75 replies to this topic

[imanualtongi]

This.

[Giggidy]

Now, in song form!

[Rover]

that's not how it works

[MoscowModder]

No one actually believes piracy is completely fine just because it doesn't take the original, right?

I mean, besides the OP?

[Koh]

that's not how it works

Actually it's pretty correct with it's wording...if you take the original Mona Lisa, you're stealing. If you redraw an exact copy of it, that's pirating. Two totally different things. Neither is morally correct, of course, unless said product is no longer accessible by normal means, such as old games being in stores anymore, thus the piracy for roms helps keep them alive for the curious people who want to check them out. Otherwise they are lost in the sands of time forevermore.

No one actually believes piracy is completely fine just because it doesn't take the original, right?

I mean, besides the OP?

I do if it's keeping copies of things that are no longer purchaseable/obtainable by regular "accepted" methods, like going to the store as mentioned above. Companies can't lose money over something that isn't sold anymore. And before anyone tries the eBay card, I'll tell you right now that that money does NOT go to the company, but whoever was the last person who held whatever it is you're buying. So unless you want to risk getting a beatdown copy of something old, pirated COPIES are much more ideal.

[Moosh]

I do if it's keeping copies of things that are no longer purchasable/obtainable by regular "accepted" methods, like going to the store as mentioned above. Companies can't lose money over something that isn't sold anymore. And before anyone tries the eBay card, I'll tell you right now that that money does NOT go to the company, but whoever was the last person who held whatever it is you're buying. So unless you want to risk getting a beatdown copy of something old, pirated COPIES are much more ideal.

That's still hurting the people who actually own physical copies and want to sell them. Also believe it or not there are some stores that still carry NES games. Also many of the games that you can easily find roms for are still being sold online via Virtual Console. Basically piracy fucks with supply and demand and there's still people who are hurt by it no matter how old the game. That said, who actually gives a fuck about people?

Edit: Haha I just realized I fixed a typo Koh made when proofreading my post...Oops!

Edited by Moosh, 18 September 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[Koh]

That's still hurting the people who actually own physical copies and want to sell them. Also believe it or not there are some stores that still carry NES games. Also many of the games that you can easily find roms for are still being sold online via Virtual Console. Basically piracy fucks with supply and demand and there's still people who are hurt by it no matter how old the game. That said, who actually gives a fuck about people?

Edit: Haha I just realized I fixed a typo Koh made when proofreading my post...Oops!

Again, the risk factor with eBay with that sort of thing isn't worth it IMO. For all you know, you could be getting a cartridge of something that just barely works, if even...one of those kinds of games that are so old and beat down, that you have to find that "sweet spot" to get it to work at all. It's not even worth putting up with all of that, and then resending/refunding/whatever else when you can just shut up and get the rom XD. Reminds me of Judge Judy..."You speak, I rule, and then you shut up! Do you understand?"

Edited by Koh, 18 September 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I don't care if pirating is wrong, or it's illegal, or if it causes project developers to lose ONE possible buyer, I'll do it anyway.

[Aegis Runestone]

The best case I've heard about piracy was from a friend. Basically he bought, legitimately, a TV series on DVD. One of the episodes did not work at all, and so he and his father downloaded via torrent that episode.

The pirated version was higher quality and worked perfectly.

Needless to say, his point was that the corporations need to outdo the pirates if they want to cull piracy. Piracy is not going away, but it seems like a lot of people go to it just because something they bought doesn't work.

[MoscowModder]

If you are only replacing something you bought that should work but doesn't, then it's fine in that context.

[NoeL]

Needless to say, his point was that the corporations need to outdo the pirates if they want to cull piracy.

Bingo. As Jim Sterling has argued many many times, companies need to stop whining about piracy (because it aint going away) and start treating them like competition. They need to learn that people will happily pay for convenience, so as long as your distribution method is easier/less intrusive than pirating people will pay for that service. Loading up your products with screen after screen of unskippable logos/warnings/promos, or horrible DRM that makes you jump through loops before you can use the product only hurts the end user - the paying customer. Why shouldn't they resort to piracy when it's not only cheaper, but comes without all this extraneous bullshit? see here.

Stores like iTunes and Steam have been successful because they take the hassle out of piracy. When you're pirating music you can never be sure how good the quality will be, or if you're even getting what you wanted - iTunes solves those problems. When you're pirating games you usually have to screw around with cracks and keygens and risk letting viruses into your machine, and sometimes the games don't even work - you know with Steam you're going to get a working game, automatic updates, that's a breeze to install and play.

In most cases people want to support the developers of products they enjoy, but some publishers *cough* EA *cough* Ubisoft *cough* act like they're determined to not get your money, by putting out a product that's worse than what the pirates are offering.

[Hergiswi]

I think NoeL is pretty spot on. We're at a point in time where the super-availability of information is conflicting with the monetary interest of companies, and frankly, the companies need to keep up. I realize that it's important for companies (e.g. bookstores) to stay in business, but I also refuse to let a bunch of arbitrary, bullshit copyright laws prevent me from getting a hold of the information I need.

[Giggidy]

No one actually believes piracy is completely fine just because it doesn't take the original, right?

I mean, besides the OP?

Well, yes. The only thing you're taking away when you pirate is potential profits, but you're not entitled to those. I took away potential profits from Nintendo when I decided to skip the Wii U. Is that wrong?

[Moosh]

I took away potential profits from Nintendo when I decided to skip the Wii U. Is that wrong?

The flaw in your logic is that by skipping the Wii U, you didn't obtain a Wii U. With piracy you get the product without paying the money.

[Giggidy]

The flaw in your logic is that by skipping the Wii U, you didn't obtain a Wii U. With piracy you get the product without paying the money.

Let's say I built my own Wii U, at home, using my own materials and my own knowledge. This isn't all that different from coding an emulator, actually. I then use it to play Wii U games that I legally purchased.

Would that be stealing?

Besides, this is missing the point that the anti-piracy argument is that piracy hurts companies. Nintendo is completely unaffected when I choose to pirate a product of theirs instead of not buying it. For the company-harm argument to hold, either both or neither of these are wrong.

Edited by Giggidy, 19 September 2012 - 10:00 AM.