147 replies to this topic

[The Satellite]

Then that's what I'll do. I'm through the first three dungeons of Seasons, though I'm also playing Donkey Kong Country 3D (though I haven't touched it in a couple days) and some quests on the side, but hopefully I'll try not to take too long through these two games. This is actually the first time I'll be completing either of them (I'll talk more about my Seasons experience when I get to the post), and the first time I'll have ever touched Ages. So this'll be fun for me. The only other game I haven't beaten is The Minish Cap, I got through the first two levels before, but that was during an attempt at a blind LP that sort of lost steam and I got tired of limiting myself to these episodes for playtime. So this is my chance to play it on my own at my own speed when I get there.

 

Glad you guys are enjoying the thread and my entries.

[The Satellite]

Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages
 
Overview

Well, this was a story I expected to be simpler. Capcom says, "Hey Nintendo, we love your series and would love to be given the opportunity to help build one of the games," and Nintendo's like "Oh hey yeah guys we love your work and have supported you for a long time, we'd love to have you help out on our games." And everyone was happy.

... it was slightly different. It was more like Capcom proposing their idea for a few Zelda games to Miyamoto, who turned them down. Their response was to threaten to create a series to compete with Zelda if they weren't given their chance. A somewhat childish response to not getting their way, but one that worked anyway. This I never knew, and it surprised me to learn this was the actual case.

The original deal was for Capcom to make six Game Boy Color Zelda games, starting with two remakes. The first remake was of the original Legend of Zelda, but as the team implemented the gameplay and began to create and form new ideas, they wanted to jump straight into an original game. Of course, Oracle of Seasons retains some clues of its being a remake, which we'll get to below. But the plan now was to create a series of connected games, a trilogy at first, but the password system they implemented was too complicated to use across three games. So three became two, and led to Capcom's first entries into the Zelda series: Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages.

The games could be played in either order, and beating one game would give you a password to take to the next game, slightly changing the story and events within the game. An interesting new system, to be sure. Either way, you start off with Link riding to Hyrule Castle (or some temple, I forget) where the Triforce rests. It then sends him to a distant land, Holodrum in Oracle of Seasons, or Labrynna in Oracle of Ages. Link would then save this world and be transported to the other world to save it as well.

Thus begins not only Link's journey, but Capcom's into the world of Zelda. Was it for better or for worse though? Well, you'll find out below.

Oracle of Seasons

As mentioned above, development of Oracle of Seasons began as a remake of the original Legend of Zelda, and in places it shows. Level one, for example, is located within a single dead tree on an island you reach via a bridge from the right. Nearly all of the bosses are a massive upgrade from the original Zelda bosses. There are old men hiding in caves that give or take rupees. It also, in a way, has one more similarity to the original: Freedom of exploration. ... in a sense. It doesn't drop you in the world without direction, and the entire overworld isn't available until you find new items, but the sections that are available to you at first require a good bit of exploration to find your way around, with as little handholding as possible.

In this game, story is also quite sparse. You're plopped in Holodrum next to a dancing troupe, led by Din, the Oracle of Seasons. She had cared for you while you were out, and invites you to dance. But a storm hits, scattering the troupe, as the villain of the game appears: The Iron Knuckle Onox. He captures her, binds her in the Temple of Seasons, and submerges it, throwing the Seasons out of whack so he can... Uh, wreak havoc, I guess.

Anyway, this presents the gameplay gimmick of the game: The changing of seasons. Of course, you can't do this quite yet, as you need a particular item first: The Rod of Seasons. But you can't fully control the seasons until you unlock all four powers of the Season Spirits. Then you can stand on a tree stump to change the season at any time.

Why a tree stump? ... I dunno, it's just a gameplay convention, let's go with that.

Anyway, it borrows heavily from Link's Awakening, but with some tweaks; no more annoying "this rock is heavy" messages just from tapping an object (you actually have to push it for a few seconds), the menus load faster and text scrolls faster, the menus are more streamlined for the four-button display, it's generally a much more fluid experience superficially.

In general, Capcom made a pretty convincing Zelda game. A good, sprawling land with smart dungeon design and little quirks here and there. But there were definitely those moments of clarity when you're suddenly shoved with something that makes you think "Oh that's right, Capcom made this." Such moments are somewhat jarring and take me out of the experience, and don't seem to entirely mesh well with the rest of the game. These moments, however, are few.

Sometimes, it can feel like the game doesn't really give you a good sense of direction. But all this takes is some good exploration, which always was the point of the Zelda series to begin with. You look around, discover, and find the secrets. It may seem confusing on first experience, but it's not much different than other games, where exploration was key; you just likely know those games better, and that point is easily achievable with this game as well. Exploring the overworld, finding hints and clues, completing a goal to find a next area, it's all a very enriching experience.

