121 replies to this topic

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Just thought I'd give my own experiences with the program.

I've been building The Hylian Phoenix, along with helping out with a great deal of other projects in the past few years, all in the builds. And you know what? Yes, I did encounter a few bugs back when I first started, but FACT is that I had more bugproblems with 2.10, and I'm not even kidding! XD

I think everyone that's whining about the few bugs that are left should just shake it off and realize that this is life. You're not paying a damn penny to make and play thousands of quests, and compared to the retail gaming market, that's probably the best deal ever. I know there's still bugs, but I have not encountered ANYTHING fatal in three full years, if not even more. I don't know everything computer, but I do know that some systems doesn't handle everything perfectly, so Freedom, I am positive that it's possible that you, and only a few others can find and encounter ceratain bugs that others can. It might be something you as a user can fix yourself, and it might not... but to me, it almost seems like everyone in this topic is blaming everyone else besides themselves for everything bad in the world, and that really bugs me. (bug-pun intended btw)

That said though, there is obviously still bugs left, cause if there wasn't, there would be a final release out already, so discussing this is rather pointless. It's going to be fixed, most likely, but if the devs have better things to do (IE. Life), then they need to do that first. This is a hobby, not a job. If the ZC-team was situated in a office building, working on it every day, we would probably have a lot more than we do today, but again, obviously that is not the case, and I know it's perfectly possible to live, and enjoy, what we've got right now, and instead look forward for what's to come.

Offering to meet in public is no hollow threat, if you want to talk down your nose at me like you began to do above, with your dick and jane bull****, then give me an address and I'll ride on up and we'll talk.

This seems very much like a threat towards another member, and this is not something we tolerate around here. Especially when it is hinted at meeting "in real life". By using such words as "is no hollow threat", it really does look like you're implying that it's a "real" threat, ergo why I am responding to it. Correct me if I am wrong, of course, and if I am, I am sorry if I offended you, or anyone else. No harm intended.

Now, to get a little more back on track... when 2.5 is finally released, I think I will just keep on doing what I am doing right now, which is building my quests and play others. I am looking forward to the day they start adding new features again though, just because I am curios as to where Zelda Classic will be going in the future. But as I've made quite obvious from this post, I do love ZC as it is right now.

[Freedom]

Just thought I'd give my own experiences with the program.

I've been building The Hylian Phoenix, along with helping out with a great deal of other projects in the past few years, all in the builds. And you know what? Yes, I did encounter a few bugs back when I first started, but FACT is that I had more bugproblems with 2.10, and I'm not even kidding! XD

I think everyone that's whining about the few bugs that are left should just shake it off and realize that this is life. You're not paying a damn penny to make and play thousands of quests, and compared to the retail gaming market, that's probably the best deal ever. I know there's still bugs, but I have not encountered ANYTHING fatal in three full years, if not even more. I don't know everything computer, but I do know that some systems doesn't handle everything perfectly, so Freedom, I am positive that it's possible that you, and only a few others can find and encounter ceratain bugs that others can. It might be something you as a user can fix yourself, and it might not... but to me, it almost seems like everyone in this topic is blaming everyone else besides themselves for everything bad in the world, and that really bugs me. (bug-pun intended btw)

That said though, there is obviously still bugs left, cause if there wasn't, there would be a final release out already, so discussing this is rather pointless. It's going to be fixed, most likely, but if the devs have better things to do (IE. Life), then they need to do that first. This is a hobby, not a job. If the ZC-team was situated in a office building, working on it every day, we would probably have a lot more than we do today, but again, obviously that is not the case, and I know it's perfectly possible to live, and enjoy, what we've got right now, and instead look forward for what's to come.
This seems very much like a threat towards another member, and this is not something we tolerate around here. Especially when it is hinted at meeting "in real life". By using such words as "is no hollow threat", it really does look like you're implying that it's a "real" threat, ergo why I am responding to it. Correct me if I am wrong, of course, and if I am, I am sorry if I offended you, or anyone else. No harm intended.

