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TS Chronicles the Legend of Zelda Series


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#136 Avaro

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:13 PM

(Edit: Don't forget, this here is all spoilers for ALBW, so if you don't want to be spoilered you shouldn't read)

 

@Hylian Glaceon, I accept your opinion but I just want to say something about the magic meter and why it made sense for me. It's simple: All of Ravio's items use the meter. Period. It's as simple as that, as the wall merge ability is basically a Ravio item as well. No items use the meter, other than Ravio's.

 

How comes that I never really used the hookshot or the hammer for combat, other than the enemies that require these items to defeat them? I always use the wind and the fire rod. I think I'll try using the hookshot and hammer more, when doing the 50 floor challenge. I think it will be much harder in hero mode, than normal mode, even with all heart containers and golden sword.

 

Also, I'd love to see such chronicle reviews for the Mario series! :O

Overall, I liked the idea of this thread very much.


Edited by Avataro, 29 November 2013 - 05:18 PM.


#137 The Satellite

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 07:03 PM

One thing you forgot to mention was bosses- or at least I think you did, I still see no mention of them anywhere.


Knew I was forgetting something, so I added two paragraphs about them in the section below the dungeons. I suppose the sages thing you mentioned makes sense too, I guess that's one hole filled, but that still leaves a couple of other plot holes.
 

As for non-linearity, in my opinion, in order for it to be different and enjoyable it has to be a different game you're playing through each time. While the Rental Shop is supposed to encourage this, it actually ruins it. It didn't matter what order I did the dungeons in my second run. I had all the same items already from the Rental Shop. So while I did Swamp Palace the first time in the second run, it was nearly identical to my first run because I had all the same stuff. If the nonlinear setup worked where the items were actually in the dungeons, it'd be a totally different game and probably would've had many versions you could play by doing the dungeons in a different order.


You do kind of have a point, if only one item is required in each dungeon, they could have still had it nonlinear and you just find the items in dungeons still. In the end, I'm still not bothered by the shop and I like how it's used, but I could see this other method being used in the future.
 

Also where in-game does it mention that the Sages lead to the Triforce of Courage? I've played through it twice and did not see it anywhere. Feels like it's just there because they couldn't put together a better way for Link to get the Triforce or an actual reason Link needs to save the Sages.


I don't think it did say why, which is the odd part. Scootaloo's explanation can fit well enough, but leaving out why it's the Sages' job to unlock it is still baffling.
 

Also, I'd love to see such chronicle reviews for the Mario series! :O
Overall, I liked the idea of this thread very much.


Thanks! And I thought about doing this for other series, but I'm not sure if it could work as well with Mario. I thought about Halo, but I'm not sure enough people on these boards care about it for me to do a series like that here. Mario would be much more simple probably, at least until we got to games like the RPGs, unless I just stuck to the platformers. Well, I got Ocarina of Time VS in the meantime, which for the record I skipped last week because of A Link Between Worlds. Don't worry, a new one's coming tomorrow. :heh:



#138 kurt91

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:15 AM

If you do decide to do one of these on the Mario games, please don't skip the RPG ones. Those were fantastic, and SMRPG was my first RPG I had ever played. I loved those as a child, and I'd love to discuss opinions on those with you.



#139 Deedee

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:11 PM

I was not talking about you.
I was talking about the majority of haters I see on other places who are like "It sucks because its linear." or "Zelda can't be linear!" and even "The Wii sucks, therfore this does". I've seen SS get the same kind of comments.

As for what I liked about TP; most of the dungeons were pretty good, better than what OoT had. They may be linear, but OoT was pretty linear too. Many of the bosses were pretty lame (especially the Fryus), but who said OoT didn't suffer from that problem, ableit less severe (Queen Ghoma was the biggest offender in OoT, though there were a couple of other not so serious offenders). The overworld was vast and spacious (not to mention better handled than OoT) and I actually liked most of the music in it, particularly the Hidden Village theme.
In short, I'd put this on the same level as OoT - A really good game, but it has too many flaws to become a truly great game. So far, I only consider LttP, OoA and SS to be truly great Zelda games.