What the world lacks is life. I never once felt truly invested in the lives of the Holodrumites. The seasons were out of whack, and most people were just like "What? Constant changing of the seasons? Well it's kind of annoying but whatever." There never seemed like any sort of desperation, any drive to save the world. Din's kind of floating there in the background like "Okay please save me," but she's never really given enough history to make you care for her. She's a dancer, and she's an Oracle. Her capture doesn't really make much of an impact, I guess. The villain's motives were never really clear, either.

Story-wise, Seasons is kind of a weak point. I enjoyed the dungeon design and freedom of exploration, but I still never once felt like it was an urgent quest. The immersion is lost. And I won't lie, navigating Holodrum, even without stopping to change Seasons now and then, could be kind of tedious. The season-based exploration and puzzles were fine, but the overworld design felt kind of limited. Seemed like there only certain ways to reach certain areas, and it took a while to go through them. I suppose it's a nice change up on the one main overworld branching out, but that's also what makes it a little more tedious. Gale Seeds helped, but only a little.

Musically the game also falls a bit flat. There's a couple of songs that are pretty good, but the rest of the soundtrack is honestly pretty mediocre and forgettable. For a game coming from the combined creative musical genius of Nintendo and Capcom, that's very surprising and disappointing. But alas, that's the way things roll.

Then there was Subrosia. This was an odd little side area that added a neat new angle to the game. Subrosia is a subterranean environment, where you'll find the submerged Temple of Seasons, where you go after the first four dungeons to collect the Season Spirits and power up the Rod of Seasons. The Subrosians are a quirky species that are always hooded, that value Ore Chunks rather than rupees, and just live an odd way of life. It's one of the truly alive-feeling parts of the game, with several portals spread across Holodrum that let you explore parts of Subrosia in order to access each section of the Temple of Seasons, and allow you to clear or find shortcuts to the rest of Subrosia so you can reach almost the entire area from any warp point.

Otherwise, while designed well in most places, Seasons lacks the depth and immersion and life that many other games of the series have to draw you in and totally invest you in the world. The dungeon designs were definitely good and fun, and clever, and the boss fights were generally tough, challenging, and spectacular, but without that life, Seasons didn't come off as a very interesting game to me. Doesn't mean it doesn't earn its place in the Zelda series, but it just doesn't feel as fun or grand as many of the other games in the series. Still, it's worth a play and a replay, and the replay value is fairly high, especially with the linked game system, and it definitely stands proudly among the Zelda franchise as an enjoyable game.

Oracle of Ages
 
This is where the tone suddenly took a one-eighty. I went from being totally distanced from Holodrum to completely invested in Labrynna. The villain actually does a good job presenting herself as, well, a villain in the first minute of the game. This game had me drawn in pretty quickly, and it was also puzzling and intelligent. On occasion the solutions are... obscure, but the experience overall is quite fun. Seasons was a more combat-focused game, whereas Ages was more puzzle-based. This is good. I like my Zelda games to be puzzling.
 
One tradeoff is that the bosses and minibosses are no longer as interesting as they were in Seasons. For the most part. Most have a clever way of battling them, but once you figure out that tactic, then they're really pretty simple. Only a couple were truly challenging, and level eight's boss in particular was pretty fun. The game definitely does a good job at challenging your thinking patterns. The only time this is annoying is the reliance on firing Mystery Seeds at a couple choice bosses. I think it might have been hinted at earlier, but it was a vague and forgettable hint. It was a... questionable design choice, in my opinion.
 
The dungeons are definitely a bit different than Seasons. Seasons dungeons were clever in their own way, but Ages went above and beyond. I was invested and challenged, and I loved that feeling. Solving these puzzles felt more rewarding, and the dungeon layouts just felt superior to Seasons. The only part where that stumbles is... you guessed it, Jabu-Jabu's Belly. Honestly, I like the design philosophy and gimmick of the dungeon. It was just, the execution... have fun with your relentless backtracking if you miss something. And you might get lost, too. It was a bit frustrating, I'm sure it's a dungeon that's nowhere near as bad in repeat playthroughs, but it was definitely intimidating and frustrating on the first run.
 
As a total package, though, Ages is definitely a strong hit. I felt the only irritating parts of the game were the Tokay sidequest, the forced sidequests to open up the Mermaid's Cave in both time periods, and all of Jabu-Jabu. The Tokay sidequest wasn't too bad, it was just slightly tedious. The Mermaid's Cave quest was just incredibly tedious towards the end, with the infamous Goron Dancing (which wasn't all that bad until you do the optional, harder ones) and forcing you to play minigames for the quest items in the mini trading sequences. Not that the minigames weren't fun, but I'd rather play those at my own leisure rather than be forced to for the sake of game progression. And I already talked about Jabu-Jabu.
 