Now, to get a little more back on track... when 2.5 is finally released, I think I will just keep on doing what I am doing right now, which is building my quests and play others. I am looking forward to the day they start adding new features again though, just because I am curios as to where Zelda Classic will be going in the future. But as I've made quite obvious from this post, I do love ZC as it is right now.

No it wasn't a threat, it was an offer to discuss this in person, just as it said it was.
I'm tired of people that want to insult others under their breath in the manner in which he did me by implying I'm stupid and can't read the written word, while hiding behind a computer screen.
I'm willing to discuss anything at any time with any one until they start those games, then I would prefer to meet in person, because in person those games will not be played.

In addition I was just telling Elise that this conversation was now really going well and progress was being made, and that meant someone was going to have to step in and cause a fight about it.
It's the way it always seems to work.
and then you pop up.

[Omega]

2.5 has allot of cool features. In my opinion it has enough features to make an official release. Once all the current bugs are fixed, it should be released. The more new features are added, the more you will have to test for bugs. At this rate, it wont ever get done. Iron out the bugs, release a new version, then go back to adding new features towards a new version via builds. Like your parents always told you as a child, *No more food until you finish whats on your plate* same concept. I am making a quest, the only downside is that no version has been released, so even if I complete it, I can't submit it here. Get on the ball.

[elise]

@ Migo I did test a few big quests for quest developpers in " versions" and always find bugs that are version related
and the developpers always have lots of trouble and many hours spilled to get around it , and some are still in and they can only hope that people don't walk into it ...so yeah they have a reason to " WHINE' cause their many free hours spend in making a quest ends up in an unstable not bug free quest , that already isn't accepted as a quest to start with here on purezc cause it isn't in an official version .
Not only ZC developers do it in their free time also you guys the quest developers
ZC is a community one can't do with the other , a developer is building for nothing as there are no people to use the program...and yes there are only a few people that are brave enough to raise there voice and it's not only Freedom ..........

[Plissken]

One thing I want to make clear myself. I am also disappointed with the situation 2.5 is in. I don't like how it's taken so long to develop and personally I think it should just be released right now, regardless of official bugs, with the source code included. Make it open source and then start that rewrite I keep hearing about. But hey that's just me.

I'm not defending the situation ZC is in particularly. I mainly just want people to help instead of hurt (and I don't just mean by reporting bugs.)

EDIT: Me and those damn typos...

Edited by Plissken, 26 April 2010 - 03:47 PM.

[Christian]

One thing I want to make clear myself. I am I also disappointed with the situation 2.5 is in. I don't like how it's taken so long to develop and personally I think it should just be released right now, regardless of official bugs, with the source code included.

This 100%.

I don't understand why ZC HAS to be closed sourced. A program made in 1999 is not that much a big deal now. They should have it open source so other people can help out in the program.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

No it wasn't a threat, it was an offer to discuss this in person, just as it said it was.
I'm tired of people that want to insult others under their breath in the manner in which he did me by implying I'm stupid and can't read the written word, while hiding behind a computer screen.
I'm willing to discuss anything at any time with any one until they start those games, then I would prefer to meet in person, because in person those games will not be played.

In addition I was just telling Elise that this conversation was now really going well and progress was being made, and that meant someone was going to have to step in and cause a fight about it.
It's the way it always seems to work.
and then you pop up.

Just wanted to let you know that I don't really appreciate the tone you're giving me. In no way did I try to pick a fight, and some of my points in my post is even some of your very own, so I am in no way one-sided on this. Now, about the threat thing, what I said wasn't a warning. I just wanted to make it clear that what I thought you were trying to say is not something we want to happen around here. You have corrected me, as I asked you too, so we have no problem. Right?