Actually, while I'm at it... (Zelda rankings)

 

You forgot Wind Waker :P

Edit: Dangit! Didn't notice the thread was dead :P


Edited by Dimentio, 11 June 2015 - 09:12 PM.


#140 The Satellite

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:14 PM

And here I thought this thread would have stayed silent until after Zelda U was released...

 

fist_shake_by_amandakitswell-d4din1b.gif


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#141 Deedee

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:20 PM

Lel.

On that note, though...

Who here is excited for Zelda U?



#142 The Satellite

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:29 PM

There's a thread for that. :blah:



#143 Cukeman

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 10:40 PM

Re: Ocarina of Time

 

   While I have to agree that the gameplay and story of OoT are essentially what we've had before, and I am definitely one of those people who frequently gripe about how overrated OoT is, I do think it made a few profound changes that greatly impacted the series.

 

   The translation to 3D didn't really impact the overworld much at all. But, holy cow- did they take full advantage of it in the dungeons! They could have just made dungeons like the previous games, only in 3D, but Nintendo wasn't satisfied to do that. The dungeons are full of places where you have to switch into first person and look around above you to figure out what to do. There are lots of places where something you do one one floor affects something on another floor. There are objects you have to bring down a few floors to solve puzzles; there are objects you need to carry from room to room to solve puzzles. There is that really cool twisting hallway to access a whole new room. OoT revolutionized dungeon design in the series, if nothing else. Past Zelda games maybe had one or two semi-realized attempts at vertical dungeon design, such as that one frustrating puzzle in LttP's Ice Palace where you have to walk clear around most of the dungeon again because your path down a hole is blocked, and the afore-mentioned Eagle's Tower pillars, but those are rare examples, and they are more like 2.5D puzzles that kinda-sorta imitate 3D space. They don't compare to the full-on verticality that Nintendo implented into OoT's dungeon design.

   This is something that impresses me immensely, even if the story and gameplay aren't all that new.

 

   The other major impact OoT had on the series was the music. I mean, holy crap- the music in this game transformed the world of Hyrule from a cozy little country to a freakin' epic fantasy world. I'm not saying the square footage of space in OoT is unprecedented, but it FELT like it. Before now, Hyrule was more like a little dream world, and probably didn't exist beyond the cloud borders surrounding the edge of the map. Now it was it's own vast universe, and we knew from the flavor and tone (mostly musically) that no matter how much we got to explore, there was a whole world out there beyond every border.

   I didn't have a Nintendo 64 back in '98, but I got the soundtrack CD ($2 from Nintendo Power) and when I listened to it, I saw this hugely enormous vast landscape. Not only that but the music was just simply beautiful. When I finally played the game years later the environments were admittedly smaller than I'd envisioned, but the music still made the game feel much larger in scope than it physically was (in terms of 3D digital space).

   There were other small details that helped too, NPCs having their own occupations, agendas and schedules, the rising of the sun and moon with environmental sounds that added richness to the environment, wolf howls, rooster calls, flowing water, cracklng firelight, and maybe it wasn't there, but I almost feel like there were crickets chirping at night. Stuff like Link's sword and shield clinking together on his back, and the sound of sand crunching beneath his feet as you wandered the desert, versus hard surfaces, versus the sound of the soft padded carpeting in Ganon's tower.

   Link to the Past had really nice music, and shared several songs with OoT, but OoT's soundtrack is much richer and more majestic. Link to the Past FELT like an epic because of the story and dialogue, and all the extra little things you could do in the game. OoT screamed that it actually WAS an epic (in terms of music and sound design) because of the world we lived and breathed at every moment. Sure the N64 had limitations which become obvious when you look at the game from a distance, but when you're playing Ocarina of Time, listening to the sounds and the music, and interacting with the environment, you just completely forget the N64 even has limitations- at least I do.

 

   A few other thoughts:

   The size of Hyrule Field, based on Link's walking speed, I wouldn't want it to be any larger, it gave me the impression of a large expanse, and that was good enough for me.

   OoT has some very creepy stuff in it- one thing which doesn't get mentioned enough is all the skeletal hands reaching up from the curdling pits of slime/acid/goop in the Bottom of the Well- or was it the Shadow Temple (or both)?