Oh, and the Mermaid Suit. The controls for that were just awful.
 
But otherwise, Ages felt like a strong game. Good story, good atmosphere... and time travel? Well, it was well-implemented and clever, I thought. And it reminded me very much of the light/dark world feature of A Link to the Past. It also added much to the immersion; things you did in the past affected the present and you actually got to reap the benefits of your good deeds. Such as saving Symmetry City. It was a good feeling. There were also the neat little touches of changing landscape in the past to change the future. This is where the heart of the game is. This is where the game gets its life. And it's very enriching.
 
Not a ton to say here, I think some of my points from Seasons can carry over to this part of the conversation. I didn't really talk about the items, since I mistakenly thought both games had the same items. I'll cover that below. But Ages definitely was a fun venture, even if the bosses weren't the most challenging. And while Seasons was a bit of a letdown for me, despite being a solid game, Ages definitely catapulted its way to being one of my favorite Zelda games. With a great atmosphere, great villain, and a good cast of characters, it's a very engaging game. Not as engaging or wonderful as Link's Awakening, but it stands up there.
 
Conclusion

That's not all there is to the story. We get treated to neat little sidequests based on the continuing story of the linked games. Zelda's arrival in Holodrum or Labrynna, or the various secrets you can take back and forth between games, adding an interesting extra layer to the game. The story grows as the true masterminds of the story, Twinrova, are revealed, as well as the plot to revive Ganon. Unfortunately, the fights with them are fairly simple, and not too challenging, but still mostly fun fights. The rings they add, while completely optional, can add neat little effects or help make the game easier for you. The games are in fact littered with secrets, which is the heart and soul of the Zelda series, and give the games longevity. Heck, even good replayability comes with deciding to play through both games the other way, to see how the story changes between them.

 

The Oracle games were definitely an interesting new venture, but not an out-of-place one. Capcom, under Nintendo's direction, did admirably, bringing two new adventures to the table that earned their place in the Zelda anthology. They added a few new things and streamlined the Game Boy engine. They even added some awesome new items; the magnet gloves and the switch hook come to mind. So began Capcom's venture into the beloved Zelda series, and entered with a bang. Will they continue their success? We shall have to see...

[Nicholas Steel]

Nice review.

[Evan20000]

I'm glad you finally got around to playing these!

[DCEnygma]

Great stuff, TS! I really dig your write-ups and it's really fun hearing about your experiences as you go through these. I hope you enjoy Minish Cap as much as you enjoyed Oracle of Ages!

[Nicholas Steel]

Minish Cap is pretty awesome stuff.

[The Satellite]

Glad you guys are enjoying them.

 

I actually tried blind LPing Minish Cap back on my old, cruddy computer, but for whatever reason lost interest just after level two and never picked it back up. So this time I'll be able to play it without restraints and be able to finish it, and then I can finally have played every single Zelda game in the series. I liked what I played enough, so hopefully Minish Cap is enjoyable throughout. Looking forward to that one, but there's three games between that and Oracles.

[kurt91]

Out of the two games, I liked Ages much more than Seasons for the same reasons you described, but I liked Subrosia in Seasons a lot as well. I kind of wish that it was in Ages instead, because then I wouldn't have a reason to want to mess with Seasons and could just enjoy the one game instead.

 

I honestly have never played the full version of the game(s). I own both Ages and Seasons, but I've never completed a linked game. You see, I had gotten Ages from a used game store long after the game had come out, and enjoyed it a lot. Unfortunately, I could never find Seasons anywhere to play it. I got the idea to just replay Ages with a linked-game code off the internet, but I really didn't want to play the same game a second time in a row just to get an extra boss or two. A long time later, I had gotten Seasons and decided to play through it, but I had forgotten my password from Ages, couldn't find the game cartridge anywhere to copy it from, and my internet connection at the time was so bad that it would take half an hour to load a normal web page. (We only had the phone lines to deal with, and we live in a sort of area where the neighbors will repeatedly crash into the phone boxes on a regular basis, and every year when they come to scrape the roads since they're all dirt roads, they'd sever the phone lines and they'd have to send somebody to patch them up.) I decided to just play it normally and finished it that way.

 

Nowadays, I don't have my old GBA anymore, and my DS doesn't play GBC games. I don't really feel like hunting down my little sister's pink GBA, and playing it on emulator just doesn't feel quite right, you know? There's a difference between playing on a system and using a keyboard that kind of ruins it for me a little bit. So, I've just never gotten around to truly finishing the game.