Migo I did test a few big quests for quest developpers in " versions" and always find bugs that are version related
and the developpers always have lots of trouble and many hours spilled to get around it , and some are still in and they can only hope that people don't walk into it ...so yeah they have a reason to " WHINE' cause their many free hours spend in making a quest ends up in an unstable not bug free quest , that already isn't accepted as a quest to start with here on purezc cause it isn't in an official version .
Not only ZC developers do it in their free time also you guys the quest developers
ZC is a community one can't do with the other , a developer is building for nothing as there are no people to use the program...and yes there are only a few people that are brave enough to raise there voice and it's not only Freedom ..

Elise, when it comes to spending hours making a game, and having to figure out ways to solve bugs... you do realize that this is what game making is all about? I know, Zelda Classic isn't perfect, but as I explained in my post, it doesn't need to be, cause it's a non-profit project, and if the developers doesn't feel like working on it for every living second of their life, they can chose not to. I'm not saying I like bugs, be it big bugs, or just version-specific ones, but fact is that they're there right now, and until they are fixed, they're going to keep being there. Yet, there's been a LOT of rather successful quests released, that has been made by using the beta builds. Lost Isle and Origin is possibly the best examples. If a bug is stopping your progress, find a way to work around it. No one has said that it's the best way, but at the moment, it is very much the only way. If this isn't something some questmakers want to do, then they can find a different program to make their games with, or maybe even try and design their own. I'd like to see that happen though, if they're not already into the idea of playing with bugs.

Previous posts in this topic has made me scared of how people are reacting to each other here, which is why I want to make this oh so very clear: I did not, and still aren't trying to offend anyone by stating what is purely my own opinions. Freedom, in my own personal opinion, you are acting way more offensive (and defensive) that you probably should be, which was proven by the way you reacted to my post by your last line. And no, this doesn't go for you only, so everyone else, I think we all should just take a deep breathe and come to peace with the fact that Zelda Classic is not, and will never be 100% perfect. Someone will always have something to complain about, be it the lack of Roc's Feather (I remember complaining about this before it was added), or the fact that Zelda Classic lacks support for multiplayer FSA-styled gameplay. Bugs will come and go, and some will probably also stay for a while, and I think everyone that has contributed by submitting bugs for report have been doing a wonderful job at that... but as I mentioned earlier, the developers are people too. If you really want your bug-finds to be fixed instantly, learn how to code and join the team and do it yourself.

Edit: Also, Elise, this has absoloutley nothing to do with being brave and raising once voice. That only leads to topics like this, something which has been proven with basically every topic in which "someone has been brave enough". I don't find it to be brave to rant about how someone doesn't do exactly what one would want them to

[Nathaniel]

As for people finding bugs: I think some people will just naturally find them more than others. It really depends on what aspects of the program you are testing. Some are better at finding bugs than others, and some just find them more based on what they are implementing in their projects. So I guess it is no surprise that some people are experiencing very few bugs while others are experiencing much more. I would like to think that Freedom is most likely very good at finding the bugs, because he has been in the loop on 2.5 testing for a very long time, and has been using ZC for almost its entire existence. If just one person finds bugs, that is at least worthy enough for attention, and if they can be reproduced, then great. If it can't be reproduced, then I don't know.

And Migokalle: I won't respond to the majority of your long and very wordy posts, mainly because I don't have time to read it all, but I will say that I get the impression that you misunderstand Freedom's tone throughout this topic. I think you are just taking his forward and brutally honest nature and treating a lot of it as some sort of personal attack on you. Then again, I am bound to miss things when I don't have the time to read every single word that is being posted in this thread. I hate using "tldr", but even I have my limitations.

[Freedom]

Previous posts in this topic has made me scared of how people are reacting to each other here, which is why I want to make this oh so very clear: I did not, and still aren't trying to offend anyone by stating what is purely my own opinions. Freedom, in my own personal opinion, you are acting way more offensive (and defensive) that you probably should be,

You insulted a whole group of people when you called them whiners because they want a stable engine, the fact that you added a smiley face to it doesn't change the fact that "under your breath" you directly insulted them, and because I point that out you don't appreciate my tone towards you.
I didn't appreciate your comment, you're a moderator here, you're supposed to be above that.

