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These "Continue" kerfuffles, I swear...

Continue Save Game on Entry Save Point Continue Here Continue Here Save Statue

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#1 ShadowTiger

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 04:30 AM

*Puts a few tags in the topic for reasons*

 

Continues.  They're pretty darn crazy.  Just when you think your character is going to have a guaranteed continue, they end up starting somewhere else.  Just how do continues work?

 

Specifically, how do continue-related features interact with each other?

 

Suppose I have Save Statues, but also use Entrance/Exit type of warps.  Which has priority?

 

Also, what do the three F9 Screen Data second tab "Save" category features do?

  • Save Points Continue Here

  • Save Game on Entry

  • Continue Here

 

I know that "Save Game on Entry" actually creates an F6 Save dialog for you automatically on entry, but I've also had plenty of examples of where someone saves at my Save Statues that have the Save Points Continue Here checked, but then continue somewhere else, or maybe even at another Save Statue somewhere else.

 

So what does the "Continue Here" screen flag do, anyway?  Is that something that takes effect when you just exist on the screen, or when you specifically save at a save point? 



#2 Lüt

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:32 PM

tbh I've never opened the can of worms that is save points.

But I can tell you about the standard continue system.

First, let's assume you got ZQ 2.5x's notice that the green arrival square system is deprecated, and enabled the "Use Warp Return Points Only" quest rule.

With that set: if you leave a DMap as level 0 and check the "Continue Here" box, you'll always start at the screen listed in the "Continue" field. Traditional overworld setup. However, if you assign a DMap a level of 1 or greater, you'll always start at the last used entry warp regardless of the screen listed in the "Continue" field. Necessary for multi-entrance maps. If you don't have "Continue Here" checked, you'll start at the last used DMap with a "Continue Here" option set, regardless of what level number you give the DMap that doesn't use the continue option.

All of this requires you to use the "Entrance/Exit" warp type. If you use another warp type, the continue system won't activate and you'll start at screen 00 regardless of the screen listed in the "Continue" field.

And you probably know that continues always use warp return A regardless of what warp return the actual "Entrance/Exit" warp uses.

So that's all I have.

As a player, I generally use F6 rather than save points since I'm not entirely sure how they work, and as a designer, I don't find they feel particularly natural in Z1/Z3-styled quests anyway, so for both reasons, I've never bothered looking into them. I mean, it took me 2 years to fully grasp the standard system, I'm not ready to spend another 2 years learning an extended system :P
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#3 ShadowTiger

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:56 PM

tbh I've never opened the can of worms that is save points.

I only made save points so people would have specific locations to start from. It wouldn't be impossible to eliminate any "Entrance/Exit" type warps and replace them with Warp/OpenWipe either so no continue points would be set there.
 

But I can tell you about the standard continue system. First, let's assume you got ZQ 2.5x's notice that the green arrival square system is deprecated, and enabled the "Use Warp Return Points Only" quest rule.

I always put the Warp Return[A] and the Green square on the same coordinate anyway, just in case. It's not like it can hurt anything. It can only protect someone from disaster, even if it takes literally one extra second to click the lower box and then the screen.
 

With that set: if you leave a DMap as level 0 and check the "Continue Here" box, you'll always start at the screen listed in the "Continue" field. Traditional overworld setup. However, if you assign a DMap a level of 1 or greater, you'll always start at the last used entry warp regardless of the screen listed in the "Continue" field. Necessary for multi-entrance maps. If you don't have "Continue Here" checked, you'll start at the last used DMap with a "Continue Here" option set, regardless of what level number you give the DMap that doesn't use the continue option.

See, this here is the part that really puts an iron bar in my bicycle wheel. If there are multiple continue statues to save in, each of which should allow you to respawn from that statue, and they're all in the same Dmap with the same Level Number, and it's just dependent on the Dmap's continue point, then of course it wouldn't give you the option to continue from those individual statues.

You definitely raise an interesting point there, and I thank you for it. That likely means, if I have save statues scattered all over the place, I'm going to have to divide the overworld up into separate yet identical Dmaps, each of which has a closer approximate continue point to where the player would've been able to go at that point. Seems annoying, but certainly doable.
 

