10 replies to this topic

[Radien]

Okay... I've been pouring over this problem for literally weeks now, on and off, and I have yet to come to a definitive solution. It has been seriously irritating me, because I thought I'd solved the problem awhile ago, but then it started to have timing issues which totally screw it up.

First, the general question: how many of you out there have ever actually animated your sprites to do non-looping actions? Looped ones are easy. Even combo cycles are doable, but for sprites they require lots of overlay and the use of level-specific palettes, since you can't use transparencies (being restricted to no layers).

Now, my problem: You may have heard me mention that I've created some animations of a fairy coming out of the Serenia's "pouch," hovering in a loop of undefined length, and then zipping back where it came from.

This can't really be done with level palette CSets, so therefore it needs transparencies, therefore layering, therefore no combo cycling on those layers. My first solution: Place Link adjacent to the top edge of the screen on unwalkable combos. Have the combos beneath him combo-cycle into a conveyor which sends him through the north side warp. The combo cycle is timed the same as the fairy animation. It did work reliably in my first test.

However, lag - or something else, unknown - kicked in. The combo cycling combo's animation speed IS correct, but unlike my first tests (which were on blank black screens), it no longer starts the fairy animation immediately (or at any predictable interval, for that matter).

This is getting to be irritating... I want my fairy animation. If any of you are willing to help me, I'll give you many, many cookies. In fact, if anyone's willing to have a look at it and help me work with it until it's fixed, I'll even send you a ZQuest-openable copy of the most current Dance of Remembrance quest file...

Edited by Radien, 29 September 2004 - 04:38 AM.

[lord_jamitossi]

Well, you're gonna have to get yourself a monkey, a mars bar and a toy helicopter. Make sure it's a mars bar, if not the results could be fatal...

Ok, now to be serious.

I honestly have no idea of what to do in this situation, but I'm having the same problem. It comes down to making a non-looping animation on a layer, right? I don't know of any ways to work around the no combo-cycling thing, so that'll probably have to wait for the next release.

More importantly, is this animation during a cut-scene? I don't really understand what you mean by animating your sprite, but I beleave that if you did a timed warp, you could make a really long looped animation look like it isn't. I'm pretty sure that both the animations and the timed warps relate to ticks, so if it were to lag, I think it would affect both. I havn't tried this, but it's worth a try.

[Shoelace]

That sucks that you can't do combo cylcing on layers. I was thinking of a way, I have an idea however I have not tested it yet. First you have one of your animation with one of your csets that needed on one layer. Second, you have another one of your animations with a different cset that starts after the first one. And it will make it look like it did a combo cycle, but it actually did it.

I don't know if that will help because at least I didn't understand the direct question. Well good luck on that though.

[link3505]

you cannot have one time animations, they will always loop, unless you do a combo. and remember, all tiles animate GLOBALLY, so if you have an animation of five frames, you have a one in five chance of the animation starting at the first frame, so that may be causing this:

The combo cycling combo's animation speed IS correct, but unlike my first tests (which were on blank black screens), it no longer starts the fairy animation immediately (or at any predictable interval, for that matter).

Edited by link3505, 03 October 2004 - 07:33 PM.

[Radien]

Lord Jamitossi:

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, it looks like this may be my only option. :\ I say "unfortunately" because it does in fact work, but it takes a large amount of time and map space in order to set it up. If another method is discovered, I'd definitely like to try it.

The one upside is that it works pretty much perfectly once it's all set up... But I have to be careful not to do it in too many scenes for fear of eventually using up too many maps. Although maybe I'm worrying too much.

Oh, and yes, this is technically part of a cut scene, though by "cut scene" I mean a simple dialog scene.

Shoelace:

Um... ...I'm not sure how exactly that does anything to the animations...

link3505:

It seems you didn't understand all of my post. Yes, there is no standard feature in ZQuest for creating non-looping animations. But just as custom bosses are made using ways to get around limitations, I'm finding ways to get around this limitation, too.