 

Out of curiosity, what parts of the game pulled you out of it and just screamed "CAPCOM MADE THIS!!!" to you?

[The Satellite]

As far as its availability, well, you could grab it off the eShop if you have a 3DS, but I'm not sure if you had one or not. Anyways, as far as blatant Capcom moments, it was generally when it came to bosses, particularly how Onox was Sigma. Maybe some of the sidescroller segments seemed Capcomish as well, and occasionally difficulty moments. I didn't feel it as much in Ages, though I suppose some of the obscure solutions can be comparable to certain Megaman segments, like the Magnet Beam in the first. ... okay, just kidding. The moments were more apparent in Seasons than in Ages, but they were there.

[The Satellite]

Four Swords

 

Running off the success of Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages, Capcom delved straight back into the Zelda series with... a party game? That's more or less what Four Swords was. A party game. "Oh, so surely that's not one of those games in the main series, like Link's Crossbow Training." ... no, Four Swords is considered an official Zelda title. So I will treat it as such.

 

First, some history. Four Swords was originally a game that could only be played with two-to-four people, and not everyone would have link cables, so that would kind of be a bad idea from a business perspective to try to sell a game like that, where people without link cables or without friends that had link cables (or without friends) couldn't even play the game and wouldn't buy it. So they decided to tack on a port of A Link to the Past as well to boost sales. Smart decision. And I won't talk much about the port, other than to note the connectivity features below.

 

Anyway, Four Swords introduces new fan-favorite villain Vaati, who Zelda describes to us as a villain who was sealed within the Four Sword, another legendary sword of Hyrule, by a boy who was able to split into four using its power. Vaati then appears, revealing the seal has weakened, allowing him to escape. Some legendary sword, eh? Anyway, he kidnaps Zelda and escapes, knocking out Link in the process. He is awoken by fairies, telling him to take the sword and go save Zelda. He does so, splitting into four (or however many people are playing) and sets off to save the day. Pretty interesting story premise.

 

Now, I never had the "pleasure" of experiencing this game in its original form, as no friends of mine owned the game, though I owned a link cable. I once tried to use Netplay on an emulator with friends, but it wouldn't work. Luckily, Nintendo released the Anniversary Edition by Grezzo, the same team behind Ocarina of Time 3D's port, which included a new single-player mode, allowing me to experience this game.

 

I didn't really enjoy it.

 

Okay, to be fair, it was designed for multiple people, and to be a sort of party game. And I imagine the experience is far more fun when you're cooperating (or not cooperating) with friends. But this game lacks the Zelda feel entirely. You're given three scenarios to choose from in any order: Sea of Trees, Talus Cave, and Death Mountain. Before this, you're taken to a tutorial stage, where you can choose to go through a series of short tutorial levels explaining the controls and teaching you how to use the various items of the game; there's an option to skip all of these entirely as well, so it's not forced on you. But each scenario is anything but a Zelda-style level, more a series of a few strange obstacles and rooms where you attempt to find the key to move to the end of one section of the level, collecting a heart container before heading to the next segment. Usually there are two segments, then a boss fight.

 

None of these are really any good. Link seems to move far too slowly, even when you max out his speed via Pegasus Seeds. The levels feel too tedious, because you're going through these obstacles, scouring chests trying to find a key, whose location is randomly generated. The secrets only feel rewarding if you're playing for competitiveness. The boss fights are generally far too simple, even the final boss. Once you beat a scenario, you're given a silver key from the Great Fairy. Collecting all three silver keys opens the Palace of Winds. This level follows the same rules as the other levels, with the final boss fight at the end.

 

It's a straightforward game with very little meat to it. I do suppose it was built for multiplayer competitiveness, but it still does not possess that Zelda feel to it. I don't think I could even justify the competition atmosphere in a Zelda game, that too feels unlike Zelda. I'd feel more comfortable with this game's existence if they had detached it from the Zelda mythos and considered it non-canon, like the other spinoffs we get. Well, that Japan gets. But as an entry into the official series, it feels very weak, very odd, very... unfitting.

 

If there was one aspect I thought was sort of neat, it was the items on pedestals that you could switch out for, and only carry one item at a time to create for strategic situations. Not Zelda-like, which I know I was complaining about before, but the opening for picking your items wisely was a pretty good aspect. Unfortunately, it was pretty straightforward with how you used them; if an item popped up, you were likely going to need that, so it's not really worth it to try to hold onto an old item. Otherwise, it more or less plays like a Zelda game... control-wise. But that's really where the similarities end. As mentioned above, there were Pegasus Seeds, but not the same as in the Oracle games; these, as well as Razor Seeds and Armor Seeds. You had the capability of maxing out your attack, defense, and speed stats by two in each scenario by finding these seeds. This... wasn't a system I enjoyed. I want my speed to be consistent (and not slow) from the start, and attack and defense upgrades... Well, I suppose there weren't really many better ways to implement those, but I feel there was probably something better they could have done there.

