48 replies to this topic

[DarkFlameWolf]

I'm just excited about one major thing: They brought my boi, Gleeok back. FINALLY! IN 3D!!! Let's go!!!!!

 

EDIT: hahaha, page topper! It was meant to be!

Edited by DarkFlameWolf, 30 April 2023 - 07:19 AM.

[peteandwally]

Not gonna accuse Nintendo of anything, but I definitely had the idea for the 'Depths' before them. Just sayin'

 

[Shoshon the Elegant]

Not gonna accuse Nintendo of anything, but I definitely had the idea for the 'Depths' before them. Just sayin'
 

I had the idea too. In fact they straight up stole my idea of making a quest that goes from sky to surface to underground.

[The Satellite]

Cannot believe Nintendo stole my idea of making a Zelda game.

[The Satellite]

Anyhow, I beat the main quests Saturday and have been doing cleanup since. My succinct spoiler-free thoughts are that I don't think the early game is as strong compared to Breath of the Wild, but almost everything after is a marked improvement. Once I got used to the new mechanics, it was smooth sailing, though I did and still do miss a couple from BotW. Since the game is still fresh, I'm gonna drop some thoughts on gameplay and plot but in separate boxes.

 

Gameplay spoilers

To get what I miss out of the way immediately: I MISS MY INFINITE BOMBS. And Revali's Gale like a lot. I even miss Cryonis a bit because it's a much faster way to cross certain bodies of liquid than janking contraptions together (which is a mechanic I enjoy, don't get me wrong). Weird that the Sheikah Slate is just gone entirely and replaced with the less-useful-by-comparison Purah Pad. And really I still would prefer just having different elemental arrow types because it can be obnoxious using the fuse system, and that's even after you sort by "most used" items to keep all your best arrow fusion items up at the top of the list together. I can understand the bombs thing, it was kind of broken in terms of mining ores and such, but it was also safer than trying to aim a bomb flower correctly. Assuming you prefer to throw them instead of wasting the arrow.

 

However, I do not miss Magnesis or Stasis, because Ultrahand and Recall are incredible updates. Ultrahand in particular took getting used to, but once I did, this really does shake up the gameplay and have me approach things from new ways. Ascend had to grow on me because it felt very situational at first, but soon I figured out its use and yeah, this is an all around great skillset. I still want Revali's Gale back, but, it has a pseudo-replacement that has really great utility in a different sense.

 

I also love the new shrine interiors, they scratch some weird aesthetical itch that I can't place but it's comfortingly familiar to me. I find a lot of them to be more fun than the ones in BotW, and the Rauru's Blessing shrines never get old simply because of how incredible their unique background is. I also kind of appreciate that the only combat shrines are teaching you mechanics, but simultaneously they're all mechanics I know from BotW and I can't skip the text. So. Mixed bag. And they'll suck again on repeat playthroughs. Alas.

 

The main annoyance I had was that the game expected you to do some small amount of plotting before you get access to basic things like towers, the paraglider, the Lookout Landing mini-stable, and Great Fairies. No such restrictions existed at all in BotW to my knowledge. I at least did enough to access the towers and paraglider early on but didn't know about the rest until I finally cleared the Rito dungeon. Kind of an annoying realization, and it's what I mean by not liking the early game compared to BotW. The tutorial islands as well, they looked pretty but didn't feel as cohesive and strong as the Plateau... and locking off fast travel for so long was also kind of annoying.

 

Anyway Fusion is funny.

 

Plot spoilers

So anyway, this and BotW retroactively are a complete reboot, right? Or bare minimum, a retelling, based on the classic interpretation of "the series is a legend retold many ways"? I mean, you could make an argument that the backstory takes place sometime between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, and that the Ganondorf that comes along in Ocarina of Time is a different one, but the game already takes enough cues from OoT and SS that it feels like a reimagining. Especially with this being a Rauru that definitely isn't the one we knew and yet takes some cues from the existing one, i.e. being the Sage of Light and being involved with the Temple of Time's creation. Also, the other Sages are wearing masks resembling the Divine Beasts, who were said to be named for ancient Sages, with Urbosa name-dropping Nabooru... are these the Sages the Divine Beasts were named after, i.e. the same names of the Sages from Ocarina of Time (plus Medli)?

 

In a weird way it feels great being able to speculate again, since the official timeline release kind of killed that off. On the other hand I could be overthinking it. But also I'm convinced this takes place in the divergent timeline created by Skyward Sword when The Imprisoned was killed in the present and thus there was no Curse, and Ganondorf was not a reincarnation of Demise but an evil man who enhanced his evil with the Secret Stone.

 

This is only partially a joke, but I've been saying for years that Skyward Sword was the perfect opportunity for another timeline split instead of that dumbass bullshit they did by giving OoT a third "Link dies" split.