   The first time a young boy leaves the safety of Kokiri Forest and gets shut out of Hyrule Castle by the rising drawbridge at sunset- just when he'd almost made it- only to find himself alone outside at night in the cold, with nowhere to sleep, with skeleton zombies climbing out of the ground- that's a great storytelling moment.

 

EDIT: One last thing in regards to losing the functionality of Young/Adult items in Present/Future. I think that's only an issue because once you open the Door of Time there's not much use for Young Link anymore. Design-wise, if you opened the door much earlier, and the rest of the game was 50% Young Link and 50% Adult Link, then the limited items could have made each version of Link feel different and unique to play as, instead of not really wanting to use Young Link unless you were required to.


Edited by Cukeman, 19 April 2016 - 05:41 AM.

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#144 The Satellite

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 12:08 AM

I actually went back and reread the Chronicle when I saw you'd commented about it so I could be up to speed on it before reading your response, and I found myself thinking of the dungeon point as well before I read your response. "I didn't spend a lot of thought on the dungeons," I thought, "when those definitely did go a little above and beyond what past games had done up until that point." So in that, we definitely agree. To be honest, I'm sure these Chronicles are full of errors or other thoughts I don't really agree with anymore. Part of me wants to try re-Chronicling, in preparation for Zelda U, but the last time I tried replaying through the series last year, well... that just sorta... ended. That, and I don't want to play Zelda II again for a while. :heh:

 

Zelda U Chronicle will definitely be made here. I suppose I should suck it up and get Tri Force Heroes to Chronicle, much as I don't really want to...


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#145 The Satellite

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 11:57 PM

Tri Force Heroes
 
This was a game I was never enthusiastic for. It seemed like little more than a filler title brought to us to fill in the gap of the increasingly-delayed Breath of the Wild. Quite honestly I was hoping they'd ditch the "Legend of Zelda" moniker and market it as a spinoff, otherwise it would be little more than the cheapest canon title since the original Four Swords. I was similarly also hoping its quality would be more akin to the sequel, Four Swords Adventures, instead, but I was regardless unimpressed by another multiplayer Zelda title, nor its rather wacky atmosphere and fashion-obsessed kingdom.

 

To my disappointment, it was announced as a canon main series title. I took only a little solace in the fact that it would be more similar to Four Swords Adventures than Four Swords.

 

I was debating how much I wanted to buy this game for a long while. I was completely uninterested in its stage-based setup, craving an actual adventure instead, and there were times I almost wondered if this would be the first ever Zelda title I would pass on. I thought about how fun it might be to play with friends, and I did know several people who would be picking it up... but I just came back to that thought, that multiplayer Zelda titles just don't appeal to me that much. Yes, there was a single-player mode, but it looked somewhat tedious, which was corroborated by friends and reviewers.

 

I actually managed to play the multiplayer demo before the game was released and ended up on a squad of competent teammates. It was fun, to be perfectly honest. Not great, but an enjoyable little experience. It still didn't sell me on the game though. In fact, I wouldn't pick this game up for almost a year after its release, when it saw a price cut and I had a gift card for GameStop I received on my birthday. That was when I decided to suck it up and pick up what was, to me, my least-anticipated Zelda game of all time.

 

Originally, I intended to play both single- and multiplayer modes, but I've been unable to arrange a multiplayer session as of writing, so I decided to go ahead and write this chronicle. Therefore, this post will be focused on the single-player aspect of this game.

 

Might as well start with the story of this game: The fashion-obsessed kingdom of Hytopia had a very pretty princess, who the jealous Lady Maud cursed to wear an unseemly skintight onesie and be completely unfashionable. Horrifying. King Tuft, unable to free her of this garment, called for the legendary "Tri Force Heroes" to return to Hytopia and save the princess of her terrible fate and defeat the Lady. As you can tell, these are the most dire of circumstances.