 

The original Four Swords did feature connectivity with A Link to the Past in the sense that finding the Master Sword in the latter unlocked sword beams in the former. Collecting ten medals of courage in Four Swords unlocked a Riddle Quest in A Link to the Past. Completing Four Swords' main game and defeating Ganon in A Link to the Past unlocked the Palace of the Four Sword, located in the Pyramid of Power. This dungeon featured a few updated boss rematches and a new final boss and credits sequence. The interconnectivity functionality was nice, but wasn't a true payoff in the direction of Four Swords. Still, it was at least a neat new feature.

 

So, Four Swords would have been better off as a non-canon party game and not a main entry in the series. At least, I say that, and yet we received sequels in Four Swords Adventures and The Minish Cap. Both of these games, granted, seem to be fairly overlooked by the Zelda fan base, and while there are those fans that love them, there are those too who do not care for them and probably wouldn't be affected too much if they were just to disappear. Those, I shall be getting to, and I'll revisit this point about Four Swords being better off as a party game in each of those chronicles. But since Four Swords wants to be included in the discussion of official Zelda games, then I'm afraid I must criticize it equally, and it gets a heavy blow from me. Four Swords, you tried, but you just can't keep up with the rest of the official titles, I'm afraid.

[kurt91]

I have this one. It's the only version of LttP that I was able to fully beat. (I only got to borrow the SNES version from a friend and he eventually wanted it back.) I really hated how you had to have another person with the game to play the Four Swords portion of the game, and for a very long time, I never got to play it. Finally, my cousin got the game and we were able to play it together.

 

I will say this for the game. It's a good thing it's so damned short, because we were able to beat it and get all the unlockable goodies for LttP after a single session. If you're going to force mulitplayer on people, you better make it really short because it's too damned impractical to have to coordinate meeting sessions to be able to play through a long game that REQUIRES local multiplayer. If this had come out later for the DS, so that we could have used the online features in a similar setup to Mario Kart DS, then it would have been much more interesting. This game just came out too early.

 

Unfortunately, my cousin moved away, and my little siblings decided to delete my (finally) 100% complete file so that they had yet another slot to play the intro sequence in. (Honestly, why would you need all three files that only get as far as walking to the castle. Not going inside, just wandering around) Now, I don't have anybody to play this with anymore, so I'm never going to have my 100% file back ever again. The worst part about the whole thing was that I got yelled at by my parents for getting upset at my younger siblings over it because it was "just a video game". Yeah, I haven't touched it since then. That happened a couple years ago, and I'm still a bit sore about it.

 

Moral of the story: NEVER make your single-player portion of the game REQUIRE multi-player to be completed to get 100%. You'll just piss off the completionists who live in the middle of nowhere and don't have anybody to play with.

[The Satellite]

The Wind Waker

 

The history of this one was colorful. We all should know the story by now: In the year 2000, when the Gamecube was being showcased for the first time, a tech demo was released of a one-on-one sword duel between Link and Ganondorf, in a style similar to Ocarina of Time. Zelda fans were quite pleased, believing this to be a preview of the next Zelda game. However, fast forward to a year later, when The Wind Waker was first revealed, and the graphical style was instead a cuter, cartoonish, cel-shaded look. The reaction was mixed at best, fans being disappointed that the graphical style of the 2000 demo was being scrapped, and others feeling the look was too "kiddie," and that the Zelda franchise was in danger.

 

Oh, how wrong they all were.

 

What we got was one of the most unique entries in the series to date. It still followed the Zelda formula, but in a new way. Gone were the open fields and terrain, replaced instead by islands and ocean. Story was also a main focus, for the first time since A Link to the Past, we actually get to see the lore of the Zelda universe treated as, well, a legend. The game opens up recounting the story of Ocarina of Time, but in a painting, like a scroll, complete with a somber melody and a remix of the classic Zelda tune. However, it also reveals to us that Ganon returned, but the Hero did not, and Hyrule's fate was left mysterious. It concludes telling us of a tradition on an island where boys of age are garbed in green.