Let me make this real clear for you Migo, or anyone else who would like to disagree with me.

What I want is a stable release.
How I believe that needs to come about is simple.
The developers have to take the lead role and set the direction to it's fruitful completion.
Until they do there will be no direction.
ONCE they do, then the users, be they players, builders, or whomever, then need to step up and help work towards ridding the engine of those bugs, and stop asking for more more more.
They need to test, report bugs, and test again, it's a very simple concept.

What has happened in the past is promises were made and not kept, now many feel used and don't trust the developers.
The developers bought that on their own, BUT they can still step up to the plate and do the right thing.
The ball is in their court.

Edited by Freedom, 26 April 2010 - 04:22 PM.

[Omega]

^Agreed. The more you add the longer its going to take for people like me to get a new version. I want to release my quest here soon, but I can't upload 2.5 quests. It is a hassle. It makes me feel pretty down about even making a quest in 2.5, because I never know when I'll be able to release it here. I can't stand 2.10 it doesn't have the features I need, (like 2.5 currently has). Only problem is 2.5 obviously has to much bugs to be released? Or they keep adding stuff which halts the release? I just want a stable version, it currently has enough features. I can also thank people like Joe123, for making enough scripts to satisfy my other needs. Now I only need a stable version and the ability to upload my quest here. That's all really.

Edited by Mr.Fresh, 26 April 2010 - 04:36 PM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

You insulted a whole group of people when you called them whiners because they want a stable engine, the fact that you added a smiley face to it doesn't change the fact that "under your breath" you directly insulted them, and because I point that out you don't appreciate my tone towards you.
I didn't appreciate your comment, you're a moderator here, you're supposed to be above that.

Let me make this real clear for you Migo, or anyone else who would like to disagree with me.

What I want is a stable release.
How I believe that needs to come about is simple.
The developers have to take the lead role and set the direction to it's fruitful completion.
Until they do there will be no direction.
ONCE they do, then the users, be they players, builders, or whomever, then need to step up and help work towards ridding the engine of those bugs, and stop asking for more more more.
They need to test, report bugs, and test again, it's a very simple concept.

What has happened in the past is promises were made and not kept, now many feel used and don't trust the developers.
The developers bought that on their own, BUT they can still step up to the plate and do the right thing.
The ball is in their court.

See, here's the thing: I'm not trying to be on the offense here, yet I get the feeling that you think I'm trying to hurt you. I just want you to know that this is not the case.

Where I come from, being "whiney" means that you complain a lot, and sometimes a little too much. It's not really negative though. I too whine way too much about pretty much anything that bothers me, and most people do too. I did not mean to offend you or anyone else by using the word though.

As I tried to get through in the post, I'm with you, and what you've been doing to support a stable release. I dig the fact that you seem to have taken it on as a personal mission to get it done, and I think more people, including myself should follow on with your example and just get the word out there that we do want a stable release, however, dissing the developers for not having done that yet is what I feel is wrong with this. I wouldn't think I would need to say this again, but the developers DO have lives. They have other, more important things to do than to sit on their computer writing some code so that a bunch of people who doesn't even pay them can get what they want.

I'm all for getting it done and all, but it's not too important for me when this happens. I understand, and accept that people have things to do, and sometimes, people also lose inspiration to work on something. I can not count how many hours I have spent doing nothing, when I could have just kept working on my quest... but sometimes doing nothing is exactly what you need to be able to go on a different day, you get me?

So no, I did not try to offend anyone at all, and I agree with some of your points, but I also agree with some points from other people too. We all obviously want a stable release, so if you think about it, we're all on the same side here... we just have different ideas on what the developers should be doing with their time. If I was a dev, and I got an important, time-taking job, for example, I would pay more attention to that job, than Zelda Classic. That's just how it is.