 

But yeah, much I do think the plot in this game as well as presentation was much better than in BotW, which isn't a story I even dislike. I am also glad they nailed Ganondorf's English voice the first time, I think I would have liked it a bit deeper but Matt Mercer's performance was so on point that I don't mind as much. The whole thing with the stones and draconification was also done really well, I didn't even realize there was a light dragon until the end of the geoglyph sidequest though. I have a lot of deeper thoughts but I would be typing too much, so I will just say that the finale of this game is maybe the best in all of Zelda.

[Avaro]

this game is... beautiful

[Matthew]

There's a lot of things I like about TOTK, but this post isn't about as much of that; it's more of a tangent about how I'm not very satisfied with the game on a thematic and narrative level (particularly regarding Zelda herself). This is particularly true when comparing it to BOTW, which I felt was incredibly thematically cohesive and coherent. Obviously, all sorts of spoilers for the game ahead.

 

Spoiler

At its core, BOTW is a game about transience, freedom, and letting go. Almost everything -- from the gameplay systems, to the narrative, to the world design, reflected those themes. I feel like TOTK tries to tie BOTW's devotion to freedom to a more vibrant and lively Hyrule, but falls flat in some areas.

 

The game brings in new themes, particularly of restoration, unity, and the inheritance of generational responsibility. We see this in the Sages' awakening, the reconstruction of Hyrule (especially Lookout Landing), raid side quests, and follower companions, and even the fuse mechanic! These themes are really cool on their own, but my biggest issue is this: the main narrative does not do a good job of tying the game's thematic threads together in a satisfying way. I believe this is because the memory system of storytelling does not work for the narrative that TOTK is trying to tell.

 

Like it or not, BOTW's memory-styled story system worked wonderfully for the type of game Nintendo was making. Link was an amnesiac and his memories were fragmented, (much like Hyrule!). Likewise, the story was provided in small pieces. Flashbacks were placed in meaningful locations, and they served to deepen our understanding of the characters and world. The writing certainly wasn't perfect, but I think BOTW's story felt far more intimate during the character moments we experienced through the flashbacks.

 

Compare this to TOTK's memory-styled system, and the context it exists within. The Dragon's Tears again provide the player with TOTK's main narrative in small pieces, but this time, I feel the narrative does not work nearly as well when told in a non-linear fashion (Because Zelda's ultimate fate is initially made out to be much more of a mystery to the player in this game, learning of past events out-of-order can put awkward dents in the flow of storytelling, at least in my opinion). The seemingly arbitrary geoglyph placements also make it easy for players to stumble upon later memories early.

 

The memories themselves were far more exposition-heavy than BOTW's, which left less time for not just Zelda, but also Sonia, and Rauru, to really shine as characters in TOTK.

 

The later memories revealing Zelda's draconification were tragic, I believed, and provided deeper motivation for destroying the Evil Guy to not just Link, but the entire Kingdom. So many characters in this game love Zelda and rally around her; she is a force of hope for the newly-rebuilding kingdom, so it's kind of bizarre to see them talk about Zelda and her fate as if it's a total mystery, because it shouldn't be (provided you have played long enough). Link's geoglyph findings are hardly shared with anyone, save for Purah and Impa, who react to Zelda's fate with resigned nonchalance. There's always been a level of dramatic irony present in Zelda games, but TOTK's narrative goes a bit overboard in that regard. 

 

I believe writing the present-day characters to more deeply acknowledge the past and Zelda's fate wouldn't just have been nice - but would have been crucial to really making this game's story work. Not to be hyperbolic, but the kingdom would then be able to rally around a literal legend of Zelda to avenge their ancestors, save their kingdom, and defeat the incarnation of evil. Ultimately, more interplay between the past and present would have at least strengthened the game's emotional core.

 

As it stands, the gameplay and narrative threads tie together in a few places (the sage mob fight was cute, if not a bit cheesey) (getting the master sword was an incredibly touching moment), and its wonderful when these threads do cross, but it doesn't feel like enough. I could go on more and more, but I think I've managed to convey how I feel. There's just something jarring about how the Dragon's Tears connect with the rest of the game. 

 

I hope that doesn't sound pretentious, but I guess this matters to me because the messy-feeling narrative and theming made it much harder for me to truly immerse myself in this iteration of Hyrule. Luckily, the wonderfully dense world kept my attention regardless. Nintendo is definitely on an interesting path with their new approach, but I hope they don't hesitate to shake the formula again, particularly regarding the story.

[Anthus]

I have a lot of opinions and thoughts about this game. I'll probably type up a real post about it at some point, but to make a long story short, I do really like the game. It's good, and fixes a lot of issues I had with BotW. It's also still... the sequel to the legend of zelda: breath of the wild so ughhhh I still have my issues with it lmao

[Shane]

i beat the game! its really good. i have some gripes but so much praise. i've tried writing up a post but having come off beating the game a few hours ago i feel my thoughts are still too messy to put into words. the six year wait was worth it and the fear of map reuse was gone pretty early on in my playthrough. this iteration of botw hyrule has so much heart and love poured into it. there are a few things i miss from botw but honestly botw's gotta have something to its name still lmao

 

do agree with matts thoughts. spot on.