The method I listed above involved a combo cycle with the same animation speed as the layered animation, which WILL match up with it. The combo cycle warps you instantly to the screen with the animation. It did work consistently, until I tried warping to a screen with many layers, which caused enough warp lag to throw the animation timing off.

Edited by Radien, 03 October 2004 - 11:58 PM.

[SwordOfSeals]

I think I have a solution....(BTW, Raiden I'm glad I received your PM today, I actually coicidentally discover this solution Saturday).

You're problem is timing the entrance of the cutscene and the exit so that the player views it once, and the whole thing, right?

Your method is a good solution, but it takes up to much tile space, right? Not map. If so, Use an equation of A.speed with matching up to save on tile space.

If the "Fairy" animation is an even number of tile animation, the combo to convey "Link" can be Animation tiles / 2. The Speed however will be A.Speed * 2 then +1.

If the convey "Link" tile is again divisable by 2, repeat. I've been able to match exactly 96 Animation Tiles with 3. If this isn't helping you, lemme know.

EDIT: The above solution only works with EVEN number tiles. Sorry. I haven't found odd ones yet.

Edited by SwordOfSeals, 04 October 2004 - 07:21 AM.

[Radien]

SwordofSeals:

Wow... ...If that works, then you have so made my day... I'll try it out tomorrow! Thanks a lot!!

[SwordOfSeals]

It works, even on combo cycling! One possible problem. Conveying might delay the animation by 1 frame, and warping, another frame.

If so, I'm not sure how to remedy that. Believe me, combo cycling works.

I was working on a new "warp" visual when I was frustrated at the timing the one time view. So, I experimented and found the equation. Take my example.

My original was 102 tiles ( ) at A.speed 0. So using 102 tiles to match the speed is ridiculous. I found that taking the Pit combo down to 51 and changing the speed to 1 worked! But I couldn't divide by 2 again. So I reduced it to 100 original, and then reduced Pit combo to 25. But, A.speed 2 didn't work. 3 did. 25 tiles is still too much.

I again reduced the original to 96 (lost 8 frames, darn it!). 96/2 = 48. 48/2 = 24. 24/2 = 12. 12/2 = 6. 6/2 = 3!!!!!
I dropped Pit combo down to 3! But the Speed? Using the equation, it turned out to be 51! How's that for economizing?

Edited by SwordOfSeals, 04 October 2004 - 06:39 PM.

[Radien]

Well, it sounds like you know your stuff, but even with that logic, it still didn't work when I implemented it.

I just remembered that I do have proof that I've gotten it to work before: download my DoR demo. The updated version, now up for download under the same URL (below), has such an animation right off.

It's the very first thing you see, by the way (right after the title screen), so just download it and start the game.

SoS, it really does sound like you've got this down, so could I ask you a favor?... Would you perhaps be willing to open my QST file and check out how I'm doing it to see if it should be working? Sorry to ask, but you're the only one I know of.

[SwordOfSeals]

Sure! I'd be glad to.

*Later on*

Hmmm. Yes. It works just fine (black background add an easy touch). Works well. Okay let's see how you did that and how're you doing the other....

*BZZZZ!*

What the...!? Uh, Raiden, I need the password. Go ahead and PM me it, or email it to me (or set up an appointment to AIM me). You've got something going on. Maybe we both can get this solved?

[Radien]

Oh! Well, I'd intended to send you a copy of what I'm doing now, as opposed to that old demo... but looking at the demo isn't a bad idea at all, because it's the same technique, just implemented in only five or so screens.

I'll get you the password, and then we can work out a way for me to get you the new work-in-progress.

Actually, it'd be better just for me to send you un-passworded copies of both QST files... are you on IM? ICQ or AIM would do.

P.S. - Just so you know, I could have done what I did in the demo entirely with combo cycling animations, but the sprites are indeed on layers, if only for practice.

Edited by Radien, 08 October 2004 - 09:03 PM.