 

Who are these Tri Force Heroes? Well, two of them are either nameless Link lookalikes, or two soulless "doppels" the third hero can transfer his soul between to venture on his own. The third? It's Link. Not just any Link, but the same hero from A Link Between Worlds! ... wait, what? No, seriously, what? How did he turn into Toon Link, instead of that Oracles-style Link with orange hair? And if this is supposed to be a couple years later, why does he look no older? Was Link, like, five in A Link Between Worlds?

 

This game doesn't seem to care about continuity at all, which only reinforces my point that it shouldn't have been a canon title. There's other minor things as well, such as an unlockable Linebeck outfit, despite that character being on a different timeline entirely, and more than a few enemies only seen previously in the Dark World or Lorule. It has its own quirkiness, but it's not one fitting for the Zelda universe I feel, especially all the cheesy dialogue with forced meme references. I'll hopefully make this the last time I say this, but it really should have been a spinoff title, or even a brand new IP that could be expanded past just the Zelda theme, but also reference several other Mario properties. I mean, it already has the Mario fireball sound and a Hammer Bro outfit, they might as well have gone all the way.

 

Well, let's talk about the mechanics, starting with those outfits I mentioned. This is actually a neat mechanic that opens up several opportunities for different play styles, with outfits that give you boosts in various ways, such as powering up a specific item, making hearts more common, making you run slightly faster, or powering up your sword. They're unfortunately a pain to acquire, as they require both rupees and specific materials to unlock. The rupees won't be too big of a deal, but getting the right materials can require some tedious grinding. Each material is found in a chest at the end of each level, with two common materials and one uncommon material, but you can only pick one chest. You could easily find yourself replaying levels to find the ones you need, and if you're unlucky, that can take many replays. There is an outfit that shows you what materials are in the chests, but even that requires a decent chunk of change and late-game materials to even buy it.

 

That's to say nothing of Madame Couture herself, who has a very annoying voice clip you'll be hearing often if you continue to seek new outfits, and a very forced usage of "le" in much of her dialogue, coming off as a very fake French accent. I really don't like this character.

 

Well, let's get into the actual gameplay. To start, you're playing as Link and the aforementioned doppels, which are activated by an old man who speaks a charm and brings them to life. Then, you have to move both doppels as well as yourself into the Triforce panels so it can warp you into the wild "Drablands," where your adventure will take place. This is a tedious experience; you should be able to just walk in and go to the levels, having the doppels follow, instead of having to move them onto the panels each time, or even reactivating them entirely if you leave the activation room. It's already a minor pain in a series of minor pains to come.

 

So let's talk about the level system. There's eight areas in the game, plus a ninth arena area that I opted not to try out. Each area has four levels, which are themselves broken up into four stages. The fourth stage is usually either a boss or enemy gauntlet stage, but the fourth stage of the fourth level in any area will always be a boss. The other stages are predominantly puzzle stages, with a couple enemy gauntlets thrown in, causing you to make use of a limited item system similar to both Four Swords games. Unlike Four Swords, however, there are only three items in each level, and you can only pick one of those three to use throughout all four stages with each Link. It gives the levels somewhat of an advantage in that they're streamlined to accommodate these weapon setups, so it's not too much of a complaint. It does, for some reason, freeze gameplay to show a cutscene of the last item pedestal disappearing, which was completely unnecessary.

 

You control the doppels by switching between the red and blue ones (as well as your original self) by tapping on their corresponding button on the touchscreen. There's a minor complaint here: I wish your main Link's button was the bottom button instead of the middle button, which often threw me off. Could just be me, though. Anyway, the main mechanic is the "totem" mechanic, used to throw your comrades up onto higher platforms, attack enemies higher up, or use weapons in a certain manner. Fortunately, if you're controlling the character on the bottom, you can still use the sword and item of the doppel on top while moving around, making this not too much of a pain. In fact, unless you need to break apart for certain enemies or puzzles, you can carry your doppels throughout the levels and only get rid of them for brief moments when you need to to move on. It's not as much of a pain as I thought it would be, though it does take a little getting used to at first.