@Nathaniel, I think you read what you read wrong then. I'm not under the impression that Freedom is trying to attack me personally, or anyone at all, really. I just didn't like that one little comment he made about how I joined this discussion. I said why I didn't like it, and forgot about it. XD

And Freedom, yes, a smiley at the end does help. Always. (jokebtw)

[Omega]

See, here's the thing: I'm not trying to be on the offense here, yet I get the feeling that you think I'm trying to hurt you. I just want you to know that this is not the case.

Where I come from, being "whiney" means that you complain a lot, and sometimes a little too much. It's not really negative though. I too whine way too much about pretty much anything that bothers me, and most people do too. I did not mean to offend you or anyone else by using the word though.

As I tried to get through in the post, I'm with you, and what you've been doing to support a stable release. I dig the fact that you seem to have taken it on as a personal mission to get it done, and I think more people, including myself should follow on with your example and just get the word out there that we do want a stable release, however, dissing the developers for not having done that yet is what I feel is wrong with this. I wouldn't think I would need to say this again, but the developers DO have lives. They have other, more important things to do than to sit on their computer writing some code so that a bunch of people who doesn't even pay them can get what they want.

I'm all for getting it done and all, but it's not too important for me when this happens. I understand, and accept that people have things to do, and sometimes, people also lose inspiration to work on something. I can not count how many hours I have spent doing nothing, when I could have just kept working on my quest... but sometimes doing nothing is exactly what you need to be able to go on a different day, you get me?

So no, I did not try to offend anyone at all, and I agree with some of your points, but I also agree with some points from other people too. We all obviously want a stable release, so if you think about it, we're all on the same side here... we just have different ideas on what the developers should be doing with their time. If I was a dev, and I got an important, time-taking job, for example, I would pay more attention to that job, than Zelda Classic. That's just how it is.

@Nathaniel, I think you read what you read wrong then. I'm not under the impression that Freedom is trying to attack me personally, or anyone at all, really. I just didn't like that one little comment he made about how I joined this discussion. I said why I didn't like it, and forgot about it. XD

And Freedom, yes, a smiley at the end does help. Always. (jokebtw)

They have enough time to add new features. Your case is not very strong here.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

They have enough time to add new features. Your case is not very strong here.

Wait, what? That is not what I am saying at all. XD I don't want them to add new features now. Did I even mention that in my post? o.o I'm confused.

[Lemon]

Keep up the work Developers.

While the program has crashed (3...?) times for me thus far over the last month or two of using it for what must border on four hours a day; and the timed save thing usually recovers everything.

The drama around this seems pretty silly. Use 2.1 or whatever if you don't want bugs. The new features aren't required to make a good quest, they just make a lot of things easier.

If you can't resist the updates, then you should be content that there are updates constantly of the beta's... you act neglected, yet there are quite obviously people working on this.

I could care less if it takes another five years, Zc is already an amazing program and the fact that it exists makes me happy enough.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Keep up the work Developers.

While the program has crashed (3...?) times for me thus far over the last month or two of using it for what must border on four hours a day; and the timed save thing usually recovers everything.

The drama around this seems pretty silly. Use 2.1 or whatever if you don't want bugs. The new features aren't required to make a good quest, they just make a lot of things easier.

If you can't resist the updates, then you should be content that there are updates constantly of the beta's... you act neglected, yet there are quite obviously people working on this.

I could care less if it takes another five years, Zc is already an amazing program and the fact that it exists makes me happy enough.

Word. You said exactly what I wanted to. It's like you looked into my mind, took the idea so that I couldn't quite get it down on paper just right, then you did it yourself. You're a thief. I should have you hanged.

But yeah, exactly. I think we should be happy about what we got now, cause obviously it's working pretty well for what it is. When a stable version is released, we can be happy about that then, instead of getting down about it now. Right?