74 replies to this topic

[David]

MEASLES?!  the fucking measles?  it's been over a decade since there was a SINGLE death in the USA from that disease and you'd have to be extremely immunocompromised to even get ill from the measles.  they like to say the unvaccinated are a risk, but the recently vaccinated are much more OF a risk and AT risk.

To be completely honest, it seems like you didn't even click the link that I posted about the measles if that is what you are saying about it. Recently, there has been an increase in the cases of measles simply because people are taking less vaccines and that has caused the "herd immunity" threshold to decrease below 92% (this is explained in the link about measles).

 

Also, about vaccines in general and their ingredients, here is a nice question and answer pdf created by The American Academy of Pediatrics. This is worth looking at because it pretty much disproves a lot of your beliefs, trudatman, and gives the scientifically proven answers to the questions. Source: http://www2.aap.org/...ingredients.pdf

Q&A about Vaccines

Questions and Answers about Vaccine Ingredients

 

Q. What ingredients are in vaccines?

A. All vaccines contain antigens. Antigens make vaccines work. They prompt the body to create the immune response needed to protect against infection. Antigens come in several forms. The form used in a vaccine is chosen because studies show it is the best way to protect against a particular infection.

Antigen forms include:

• Weakened live viruses. They are too weak to cause disease but can still prompt and immune response. Measles, mumps, rubella, rotavirus, chickenpox, and one type of influenza vaccines contain weakened live viruses.
• Inactivated (or killed) viruses. These viruses cannot cause even a mild form of the disease, but the body still recognizes the virus and creates and immune response to protect itself. In the United States, the polio, hepatitis A, influenza and rabies vaccines contain inactivated viruses.
• Partial viruses. These are made up of the specific part of the dead virus that will prompt a protective immune response. Some vaccines are made this way including the hepatitis B and HPV vaccines.
• Partial bacteria. These are made up of the specific part of the dead bacteria that will prompt a protective immune response. Some vaccines are made this way including the Hib, pneumococcal, meningococcal, diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccines.

Vaccines also contain other ingredients, which help make them safer and more effective. They include:

• Preservatives. They keep the vials from getting contaminated with germs.
• Adjuvants. They help the body create a better immune response. These are aluminum salts.
• Additives. They help the vaccine stay effective while being stored. Additives include gelatin, albumin, sucrose, lactose, MSG, and glycine.
• Residuals of the vaccine production process. Some ingredients are needed to make the vaccine. Although these ingredients are removed, tiny (residual) amounts are left in the final product. Depending on how the vaccine is made, it may include tiny amounts of antibiotics (neomycin), egg protein, or yeast protein.

Q. Are these other ingredients in vaccines safe?

A. Yes.

 

Q. Why are these other ingredients in vaccines?

A. Each ingredient has a specific function in a vaccine. These ingredients have been studied and are safe for humans in the amount used in vaccines. This amount is much less than children encounter in their environment, food and water.

• Aluminum salts. Aluminum salts help your body create a better immune response to vaccines. Aluminum salts are necessary to make some of the vaccines we use more effective. Without an adjuvant like aluminum, people could need more doses of shots to be protected. Everyone is exposed to aluminum because there is much aluminum in the earth’s crust. It’s present in our food, air and water, including breast milk and formula. The amount of aluminum in vaccines is similar to that found in 33 ounces of infant formula. Aluminum has been used and studied in vaccines for 75 years and is safe.
• Formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is used to detoxify diphtheria and tetanus toxins or to inactivate a virus. The tiny amount which may be left in these vaccines is safe. Vaccines are not the only source of formaldehyde your baby is exposed to. Formaldehyde is also in products like paper towels, mascara and carpeting. Our bodies normally have formaldehyde in the blood stream and at levels higher than in vaccines.
• Antibiotics. Antibiotics, such as neomycin, are present in some vaccines to prevent bacterial contamination when the vaccine is made. Trace amounts of antibiotics in vaccines rarely, if ever, cause allergic reactions.
• Egg protein. Influenza and yellow fever vaccines are produced in eggs, so egg proteins are present in the final product and can cause allergic reaction. Measles and mumps vaccines are made in chick embryo cells in culture, not in eggs. The much smaller amount of remaining egg proteins found in the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine does not usually cause a reaction in egg allergic children.
• Gelatin. Some vaccines contain gelatin to protect them against freeze-drying or heat. People with severe allergies to gelatin should avoid getting gelatin-containing vaccines.

Q. Do vaccines contain antifreeze?

A: No. Antifreeze is typically made of ethylene glycol, which is unsafe. Confusion has arisen, because polyethylene glycol (a chemical used personal care products like skin creams and toothpaste) is used in vaccines and is safe. It is used to inactivate the influenza virus in some influenza vaccines. It is also used to purify other vaccines.

