5 replies to this topic

[KingPridenia]

So yeah, I haven't spoken too much since the Expo about my progress. After some thinking, I have a few things I want to keep in mind:

• I plan to raise the difficulty somewhat. Despite neither Eppy nor NewJourneysFire finding either of the two available Heart Containers in the overworld, neither had any real difficulty with the demo. I may raise a few enemy's damage ratings or make them more difficult in other ways (such as trickier room design). Looking back, it did seem I should have gone with my gut and kept the difficulty where it was.
• The Sand Dune Temple's boss is getting an HP nerf as well as taking longer in between teleports. Mostly due to feedback from Eppy.
• Level 2 needs some redesigning. I already know exactly how I'm going to do that, so no feedback is necessary on this item. Also, as per suggested by NewJourneysFire, in the room one right and one up from the start, that singular block is going to be pushable downwards only and not made push-wait.
• A set of blocks in the Abandoned Armoury will be redone so you can go back if needed and will no longer be push-wait.
• Rupee economy is going to go through a slight recession due to the fact it's too easy to get done with level 3 and the Sand Dune Temple with at least a few hundred Rupees and nothing else to buy (save for potions).

Some changes that I have already made at this time include, but are not limited to:

• Changed the trees by level 1 to just be a single burnable tree instead of a giant forest of them. This was suggested to me by Eppy in his stream.
• Getting to the Abandoned Armoury will now require shooting an explosive with an arrow to trigger its explosion to blow a rock up instead of shooting a random lever that makes a group of dead trees go poof. Mostly done due to the randomness of the former design choice.
• Added Battle of Olympus sound effects into the game, although I will need to raise their volume a bit so they're not drowned out by the other sounds. I think 1-2 dB each file should be adequate.
• Fixed a tile error near the first shop (tile just to the left of the cave entrance was fully walkable)

I am rather busy at this point in my life, but I do plan to eventually move on, implement all of the fixes and revamps listed above, and FINALLY get out of development hell and back on the road to having this quest completed so I can stop getting halfway through a quest and just letting it die (like Adam's Quest II). Next up should be Level 4: Mt. Saint Emily's Ice Cave, or just St. Emily Ice Cave for the mini-map. Bundle up heroes; it's going to be one cold and dangerous trek!

[Mani Kanina]

I can't actually comment on the difficulty on this quest, since I have not played it. But here is some food for thought since you plan on raising it:

A. Isn't this the start of the quest? A quest don't really need to start of hard, it just needs to be interesting. The difficulty is something that it should slide upwards throughout the quest. Also, you should never count optional content as required when judging difficulty, it's a design trap that leads to a whole sleeve of problems.

B. And while I don't think either Eppy or NJF are the proest of pros, they are both very experienced quest players. As such you should judge their feedback from that perspective, and consider how lesser skilled players may feel on the matter. The higher the difficulty of your quest, the higher you raise the barrier of entry.

[Eddy]

Everything looks great so far. I would advise against buffing difficulty near the start as well, but you can decide where to go with that, I don't really mind lel

[KingPridenia]

I can't actually comment on the difficulty on this quest, since I have not played it. But here is some food for thought since you plan on raising it:

A. Isn't this the start of the quest? A quest don't really need to start of hard, it just needs to be interesting. The difficulty is something that it should slide upwards throughout the quest. Also, you should never count optional content as required when judging difficulty, it's a design trap that leads to a whole sleeve of problems.

B. And while I don't think either Eppy or NJF are the proest of pros, they are both very experienced quest players. As such you should judge their feedback from that perspective, and consider how lesser skilled players may feel on the matter. The higher the difficulty of your quest, the higher you raise the barrier of entry.

 

With the optional stuff, would that count having a bit of a mini-dungeon thrown in for sword upgrades? I don't want an "upgrade or get owned" mentality, but I want sword upgrades to be something you SHOULD get, but not necessarily "have to". Armor rings I want to have be optional but useful, and I feel if the cap is Red Ring, I can balance enemy damage better. I mean the original was FAR worse designed. Level 2 with 4 hearts and Wooden Sword was manageable. Level 3 with Blue Ring, White Sword, Magical Shield and 6 hearts was significantly tougher, and without the Blue Ring was pretty much level 5 tier difficulty. I mean it is very hard to gauge difficulty when you're the one making it. There is no element of surprise; you already know what to do and what to expect. Some choices were poor admittingly, such as giving the Summoner a bit too much HP. Also, different play styles seem to influence it as well. The level 3 mini boss is a good example. More defensive players will have a harder time and from testing, I found being as aggressive as possible is the way to go. On the other hand, that same mentality in one of Jamian's quests is just asking for many game overs.

 

To be honest, I don't want to do anything TOO extreme to the game's difficulty. Just make it a little tougher early on and try to keep the difficulty curve in line with item progression. The fact that I'm scaling down damage is going to make it tricky. Pretty much, I'm getting rid of that god-awful vanilla damage system where Cracktoroks hit for 10 hearts with their magic and Death Knights hit for 20 hearts with their swords. That's not balanced; that's stupid. Then again, neither enemy is exactly good design; either you stun them and cheese them, or you don't and get flattened. I at least want to make it a bit more reasonable; if I can help it, I want nothing to do more than 1 1/2 hearts per hit with the Red Ring, 2 hearts tops.

[Mani Kanina]

I mean it is very hard to gauge difficulty when you're the one making it. There is no element of surprise; you already know what to do and what to expect. Some choices were poor admittingly, such as giving the Summoner a bit too much HP. Also, different play styles seem to influence it as well. The level 3 mini boss is a good example. More defensive players will have a harder time and from testing, I found being as aggressive as possible is the way to go.

Exactly, this is why a good range of playtesters is desired in game development. Which can be hard to get here, but it's something to strive towards.


Good luck~

[Alucard648]

Exactly, this is why a good range of playtesters is desired in game development. Which can be hard to get here, but it's something to strive towards.
Good luck~

What about including some such powerful enemies in post-game levels, like the same vanilla Death Knights, but with Damage cranked up even further, like giving them ability to shoot whirlwinds. In the marathon dungeon with no shortcuts. And that insta-killer invisible Gohma.