 

So you're playing along, and it's pretty basic at first, but later on, they tend to throw some decently creative item usage at you, mainly involving combining the usage of two items. It might take a little practice pulling some of these off in single-player, but the concepts were generally neat enough that I didn't mind. There's even some outside-the-box thinking involved that I appreciated. Even enemy behaviors seem to be improved from A Link Between Worlds, so it isn't just a complete recycling of code. There are some enemies that are annoying, such as Stalfos and Like Likes, but the challenge in fighting enemies is certainly improved from the previous game. At the end of each stage, there are more Triforce panels. Being me, I tended to try to fill them in with the corresponding color locations: Red (Power) at the top, Blue (Wisdom) on the left, and Green (Courage) on the right. Each panel even makes a different toned chime; the notes were perfect enough that I was able to play the Goron's Lullaby from Majora's Mask on occasion.

 

Can we talk about bosses too? Because the bosses in this game are actually really good. Some require a bit of outside-the-box thinking for single-player, but this just makes them feel all the more rewarding. There are a bit too many eyeball bosses, but even these can be creative. I think this was honestly the game's strongest point, and I don't know if there's a single boss I disliked. Maybe the really basic large ChuChu boss, but otherwise, this game has some pretty good bosses. Stalchampion in particular. That was a very good boss that I highly enjoyed.

 

It's not all fun and games, though. There's a little bit of tedium, mainly involving the micromanagement of doppels on certain levels, which got on my nerves a time or two. They also brought back that horribly stupid mechanic from the Game Boy Advance games, where, if Link catches on fire, he will run around the room helplessly for a second or two and be unable to do anything. This mechanic is unfun, only serves to waste time, and shouldn't have returned. There's often text scrolling across the screen, announcing stuff like "Link took damage," "Link found 5 rupees," "Link got a heart," and "Danger!" and "Mayday!" messages when your hearts are low. This may be mildly helpful in multiplayer (though I'd argue it wouldn't), but it's 100% pointless in single-player.

 

After you've completed each level, you keep getting the same message: "Press X to take Miiverse photos while in the Drablands." Even if you do take a picture, it never goes away. This was another unnecessary time waster; in general, there were a couple other messages I wish I could just skip and move on. Speaking of skipping, you can apparently do just that: Skip stages, via the "Skip" button. It sacrifices one of your three revive fairies you get each level, but you won't really need those until the later stages, and it seems like an unnecessary system. You could say it's good for grinding materials, except skipping too many stages means you may not get any materials at all. Maybe it just means there's a chance for the chests to be empty, but I didn't bother trying to see for sure.

 

And can we talk about how there's a softlock in the game? In the fifth area, in the third stage of the third level, there's a chance to get permanently stuck, forcing you to have to die to restart the stage if you did it wrong or don't have the right costume. Exemplary work there. Did I mention development was aided by Grezzo, the ones behind not only the 3DS ports of the Nintendo 64 titles, but the port and expansion levels of the original Four Swords? Remember how bad those bonus stages were? That's a tangent.

 

Back to the areas, once you complete all levels in an area, you unlock challenge stages for each level, based on certain requirements such as beating it within a time limit, carrying an object to a goal, or other such challenges, with the promise of greater rewards. I only tried one of these. They're not worth it. And from what I understand? To achieve true 100% in this game, you have to play every stage and challenge twice: Once in multiplayer, and again in single-player. This... is stupid. You don't even get any true special rewards for it. Bad Nintendo. At least you get to visit some of the areas in any order you choose... ?

 

At least the music is good. No really, the music is pretty enjoyable. Maybe not quite as memorable as other tracks, but certainly well-done and fitting for each area. The tracks even change a bit if you're in a totem, adding an extra choir track which even differs depending on your position on the totem. It's quite neat, and I definitely give the soundtrack fairly high marks. It really is nice to listen to and overall well-done.

 

Wish I could say the same for the story and characters. The character designs are for the most part honestly quite charming. It's too bad they're squandered on the most shallow plot in the series, and given no character development at all other than personality traits. It's a major disappointment, and honestly, the game almost sends a bit of a warped message: All that matters is looking fashionable. At least, that's the takeaway I got from it. I know it's supposed to be a silly game, but it's just too silly for Zelda.