 

Q. Do vaccines contain mercury?

A: Almost all childhood vaccines do NOT contain any mercury. Methylmercury, which is found in fish and other animals (including humans) can be toxic and lead to adverse effects in humans. Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, was removed from most childhood vaccines in 2001. Thimerosal contains a different form of mercury called ethylmercury, which is processed by the body very differently than methylmercury, and is not associated with the same adverse effects. It is still present in some influenza vaccines. Thimerosal is still used in the manufacture of some vaccines to prevent contamination. The thimerosal is removed at the end of the manufacturing process. In some cases, a tiny amount of thimerosal remains. The remaining amount is so small, that it is not possible for it to have any effect. Valid scientific studies have shown there is no link between thimerosal and autism. In fact, autism rates have actually increased since thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the American Medical Association (AMA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention CDC, and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) agree that science does not support a link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism. For the IOM report, go to http://www.iom.edu/C...4705/4717.aspx.

 

Q. Do vaccines contain fetal tissue?

A. No. A few vaccines involve growing the viruses in human cell culture. Two cell lines provide the cultures needed for producing vaccines. These lines were developed from two fetuses in the 1960s. The fetuses were aborted for medical reasons, not for the purpose of producing vaccines. These cell lines have an indefinite life span, meaning that no new aborted fetuses are ever used. No fetal tissue is included in the vaccines, either, so children are not injected with any part of an aborted fetus.

 

Q. Should vaccines be “greener”?

A. The amount of each additive used in vaccines is very small. In fact, we are exposed to much higher levels of these chemicals in our everyday lives. In vaccines, these ingredients are used to make the vaccine safer and more effective. Each vaccine is tested many times to make sure it is safe and works. Taking ingredients out might affect the ability of the vaccine to protect a child. Research is always being done to make sure that the ingredients in vaccines continue to be the safest and best available for children.

The information contained in this publication should not be used as a substitute for the medical care and advice of your pediatrician. There may be variations in treatment that your pediatrician may recommend based on individual facts and circumstances.

Copyright © American Academy of Pediatrics, January 2013

 

 

In any case, this argument about vaccines is getting a bit ridiculous and trivial at this point, in my opinion. I can and will believe that vaccines aren't dangerous to humans and that the "chemicals" we put in there are there for a reason, and you, trudatman, can believe that vaccines are dangerous and cause autism if you so choose. At this point there is really no incentive in changing your mind with scientific evidence and reasoning as it seems like it would lead to more arguing, which is something I'd like to avoid if possible.  Because of this, I'm deciding to discontinue further posting in this topic for the time being.

[trudatman]

I'll stop for a while, too.  pretty far off track and all.

[Limebeer]

yeah... i think if that discussiion is to go on it should be in its own topic

 

anyway, back to  the topic, everyone should learn some sort of art form, whether its painting, writing, drawing, music, etc

[lord_jamitossi]

I'm gonna go ahead and keep on the vaccinations train because it's so much fun when people get worked up.

My original post's message seems to have been missed, as usual. Along with trudatman's but on vaccinations he also lists vegetarianism, environmentalism and religious reformation as concerns. All of these come from a compassionate perspective, wanting people not to be controlled by a perceived external threat.

In many cases that threat does exist, I'll not deny this.

But in the case of vaccinations, no. The trouble, again, is that vaccinations involve a needle puncturing the skin and injecting what under some circumstances are dangerous materials into the body. To put it bluntly, the problem with vaccinations really is how strongly they resonate with a rape metaphor. The science doesn't matter in this argument and no amount of scientific persuasion is going to make a difference because once the emotions are riled up the facts that will be accepted are whichever ones support the present emotional state.

Really, and I have a bachelors degree in Neuroscience to back this up, the problem is elsewhere. The logical parts of the brain (previously called the left hemisphere, probably eventually we'll realize it's actually the upper parts of the frontal lobes), they get filled to capacity with something a person is unable or unwilling to speak about, so the emotive, lower frontal lobes (previously thought to be the role of the right hemisphere) take over and whatever arguments support what is being felt get taken as truth.

The opposite can happen as well, with the rational mind dominating when there is an emotional issue that is being repressed. Which is why I say that the scientists need to learn poetry and the poets need to learn to check their facts. Carl Jung said that every neurosis is the consciousness and the unconscious driving in opposite directions, and it is much easier to avoid getting into in the first place than it is to get out.

And a lot of the time, it just isn't fair and it sucks.

trudatman, sorry for talking about you here rather than talking to you. You can learn to meditate; it might help. Look up Vipassana meditation, they have free silent retreats worldwide that helped me enormously when I was going through the dark. Best to you.

Edited by lord_jamitossi, 30 March 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[SkyLizardGirl]

People need to learn:   What this is exactly before they die ..    http://en.wikipedia..../Bohemian_Grove  

 

Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 30 March 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[Chris Miller]

I already know what that is. o.o

[trudatman]

and the Bohemian Grovers want you to get vaccinated; thanks for bringing it back around!  anyway, no worries in the talking about/to stuff.  I do think meditation would benefit every being.  you have to know how to BE.  and aside from the obvious fear of needle rape, there really is logic and science behind many beliefs against mandatory vaccination.  yeah, it's raping your choice away, but it really is about what the vaccines are, contain and do to humans, for me, at least.  I know they are dangerous.  you may not believe you have been injured by these things, but I know I was.