All of this requires you to use the "Entrance/Exit" warp type. If you use another warp type, the continue system won't activate and you'll start at screen 00 regardless of the screen listed in the "Continue" field.

Indeed. Though I do like to assume that the quest-designer was diligent enough to not keep the continue point at 00. That's just silly.
 

And you probably know that continues always use warp return A regardless of what warp return the actual "Entrance/Exit" warp uses.

A time-tested tradition, oh yes. I think people these days just place the green square out of instinct. I know I do.
 

So that's all I have. As a player, I generally use F6 rather than save points since I'm not entirely sure how they work, and as a designer, I don't find they feel particularly natural in Z1/Z3-styled quests anyway, so for both reasons, I've never bothered looking into them. I mean, it took me 2 years to fully grasp the standard system, I'm not ready to spend another 2 years learning an extended system :P

A fair thing to say, and one I wish I could join. At some point, it's a battle for sanity between the quest-designer and the quest-player. Should the quest designer put in the extra effort to make save points to assure the player their location will be preserved at that point? Or will the player be left wondering where they'll continue at all times, but the quest designer can actually release their quest within a decade of creating it. An age-old battle, surely.

Thank you very much for the response!

#4 venrob

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 05:02 PM

Save points are just a combo type, and if you press START while standing on one, it opens the F6 menu. (I just learned this when I needed to test them with a new feature to ensure I didn't break anything). As for how the `Save Point->Continue Here` works I have no clue.

 

EDIT: 

void save_game(bool savepoint)
{
    if(savepoint)
    {
        game->set_continue_scrn(homescr);
        game->set_continue_dmap(currdmap);
        lastentrance_dmap = currdmap;
        lastentrance = game->get_continue_scrn();
    }

So uh, that appears to set it from a savepoint

 

EDIT2:

 

Oh, but that's only called from scripted `Game->Save()`.... a different function is called instead, which appears... like it only sets the continue point if you choose `continue` from the save point's menu??

That seems like it could be a ZC bug...

EDIT3: No, that's correct, as the other options all cancel, so should not set the continue point.


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#5 ShadowTiger

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 05:33 PM

Well yay, I started a thing! g8xb5Gc.png  Thank you for the response, and for looking into it! 

 

I think I'll go to Shardstorm and look for the word "Continue" to see if they mention what these actual screen flags do.

 

Okay, from build 1018:

"Changed the name of Screen Flags: 'Use As Save Screen(SP)' to 'Save Point -> Continue Here', and 'Use As Save Screen (AUTO)' to 'Save Game On Entry'. This is to reflect that you don't really need the firstmentioned Screen Flag alongside a Save Point combo, but it's what most situations would call for."

* Tweaked the Large Mode screen information: now, screens with Save Point combos and the 'Save Point -> Continue Here' are labeled 'Save-Continue Screen', screens with just Save Point combos are labeled 'Save Screen', and screens with the 'Save Game On Entry' flag are labeled 'Automatic Save/Continue Screen'.



#6 Avataro

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 05:39 PM

Btw here's what ZCWiki says about those screen flags:

 

bcjU2Ik.png

 

Basically it's all really complicated and I don't use any of them, or Entrance/Exit warps. Just using "Continue Here" DMaps to keep it all simple and logical.


Edited by Avataro, 10 July 2019 - 05:40 PM.

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#7 ywkls

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 10:12 AM

I had a lot of trouble with the built-in save point combos and flags myself a while back.

To overcome this, these days I use a scripted save point system.

Originally devised by ZoriaRPG, I've modified it a bit where that I can use it in any quest.

It was originally designed only to support 20 save points, but I've had no problems using more than that.

If you like I provide details either here or on Discord.



#8 ShadowTiger

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:46 PM

Certainly, I appreciate that. I do have work-arounds in case of issues though, but they involve creating individual dmaps for those save points that are on the same Dmap as other save points, just to give them their own Dmap Continue Point. I have tons of Dmaps to spare, so I don't mind.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Continue, Save Game on Entry, Save Point Continue Here, Continue Here, Save Statue

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