10 replies to this topic

[Aevin]

Shortly after the release of The Hero's Memory, Eppy did a great let's play of the quest. I tagged along in the chat, and someone from PureZC asked me, "Would you ever consider making a DX version of this quest?" Now, he meant no harm, but it really got me to thinking. Usually, with DX versions, it means that there's something that really needs improvement, something missing from the original. For example, Link's Awakening was lacking color, so Link's Awakening DX added a few bonus features and added color to the game. But I had already created the game I wanted to create. What did this player think was so lacking in my quest that a deluxe version was needed? What would a DX version entail? After seeing more of what was out there and what other quest makers were working on, the expectations became clear. If I could make a good quest without scripts or custom bosses, then surely I could make an even better quest if I did use those tools. And so I set out to live up to those expectations, which I believed a lot of players shared, and the Hero's Memory: DVN-002 was born.

I'm sure anyone who does a lot of creative work can see the problem with this immediately. You see, the original quest was made with very little outside input. It was my dream fangame, taking my absolute favorite levels from the Zelda series and putting them together in a complete fangame which used the simple Zelda 1 engine but nice looking graphics from the whole series. I made the quest because I wanted to see what it would be like, what was around the next corner, in each new cave. In short, I made the quest for ME, and anyone else enjoying it was just a bonus.

And now, I'm trying to make a new quest, based on this idea of "giving the players what they want." I created this quest project page to make the process more transparent. Why? Because I needed to make sure I was on the right track. I needed to seek approval and make sure I was really doing a good job in giving players what they wanted. In spite of not really believing in the idea of demos, I made a demo and an expo page, all because I need to know that I'm doing things "the right way." Even the dungeon choices aren't for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm still choosing my favorite dungeons from each game I feature, but since I've already used my favorites from the Zelda series, it means that all the games featured in this sequel are the ones I didn't care for as much. In the process of trying to make a quest for everyone else, I never asked what was in it for me to enjoy.

Which, of course, makes it very difficult to keep the enthusiasm up. I feel like I'm afraid of messing up, afraid of people criticising the quest when it's in such an early state. The demo and expo made me extremely anxious, and while people generally seemed to like the demo, it was an overall negative experience for me. Having my early work under a microscope, having to explain what is and isn't intentional, what will and won't be in the final quest, how much better everything will be in the end ... And if I have to hear one more person complain about my bomb walls I might just explode myself. I try to remain positive, but having my work so heavily criticized makes me question whether it's all worth it. Some people would say that I don't take constructive criticism well, but that's not it. The problem is that I truly am my own worst critic, so with VERY few exceptions, I've already anticipated the criticism I receive and so much more. I have an absolutely cruel attention to detail that just makes me beat myself up for not having time to fix everything that I already know people will point out.

Which is all just to say ... I'm going to take a short break from working on this, and when I get back to it, I'm going to try to work in the shadows a lot more. Updates here won't be as frequent, because I think it's important to focus on building a quest that I love, rather than sharing my ideas and seeking approval. The quest will be released when it's done, and I hope you all will have faith that it will be a good one. People seemed to enjoy what I produced the first time, and I am pretty sure many will enjoy this when it's finished. But ultimately, I have to make something that I love, and hope that others can enjoy it, too.

Thanks so much to followers here and others for your support. I really do appreciate it. I'm sorry I won't be keeping you updated on the progress, but I believe the quest will end up better this way.

[Shane]

Your quest will only have the best result if you enjoy making it.

It seems like I got more and more criticism when I aimed to please the community instead of myself in the past years. I was scared to use my personal screen-design style because back in the day, you were heavily recommended to spend an hour or so on just one screen to make something that would be considered perfect. It felt like a standard back then. So the fact I did constantly got criticism after an hours worth of work was anti-motivating for me. Eventually one "epic" project after another, my attempts failed. And I bashed myself for it. Until I had enough of wanting to please the community, that is.

I decided to make screens I wanted to make. I didn't care much about filling each screen with details. I wanted my quest to look like an official gameboy Zelda. Not some screenshot of the year DoR screen. And guess what? It's gotten a lot more positive feedback than my previous works. So yes, making stuff your own way is better to an extent.

Keep going, I want to see a finished product rather than a series of weekly updates.