[SkyLizardGirl]

and the Bohemian Grovers want you to get vaccinated; thanks for bringing it back around!  anyway, no worries in the talking about/to stuff.  I do think meditation would benefit every being.  you have to know how to BE.  and aside from the obvious fear of needle rape, there really is logic and science behind many beliefs against mandatory vaccination.  yeah, it's raping your choice away, but it really is about what the vaccines are, contain and do to humans, for me, at least.  I know they are dangerous.  you may not believe you have been injured by these things, but I know I was.

   

 

I also just saw this:  

 

 

 

 

 

You guys ever watch the INFOWARS?    0:33    to   6:10    80% of autistic children are boys.

  

 

 

      

!0~^!    http://www.wnd.com/2...ce-vaccination/   

 

Not saying what i believe or not ~ just find it funny..* // is allz.

Edited by SkyLizardGirl, 31 March 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[SpikeReynolds]

Everyone needs to learn that they are not, in fact, the protagonist in their own story. Sometimes, we (I'm super guilty of this) let self-importance get in the way of literally everything.

 

Also, everyone should be able to change a tire and drive stick. If you can't change a tire, you're fucked in a blowout. Actually, while we're on the subject, people should learn to fix anything they own that they cannot go without. I fix my cars, I fix my guitars, I can sew in a pinch, I can weld, I can solder, etc. etc. I don't want to be stuck without something important because I can't fix it and can't afford to have someone else fix it.

[trudatman]

I'm back to it because people have been engaging with me about the vaccines issues and I haven't put the time into putting all of my thoughts here for "the kids to learn from."  I do believe it is important and I do believe there is one side propped up by the status quo, the powers that be, the system.  there is another side that is ridiculed, imprisoned and tortured for being smarter and questioning authority.  I'm linking to an article that has kind of a mean tone (in reverse -- right back at you; take that, system!), but really does a great job of summing up and linking to evidence about the major points I'd be making were I to put the work in.  please don't be put off by the introduction and do the world a favor and stick with it, trying to see the "other" side.  anyway:  http://jennifermargu...5/03/blog-post/

 

oh, and the site has been getting overloaded lately, so if it doesn't work for you, give it a try again later.  thanks.

Edited by trudatman, 01 April 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[HavoX]

I believe everyone should learn to speak a different language in their lifetime.

 

I always wanted to learn Japanese...

[BlumiereBud]

One thing that I feel is really important is realizing that your emotions have patterns; if you're stressed out or angry all the time you will, without realizing it, look for subsequent excuses for returning to that mindset. We've all seen the nasty old lady who's always got some reason to go on about how today is the worst day ever; she can't help herself because she's addicted to it.

But more importantly that it's a breakable cycle if it's an issue for you and it can work in the opposite way; be happy often enough and you'll find a reason to smile on bad days. Your mileage may vary but recognizing patterns of negative thinking and working to correct them over time by 'overriding' the current theme in your head by instead, for instance, thinking of all the reasons one has to be grateful in a first world country.. it can have a profound effect on changing your general mood for the better if that's something you struggle with at all.

[Rambly]

people need to learn when, and how, to shut the fuck up

 

(this isnt directed to anyone or a "subtweet" post or w/e its just a good skill that nobody seems to have myself included lol.  i guess people overvalue their own opinions and it's the most irritating and arrogant thing ever, the vast majority of people in the world are far too arrogant maybe hard trait to overcome WHO CARES shUT THE FUCK UP)

Edited by Truckroid, 16 April 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Old-Skool]

It bothers me that US high schools apparently still don't teach anyone how to do taxes, especially since that applies to some of the students. 

If you don't work and have no idea what they are (don't feel bad because I didn't), its basically you crunching a bunch of numbers and paperwork to determine if the government owes you back any money they taxed out of your paycheck over the past year. Since claiming too much money means you could be dealing with the IRS, most people just take it to a professional service like H&R Block or something. To assist in the process, your work usually mails you a form (W-4) that details how much money you made last year, and how much of it was withheld in taxes. The trick (obviously) is to try and get back as much as possible without going over.  However, it is also entirely possible that you owe *them* some (though this is unlikely if your pay is set up to deduct taxes in full), so its always a good idea to get your taxes done, even if you feel you don't need that extra 300 or 600 or 1200 whatever dollars you are entitled to  

 

Edited by King Aquamentus, 16 April 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Chris Miller]

People should also not depend on technology as a substitute for higher brain functions like memorization, mathematics or navigation. 

 

Having a phone with a bajillion helpful numbers in it is no good if it's dead and you're out in the boonies with nothing but a payphone. 

 

A person should also be able to do arithmetic in their heads, something which an alarming amount of people can't.  I've even seen clerks who couldn't add up sales tax without a calculator. 

 

And for pete's sake, everybody, without exception, ought to be able to find their way on the road without a GPS.  They should have the common sense to have a real map in their vehicle and know how to read it.