]

Honestly I hate a quest that drags on to add more gameplay time. I can't stand that.

[Astromeow]

Crammed and over detailed screen using the latest trendy tileset.

[Shane]

Crammed and over detailed screen using the latest trendy tileset.

I agree about over detailing a screen. A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between good screen design and using a thousand ground details to make it look good. Back in 2009, maybe I wouldn't be designing my screens the way they are now, because it was a sin to not have a over detailed screen. I don't really know anyone that would use a tileset for the sake of following a trend, I know EZGBZ is trending, but I chose it because I love the visuals so damn much. <3

[LikeLike on fire]

Sprite CSets used as overworld/dungeon palettes. They're supposed to be used solely for sprites and that's it, and there's also a reason why palettes exist. However, the only exception I have for this is with the Classic set (or anything that's like the classic set), since it actually works and can be used well. For any other tileset though, just no, it doesn't work well.

 

But then again, even if people continue to use this trend, it won't bother me that much, but I'll still kinda hate on it.

 

 

i feel like that is a personal attack on me

[Eddy]

i feel like that is a personal attack on me

I was just stating an opinion, I didn't mean to attack anyone when I said that o_o

 

Though if that did hurt you, then I apologise.

Edited by EddyTheOliveira, 22 November 2014 - 08:26 AM.

[Shane]

i feel like that is a personal attack on me

I think he is referring to EZGBZ quests and projects as a lot of them tend to use sprite csets rather than the dozens of palettes provided within the tileset. I'm positive Eddy never intended to attack anyone.

[KingPridenia]

Inability to balance difficulty properly. See, you can make a quest difficult without being ridiculous, such as making you fight a room of 10 Death Knights or Mirror Wizzrobes in a room with limited mobility. Genuine difficulty is when you know it's fair and that when you die, you know it's your fault entirely. Fake difficulty is when you curse, pound your keyboard or hit your monitor in frustration screaming "WTF!?".

 

Another trend is a severe lack of beta testing. How can you submit a quest that has 10+ continue bugs or half the game broken? I mean I get it; we can't catch every single mistake. However, someone shouldn't play a quest and be unable to count the number of errors on his/her hands and feet alone within 10 minutes. Do the right thing; beta test your quest and try to find at least one person willing to play through your quest. From past experience, people have found bugs that I overlooked, despite several playthroughs. However, there was nothing show stopping such as an Armos missing an under combo and when you try to F6 in the dungeon, you're in a continue bug where you're in the upper left corner of screen 00 of that D-Map, Link non-existent.

 

So in summary:

-Inability to distinguish between fair and fake difficulty

-No or little effort to beta test

[strike]

Huge quests dungeons were you have to backtrack over and over. This isn't good design. No one likes dungeons like this! I don't know why they're trendy.

-Strike

[Nathaniel]

RedmageAdam mentioned inability to balance difficulty.  On a similar note...

 

Required processes that are very cumbersome, repetitive, require unnecessary memorization or note taking, or are boring in some way.  This is typically not difficult, but can be annoying.  Some examples include...

• A required room full of peahats to clear
• A room with multiple windrobes
• Excessive usage of easier darknuts in later parts of the game when you already or likely would have the hammer (unless you wish for generous heart collection with the blue ones)
• Block puzzles that are too obscure on possible directions
• Lost woods style screens with no clues anywhere on how to get through them
• Multiple lost woods style screens in the same area
• Too many enemies packed into a screen with not much walkable space
• Too many rooms with the exact same layout and/or enemy combinations

 

As for general overworld design:

• The desire to use every screen available for an overworld map, when you don't have enough ideas to fill it up, and thus end up with some nearly empty screens.  If you can't think of what to do with it, settle for a smaller overworld.
• An overworld whose hot spots (among used screens) are poorly distributed.  For example, many of them are clustered near each other, while many other parts of the overworld feel too insignificant.  Hot spots usually include anything that can be plot-related, such as level entrances, required cave entrances, towns, and buildings that take up most of one screen or more than one screen.

[nicklegends]

1.  Puzzles that, due to the design of the area, need to be completed more than once. I already solved it; why must I go through the motions again?

 

2.  Relying on default enemies. We all are familiar with Zelda 1's baddies by now; at least try to give them a different identity (via different graphics) or change their HP or something. The enemy editor can be a little inconsistent, but it's better than nothing.

 

3.  (Already mentioned:) Cluttered screens. I encourage quest makers to keep routes from one side of the screen to the other largely unobstructed, especially in the overworld. Navigation shouldn't be tedious, because you want the player to focus on discovery and puzzle-solving more than tree dodging.

[Dawnlight]

• People trying way too hard to mimic critically acclaimed quests/questmakers - I know some may feel pressured to create quests that live up to the standards of critically acclaimed quests in our DB so that they can have that kind of glory too. While there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from other quests, no one should be restrained by what critically acclaimed quests offer. In fact, if everyone were to mimic each other, then ZC would most likely end up like all the other milked franchises in video games. 
• Day and Night system -  It's counterproductive. It does not work well in Zelda Classic unless if you like dealing with heavy screen and warp management. 
• Heavy Scripting - While it's true that some scripts actually enhance a quest to allow a cleaner gameplay experience. Some may go way too far with scripts that it does the opposite of what it's intended to do. Scripts != quality. Not one bit.

[nicklegends]

The lowest-rated quests on the site are generally distinguished by

 

1) Bugs

2) Extremely inhibited movement

3) Extremely short length

 

If you can make a bug-tested game that lasts more than an hour and has good flow, you're already doing better than the authors of half the quests on our site.