 

Then the game opens on Outset Island, and here's where the first shaking up of the Zelda formula happens: We get to see Link's family, and friends, and get to take control of Link and experience a small taste of his home life instead of directly being thrust into an adventure. Sure, one could argue we could do the same in Ocarina of Time, but the game still pretty much nudges you to adventure from the start. Wind Waker does not, as instead Link explores his town, learning little tips, collecting rupees, bringing little pigs to your neighbor to keep as pets, learning sword techniques from Orca... and getting embarrassed by your grandma. It's all a very tight-knit community, or so it seems, and everyone seems to have their own little quirks and habits. Then there's Link's sister, Aryll, the one that spurs him on this quest, when she's soon kidnapped by a giant bird mistaking her for a pirate girl it dropped on the summit's forest. These pirates, the girl being their leader, Tetra, are the ones who take Link, after he acquires his sword and shield, to the first leg of his quest, to where Link's sister was taken.

 

You're launched into the Forsaken Fortress, but you lose your sword. This is another shake-up: A stealth section. If you get caught by searchlights, tossed into prison. Moblins? Tossed into prison. You can escape, but you now know you have to be careful, sneaking around using barrels as cover. You have to disable the searchlights by taking out the Bokoblins, introducing another new feature: Disarming. Of course, this is as simple as blocking their strikes with your shield until they drop their weapon, but it's still neat. Then you defeat them with their own weapon and you can move on. However, upon reaching your sword and where Aryll is held along with two other girls, you're grabbed by the giant bird and tossed away again, by the command of a dark being within the Fortress.

 

I'm starting to recount the entire thing again, so let me try to be brief. You learn your new system of navigation quickly: Sailing. In a talking boat. The ocean is vast, the islands are many, and there's secrets aplenty. The graphical style is quite charming and beautiful. The characters are quirky, and the world feels very lively whenever there's people around. There's a lot of depth to this game, and it shows. Maybe too much, because sailing can be quite tedious on occasion, but I do feel they captured the feeling of sailing quite well despite this. The engine itself is quite the vast improvement upon the N64 engine, including a free camera mode which is quite handy. Everything feels smoother, apart from jumping mechanics, which is the only issue I take with post-N64 3D Zelda titles: The N64 games let you control your jump in midair, whereas in Wind Waker and onward, once you jump, you're stuck on that trajectory. However, this does not hurt the game, though some sections would be far less tedious if jumping were the same as in Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask.

 

Musical instruments return as well. Sort of. The titular Wind Waker is a conductor's baton, allowing you to "conduct" songs that have various effects, such as controlling the wind's direction, changing night to day and vice-versa, warping to another part of the ocean, or simply plot devices. These are actually somewhat tedious, but mostly just the Wind's Requiem; you'll often need to change the wind's direction, and for a three-note song, it seems to take forever to complete. This could maybe have been handled a little better, but similarly doesn't really affect the rest of the game.

 

Now, dungeons. Yeah, Wind Waker doesn't have a ton of them, seven at most depending on how you count them, and two of those are smaller "dungeons" anyway. But what dungeons it does have are pretty strong, clever dungeons. Dragon Roost Cavern, for example, is a spectacular dungeon, and it's only the first one in the game! In fact, all of the dungeons are quite strong, especially the final two temples, which boast collaborative play between Link and one of two helpers: Medli the Rito, Sage of Earth; and Makar the Korok, Sage of Wind. Okay, so the tediousness of the Wind Waker songs, this time the Command Melody, come back into play here, and did for a bit in Tower of the Gods, the third dungeon, but otherwise, the puzzles and collaboration were strong, and were yet another addition to the list of things Wind Waker did to shake things up a bit. Forsaken Fortress was more of a stealth segment the first time and a fortress-storming the second, but it was fun for both of those things. Ganon's Tower was more of your typical final area-type thing like in Ocarina of Time, complete with boss rematches, which are fun. So yeah, the dungeons, though few, were still pretty strong.

 

I really can't speak enough of how much I enjoy this game. There was just so much substance to it, be it secrets to find dotted on each island, trading sequences, fun minigames featuring Salvatore, neat sidequests, and even an auction minigame, that it's practically packed full-to-bursting even with the low dungeon count. The sailing could go from calm and peaceful to hazardous in the blink of an eye; Seahats are truly terrifying things if you're not prepared for them. Oh, and sharks known as Gyorgs appear, and just like their namesake, they're quite annoying. And then there are the Big Octos that appear. The sea is also rife with life, just as the islands are. I could go on and on about the music, but I'll sum it up by saying it's among the best in the series and lends very well to the atmosphere.