 

also there is something i accidentally learnt when going back on social media...

 

early game spoilers

i learnt what you get for doing all the shrines and good lord i hate it. that is so so cursed and i dont like the implications at all

[The Satellite]

You know, as much as some plot details don't add up with the rest of the series, even considering their tendency for prioritizing gameplay over story, I do find myself reigniting an old passion I haven't felt since... well, before Hyrule Historia. In my mind I know it ultimately doesn't matter and isn't worth worrying about, but in my heart, I've been enjoying trying to reason and reckon and reconcile these games with the rest of the franchise. HH destroyed timeline discussion by finalizing one, which was frankly a huge mistake on their part, but now I feel something similar again to that. It's nostalgic.

 

Now let's ignite a flame war and divide the forum against each other.

[BFeely]

I'm just excited about one major thing: They brought my boi, Gleeok back. FINALLY! IN 3D!!! Let's go!!!!!

 

EDIT: hahaha, page topper! It was meant to be!

 

Fire Gleeoks even.  And ice, lightning, and "King" with all three elements.

We also have Like Likes, with elemental and rock variants, thankfully they are now permanently attached to the terrain and cannot chase you.

And finally the Gibdo has been re-imaginied as a moth-like monster, with a pwerful queen.

[Twilight Knight]

thankfully they are now permanently attached to the terrain and cannot chase you.

My thoughts exactly, haha

[Matthew]

I wanted to share some thoughts regarding the post-TOTK timeline.

 

My read is that the past of TOTK takes place shortly after Skyward Sword. After Ganondorf is sealed during the Imprisoning War, his seeping malice causes the events of many games in the series. The other Ganondorf incarnations share the soul of the OG from TOTK, but not his body. Eventually, BOTW/TOTK happen far into the future.

 

I find this explanation compelling and believe that it slots in very nicely with the overall continuity. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

[The Satellite]

That's honestly the Occam's Razor of the situation, isn't it? I mean, it was a thought I'd had early on as well, but too many overlapping elements with OoT/SS made me question it. All this before I remembered that they never actually gave that much of a shit about the timeline and neither should I. *pulls curtain over the corkboard with all the images connected by strings and pins*

[peteandwally]

Old school zelda player point of view:

 

Exploring had a bit of continuity to it. New items led to new areas in most games. Items as keys, so to speak. There is almost no continuity to items in the game. Since you get 'powers' almost immediately, the other things you get are entirely extra and don't help much in terms of game progress. Essentially, the familiars are items, but we're missing cool stuff like hookshot, roc's feather, etc. 

 

When I got the game, I immediately jumped into the nearest gloom pit and started exploring the depths. Yes, this totally ignored the story and is completely cumbersome and unintended, but I viewed it as a swordless run type of thing. Finding majora's mask was kind of cool, but almost everything else down there was off-color trash outfits with tedious upgrade requirements. If I wanted to play final fantasy, I would. Zelda should be about getting rewarded for exploration and not grinding item quality. How hard would it have been to reward you with gear that made autobuild cheaper, or allowed the up gust like in botw, or give you a roc's feather cap that instills low-gravity. I mean, having 12 copies of a hat just doesn't cut it. Putting in 400 bubble frogs and 7000 koroks, and needing to gather material to build cool stuff just doesn't do it for me. 

 

The items that are in place are scattered in strange ways, across the world in no particular pattern. It is near impossible to complete an armor set on first playthrough, and planning dungeons is almost non-existent. It's also difficult to find monsters to even gather upgrade materials in any reasonable way. There's no smoothness. It's like you're playing a randomizer quest.

 

And why not even more enemies? The jumpy guys that explode int keese when you hit them with weak weapons, or doddongos (I mean, they gave lynels armor that you have to bomb off, but you can't put in a doddongo with the same feature?), manhandelas would've been sooo sick, or those snake things that rush at you? Imagine exploring the depths and having snakes flying at you out of the darkness... I want darknuts and pols voices. It could've been so dank.

 

Fun game if you don't go for completeness on any degree. Maybe I'm just old, because my kids love the game. They do all the side quests and stuff. We often build Link a little house and have fun putting rockets on it and flying around the world. I love the building mechanic, especially the minigame of supporting the signs. They did a great job of teaching static mechanics to kids in a unique way. We all sat together as I beat each temple and then we all fought ganon together. That was fantastic. Ultimately, I think I'll start fresh on some future holiday and have a great time on a minimal playthrough again, but there's no way I'd ever even begin to do all the things to 100%. They just seem arbitrary.

 

~PnW