[Avaro]

I see where you are coming from, Aevin. Though, criticism (especially constructive criticism) is never a bad thing. You don't have to accept it and you don't have to take it, nor do you have to rely on it. That's why it's so great! You only do, what you want to do and you only create, what you want to create. Wether what you do is "right" or "wrong" doesn't matter, as long as you like it. If someone says you could make a DX version of your quest someday, then feel free to say that it simply isn't needed. Same with criticism. There's nothing wrong with considering the things that someone criticises about the quest or that someone wishes to have in the quest. If it actually turns about to be a good idea in your eyes, then great! Be happy and thankful that the criticism was provided and apply the idea to your quest. If you do not like the idea or if you not care about it, then well, no big deal.

At least, that's how I see it. I'm looking forward to see where this project goes and I wish you good luck!

[strike]

I like to work on quests by myself too. Your players are not the quest designers; you are. You know what the final appearance will look like; they don't. You know the context of the decisions you made; they don't. The consumer does not know what they want, but you do. Criticism can wait till the end when the entire picture can be seen not just a few strokes that have been infinitely critiqued by ignorant critics.

What I'm trying to say is, you know best. Do what you want and we'll realize what we want.

[Air Luigi]

Trust yourself and your instincts ... you are amazing. Every questmaker have his strong and weak points. Nes-style is not for everyone, but that is how life works. You can make art... games are art. That's what matters.

The Hero's Memory doesn't need a DX version... lulz

[Demonlink]

No, I want dragons and flying fish in this quest damn it! In all seriousness, I see what you mean. Trust me Aevin, it's really hard to see who is really giving a constructive feedback instead of a shitty review, it happened to me once. But in any case though, like Strike said, the players aren't the quest developers, you are! I mean, I remember reading a negative comment about your quest, establishing that the only difference in your sequel is that you added scripts and that's it. But, like you said, it's in a very early state, so that doesn't mean that the Expo demo will resemble the final version. The demo serves to notify people of how your work functions, what you plan to add, what you want people to give response to. An example, let's say the first boss in your demo is an Aquamentus, (like other quests too ). And many start to say "Why an Aquamentus man? WHY?????". That is a wrong comment I should say. Instead of saying that, they could just say something like: "Hey Aevin, I suggest that you replace an Aquamentus for this, that and that".

Like I said once to NJF, F*** people and just do what you want

Good luck man!

[Aevin]

Thank you for your thoughts, everyone. I really appreciate it.

Avataro: I know how it sounds, but it really isn't that I don't appreciate constructive criticism. It's just that I so often hear the same things over and over when I'm already aware of them, already fixed them, or already decided NOT to "fix" them. It's more about hearing it at the proper time than anything else, and once the quest is released I'll pay plenty of attention to criticism so I can improve it for updates.

[Avaro]

Alright that's a good plan.

[Legen Dary]

NEVER GIVE UP! TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS! [/Peppy]

 

I've just read this thing, and oh my god you're so wrong! "(...) but having my work so heavily criticized (...) ". Aevin, your quest is one of the best rated ones in the site, and it has the best overworld ever. You can't just be so negative only because there are things that some people didn't like about your quest.

 

It is completely impossible to make a quest for everyone, and it also is impossible to please everyone in the same way. If you're out of inspiration and/or motivation we can't do anything about it, but the reason you're giving seems a little bit "PhilFishy".

 

However, I believe that the best thing for you won't be doing something you don't want to, so good luck with everything and I'll just continue hoping =)

[Evan20000]

Ultimately you're going to have to make a game that you want to play as opposed to making a game to please other people. Not only will you find the building process enjoyable, like minded individuals will also enjoy your final product. The problem with trying to please the entire playerbase is that you're going to get a lot of conflicting feedback. While I'm not saying you should ignore this, I'd advise mainly looking for trends of things people like/dislike and using those as your building blocks if you're thinking of making changes or improvements. Also sadly the silent majority will rear its ugly head. A lot of times it's going to feel like you only hear about the bad given that people tend to stay quiet when they're appeased. I wish you the best of luck on this project; I know it's not going to be easy to live up to the high expectations that Hero's Memory 1 created.

[Aevin]

Wow, this got revived out of nowhere ...

 

LegenDairy: I know that I've been incredibly fortunate in the amount of attention both of my quests received. I'm grateful for that, but in the end I'm just the kind of person who finds it difficult to work in the spotlight. I think the stress of releasing the expo demo and having a sudden influx of thoughts on a project at an early stage in development was more than I was expecting.

 

Evan: Thanks for the advice. That's basically what I've concluded for myself. It's tricky to try to take everyone's considerations in mind when it feels like you're being pulled in several different directions ...

 

Anyway, I've been working on this a lot more regularly lately. I think I've gotten a lot of the negativity out of my system and am making a lot of forward progress. Thanks so much for the encouragement, guys. I expect to post an update within a few days.