 

And the story. My God, the story. Oh, sure, eventually we find out Tetra was Zelda, and she gets kidnapped, but that's only part of it. See, Link was never out to save Zelda until near the end. No, he was in it to save his little sister. He just got roped into something more: The return of Ganondorf and the need to put him down once again. Then we learn of Hyrule's true fate: It was flooded by the goddesses in an attempt to subdue Ganondorf, and their chosen few were sent to the mountaintops to live out a new existence as islanders. Pretty depressing, especially for this game's bright visual style and often comical moments. Heck, the story only continues to be depressing. Turns out, Ganondorf's more of a tragic character than we realized, as he reveals just how harsh it was living in the Gerudo climate, and how he coveted the "life-bringing winds" of Hyrule. His mind was warped, no doubt boosted by his being an incarnation of a demon, which led him to attempt to conquer Hyrule repeatedly. And then there's the King, the strong and caring guardian who guides Link on his journey as the boat known as the King of Red Lions. Turns out he was always full of regrets, and when Ganondorf assembled the Triforce, the King intercepted it and wished for "hope" for Link and Zelda's future. And requesting Hyrule be washed away forever. Yes, the game went there. The game wiped out the very land of the Legend of Zelda. It was bold. It was daring. And it couldn't have ended any other way. And even more, after Ganondorf is turned to stone and the waters finally engulf Hyrule, the King remains submerged. Link, being pulled to the surface along with Zelda, attempts to reach out to him. The King extends a hand, then withdraws it, choosing to drown with Hyrule.

 

What a depressing ending. And yet, beautiful. Poetic. Sad. The game first surprised us with its cartoony style, then surprised us again with its deep, rich, sad story. How anyone can say Nintendo didn't strike gold with this formula is beyond me.

 

The game does have its annoyances, mostly little things, but otherwise some tedious moments, such as Triforce Charts and collecting the shards of the Triforce of Courage. Maybe it would have been better if these shards were hidden where the charts were instead, but it still feels like a small complaint next to the sheer scope of this game. There's really not a whole lot to criticize compared to how many things this game did right. Maybe it could have used a couple more dungeons, and a bit less tedium in places. The Wind Waker not quite perfect, but it still, in my eyes, remains a masterpiece.

 

But Floormasters will always be one of my most-hated foes.

[Nicholas Steel]

Wind Waker Floormasters are probably the most interesting and creepy enemies I've encountered in a Zelda game, I have no beef with them as I find them hilarious when I accidentally stumble in to their grip. My most hated of all things though is the Command Melody, arguably worse then elergy of emptyness.

Edited by franpa, 03 July 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[kurt91]

I got this game, and I'm not really sure what to think. Do I like it? Yes, I liked it a lot. Would I play it again? I tried, but really, no. Not unless some things got changed. I can't really say that this game had missed potential, it's just that the minor issues that I had with the game could have been fixed very easily, and eventually end up to where you don't keep playing.

 

First off, I have mixed feelings about the sailing. Why is that? Well, I hate any feeling of helplessness in a video game, really. If it's for plot reasons, or to encourage an alternate method of play, then it's fine. However, that's why I usually dislike water levels. Let's use Super Mario 64 as an example. That game has two major water levels: Jolly Roger Bay, and Dire Dire Docks. (Yes, I know there's the Secret Aquarium and Wet-Dry World, but they don't count. I'll explain why later.) Both areas have a dangerous aquatic enemy. Jolly Roger Bay has the giant eel, while Dire Dire Docks has the shark. However, in that game, Mario has absolutely no means of self-defense while underwater except for swimming away. That kind of problem bothers me. I really hate this, because the general idea to a water level is my favorite. I love the way light plays on water. Whenever I go to a swimming pool, I can spend hours staring at the way the light reflects off the rippling surface of the water onto the walls nearby. I love the appearance of the light shining off reflective metal and moving water, and Wet-Dry World and the Secret Aquarium became two of my favorite areas in Super Mario 64.

 

But I digress. I'm trying to discuss Wind Waker. Let's get back on topic. Forsaken Fortress was an enjoyable level, even though it revolved around stealth and helplessness. If you get caught in any fashion, you get thrown in jail. However, in that situation, it works. Everything is designed so that you have a means to escape and try again. The plot shows exactly why Link has to be careful to avoid being seen. When you're sailing, you don't have that. Yes, you have weapons designed for your boat. You can use a cannon and boomerang to fight back. However, have you ever tried shooting the cannon to hit a specific target, namely one that seems to shoot at you with somewhat decent accuracy and move around to avoid being hit? Yes, it moves slowly, but between it's moving and your own evading, shooting the cannon seems to be more a series of luck and guesswork. When you pull out the boomerang or cannon, the sail is put away and all of a sudden, you're a sitting duck for anything that's coming for you. You better be able to hit that enemy the first time, because if you miss, you're going to be knocked out of the boat into the water, where you have NO defenses whatsoever, and even if you do manage to get back in the boat, you're going to be scrambling to get some distance so you have time to try again. Enemy encounters while on the boat, for me, always boiled down to running away as fast as I could and praying that I didn't get hit.