 

Overall... the game is just okay. There's honest-to-goddesses gems in here, genius moments, great bosses, and really good music. They're just buried in a sea of mild tedium, squandered characters, cheesy dialogue, and pitiful story. I lied, I'm saying it again: This shouldn't have been a main series title in the slightest. It's not the worst Zelda game out there, but it's certainly not the best. Or most average. It's just... okay. You could definitely do worse with your time, but you could certainly also do much better.


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#146 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:53 AM

Elaborate on the soft lock please, http://zeldawiki.org...ri_Force_Heroeshas no mention of it.


Edited by Nicholas Steel, 10 October 2016 - 12:53 AM.


#147 The Satellite

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:02 AM

Fortress area, Training Ground level, stage three. There's a part where you have to throw a Link onto an Armos and ride it down a narrow walkway that's spewing boulders. The only way to get through is to have the other Links follow behind the Armos-riding Link. However, if you don't follow, you can end up placing the Armos in its stand, which forces you to hop off, preventing you from getting back on it since there's no high vantage point to hop back on, and there are no Links to throw you back onto it. Unless the other Links have the Goron suit in order to swim through the lava to get to that other side, you're stuck. There's no way to brute force it that I know of.

 

I imagine it wouldn't be listed on that page because it's not a glitch. I also wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only idiot who pulled this off.


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#148 The Satellite

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Posted 15 December 2023 - 03:01 AM

On April 17th of this year, I began a quest, an attempt to fulfill a longstanding desire: To record playthroughs of every single main series Zelda game. Only, instead of my original desire of recording Let's Plays, I am streaming them on my Twitch and uploading the playthroughs to YouTube. I call it "Way of the Hero," and I just finished Phantom Hourglass, so it's very definitely going to run into the middle of 2024 most likely. I'm even including a few of the spinoffs, though that list isn't as comprehensive, more so they're an excuse to blow off steam between a few entries.

 

Why am I posting about this here?

 

Well, after finishing Phantom Hourglass, I got a little nostalgic and started looking around the boards for old posts on the game by myself. Led me to this thread. To noticing that it began in May 2013. A decade ago, and only a few weeks off the same date I began Way of the Hero. Just finding it an amusing coincidence, that my most recent attempt at a Zelda marathon came on the tenth anniversary of the previous one. Guess I'm doing this again in 2033.

 

Anyway I haven't actually read a single word in this thread specifically and I don't recommend anyone else do it, they're probably outdated and most likely pretentious. I also balked at the ranking list as it's completely horrid. Zelda 1 at #5? Skyward Sword above Majora's Mask? Four Swords Adventures that low?! Well, at least the top three is correct. This is why I prefer tier lists. But even the last one I did (which is floating around on these boards somewhere) is a little out of date now that I'm doing this current marathon. Almost like opinions change over time. Not stopping me from planning on making a new one at the end of Way of the Hero though.

 

Hell, I don't even think Four Swords is a sin to all mankind anymore. Now I'm just indifferent. I've even lightened up on Minish Cap a bit, although admittedly Ezlo still severely hampered my enjoyment. And also all this dumb bullshit I went through Twilight Princess just makes me roll my eyes at my past self. Alright I lied about not having read a single word in this thread, but it was true when I typed it! Because I read the TP chronicle again, and there are points I still agree with both negative and positive, but certain points like the music and story not being that great? Man, I don't know what I was thinking. Spoiler alert, while TP was teetering outside S-rank on a previous tier list, this recent playthrough definitively bumped it to S and solidified it as one of my top favorite Zeldas, and, while I definitely never disliked Midna, this was the playthrough where I finally fell in love with her. Finally teared up at the ending.

 

Zelda games are great, y'all. Don't make up some imaginary strawman forcing you to dislike all or parts of a game that aren't actually offensive, and conversely don't fall prey to outside pressure to pretend to dislike elements you think are fine or even enjoy. And all the same, everyone has different likes and dislikes, so if you're a fan of that overlooked title most aren't fond of, that's great! If you don't click with the fan-favorite and it just doesn't suit you, that's fair too. Isn't that what truly makes this franchise so great?

 

sorry for getting emotional on a message board at 3AM I'm gonna have my Krabby Patty and go to bed g'night


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