 

This one's fairly easy to fix. All that would need to happen would be to make the sail work sort of like the Iron Boots in Ocarina of Time. You could turn them on or off, and use other things while you're moving. Add in a targeting cursor to show you where your cannon shots would land on the surface of the water, and sailing combat would be just fine for me. I wouldn't mind more of a high-speed cannon battle where I can take careful aim while sailing around to avoid enemy attacks. I'd like to be able to perform evasive maneuvers instantly if I throw the boomerang at a Seahat and miss, with it still coming at me.

 

See, with Nintendo remaking the game for the Wii-U, there's a lot of potential to fix the small problems, and they know that and have admitted to such. Lots of people complained about the Wind's Requiem and Command Melody. With the Wii-U's touch screen, you could easily set it up so you just swipe the screen in the direction you need the wind to blow. It would be nice if the Command Melody was replaced with a single-touch button to swap characters. The statues in the Tower of the Gods worked because the Command Melody felt like a sort of spell, and it would naturally need to be cast to control the statues. Working alongside Medli and Makar, not so much. I know LInk's supposed to be the "Silent Protagonist", but is it too much to imply him telling them "Hey, I need you over here to help me out, Go do this.". If Link was having to control them because he's had more combat experience and they're in danger from threatening monsters, I could understand him overriding them with the Command Melody, but last time I checked, those two had no way of protecting themselves anyways. You know what, why not use that touch screen to tap where you need them to go on a map, and let the AI walk them there. If they're controlling themselves, make them afraid of and running away from enemies, so you have a reason to use the Command Melody on them and it feels more like a spell. Heck, you want to make it more interesting? Have them slowly realize what they can do over time (meaning out of number of rooms explored, or having them seen you do it before) and make them use their natural skills by themselves. Make Medli figure out that she can paralyze Shadow ChuChus with her light, and make her run towards an available light source to help out, albeit with bad aim from inexperience. That would make the two most tedious dungeons really very awesome, because it would feel like you have somebody actually trying to help you out instead of an escort mission with a clunky and tedious control gimmick.

 

The Triforce hunt SUCKED, and is the main reason why I stopped playing this game for damn near two years before finally getting around to beating it. Wasn't the entire point of going through the Tower of the Gods supposed to be proving ourselves worthy? Damn it, it was enough to be allowed the use of the Master Sword! It was long, tedious, boring as hell, and felt as though the entire thing was only put in because they realized that the missing dungeons made the game really damned short. You know what, Nintendo? Take this chance and add in some dungeons to replace the missing ones? Even if you don't, then take out the Triforce hunt anyways! I would rather have a short game where everything seemed awesome rather than a long game where all of the fun suddenly stopped and I had to work my butt off to earn it back. This game had a New Game Plus option on it that gave new stuff to do and additional lore we could pick up on. Remove the hated Triforce hunt, and the shorter game along with the more steady fun-factor would give more of a reason to actually go through with it!

 

Here's the thing. It may sound as though from all my complaining that I thought it was a bad game. Far from it. In fact, I loved just about everything that I didn't mention here. Wind Waker's Link is probably my favorite incarnation so far, and I really think that we should have one more fun Major-Zelda experience with the character before we retire him for the next incarnation. (Major-Zelda meaning something like Ocarina through Twilight Princess, not something like Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks) I know that we've seen a lot from him for a fairly long time, but I think the character deserves one really good shining hurrah before retirement, not just half-baked gimmicky games like the DS ones, or guest appearances like Brawl.

[The Satellite]

I actually agree with most of everything you said, apart from the Super Mario 64 bit since I felt like that was the point of those levels, to navigate away from hazards. I don't think the current system is enough to detract from the experience, but I do think some changes could be better. I think the Wind's Requiem in the HD version doesn't play the song again after you conduct it; you just conduct it then change the wind. Don't know about Command Melody, but I very much agree that it should be a simple button press to change character rather than use Command Melody; it didn't make a ton of sense. I actually had a bit of fun with those levels and imagined what kind of conversations Link and Medli or Makar would have while they traversed the dungeon. I'm not so sure I agree with letting them have their own AI, as nice as that sounds.

 

As for sea warfare, it's a bit finicky, but not too much of a problem. If I was knocked out of the boat, I usually could just pop the sail and get distance as soon as I got back in, but I do agree that a reticle or something would have been nicer. And Triforce Hunt... either put the pieces where the charts are and eliminate Tingle, or do something different. Maybe not dungeons, or maybe a single chart leading to a secret dungeon for the whole Triforce of Courage, that could be neat. Those would really be the only things I think could be changed, otherwise I don't think the game really needs much tweaking. I still love it to death, and consider it my third-favorite Zelda. At least, I do as of this post...