18 replies to this topic

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Okay... I haven't made many threads that's discussing Quest Design... atleast none that's important... But this is a thing that's bothering me:
Do we NEED warps?
Whistle warps... teleportation pods... you name it... Do we really need them?
I mean, sure, they're a very nice way to cross the overworld with... But this way, you won't get to see all the great scenery the questmakers have made.
Let's take Twilight Princess as an example:
In Twilight Princess, Midna could use her powers to transport you all over the place. You could be standing in the south end of the map and push one button, then you'd be farthest to the north. Sure, this is nice and all. I mean, it gets you from A to B faster. But it deliberately LET'S you skip all the beautiful parts of Hyrule Field! I can't help to think "Wouldn't it be awesome NOT to have this ability? To be able to travel through all oh Hyrule Field, without even thinking about a fast travel thing?"
When the option is there, I can't help to use it... I don't know why, but it's like I want to finish the game as fast as possible... I should be enjoying it, shouldn't I?

Now, we have games that are a little too big NOT to have a fast travel option. Like TES: Oblivion. Oblivion is HUUGE. GIGNORMOUS.
It's great to have that fast travel option, really... but then again, I can't help to think that it would be awesome if you HAD to walk through the lands of Cyrodiil, on foot or with horse. It gives me an epic feeling, when I'm walking through a wonderful medieval land like Cyrodiil. It sorta reminds me of Lord of The Rings, except fot the fact that I'm walking alone... and not with 4875986729087 fellowship members behind me.

I personally can't wait to travel through my own vision of what Hyrule looks like. I'm spending ALLOT of time making it look great and I certainly wouldn't want players to skip those screens, that I've used 30 minutes, or more, on.
Now, humans like to get from A to B fast. That shows not only in games, but in the real world too. Look at us, we've got cars, bikes, planes and so on... We skip all the great scenery that's just outside our front door... And why? We're not in a hurry... I mean, most humans lives in 70 years, or more. That should give you plenty of time to walk around, right?
But still, people can't help to think that walking around in a game, would become a chore. And I agree, to a certain extent.
Let's look at Grand Theft Auto:
I would NOT want to WALK through the entire city, just to kill a guy and walk back, when there's options like "steal a random car and kill it's driver, then drive tot he target and kill him too!"
It's faster, and more action filled...
But you're still seeing the enviorment. You're not using a tuba to play a warp song, that warps you to the other side of the city.

I'm wondering, really, if we NEED warps in our quests. Sure, they're nice and all... But you really don't get the same feeling you get, as when you're walking through the field instead. But since you have the option to choose, you choose the easiest and fastest one.

What's your opinion on this?
Please discuss :3

[Plissken]

I feel LI did it right. Make them go through it at least once and then let them choose, use the warps, or go through it again. But, the way my quest's OW is set up, warps don't really matter anyway so I don't really care...

[Joe123]

I have surpassed the need for whistle warps.



Then again though, I'm using Epona, so it'll be faster to get around.
I think having warps would ruin the experience with Epona a little.

[Russ]

Either use warps, or use Epona. Warps are nice for big overworlds, so it doesn't take as long. But if you use a horse, it goes fast enough that you can enjoy it without it taking too long.

[Feenicks]

I'm a friend to warps. In my opinion, you should only be forced to walk through through a long overworld area once or twice - after that, you should only go in the area to search for secrets and such, or (if you are making a story-based quest) if the area has changed substantially. And areas you have to travel through lots of times should be crossroad-type areas, not long linear areas.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Hmm... lots of good opinions here...
Personally, I like how OoT did SOME of the warps... like the Lost Woods/Goron City warps... Those where nice..Though, I personally would have made a cave that you'd have to walk through... it would be a shortcut, yet still you'd have to walk a little...
I think I might use something like this in my quest... But I don't really love the whistle warps. Though, they where convenient.

[Russ]

Personally, I like how OoT did SOME of the warps... like the Lost Woods/Goron City warps...

What about the Lost Woods/Lake Hylia warp?

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Yeah... I was kinda referring to that one too... infact, all warps like that...

[Russ]

I think there shouldn't be warps. That's what you have a beautiful field and a horse for. If the creator take the time to make a beautiful overworld, why skip around it with warps?

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Exactly! It feels much more "epic" to walk/ride around a beautiful place, slashing at bushes.
But people seem to have different opinions on this... I'm a little worried about what I personally should do.

[Russ]

Don't use warps. If you are using Epona, don't use warps. But if you aren't using Epona, then put a few in.

[Captain Magenta]

If you are capable of scripting some method of transportation such as riding a horse (Epona) or making the Pegasus Boots available and functional, then I would say to probably avoid using warping at all for expedited overworld travel, but if you choose to or do not have an alternative means of quick transportation available, then maybe consider somehow making the ability to warp something that you do not gain access to until late in the quest, possibly even toward the end, to allow for the player to scour the overworld and dungeons for missed items after completing the majority of the quest but without compromising the exploration element of the quest too early.

Since often "collectibles" that are necessary for quest progress such as shards of the Triforce, magical crystals, shards of a mystical key, or whatever (Insert collectible quest plot item here) are necessary for quest progression are not able to be wielded by the player or interacted with in any way after they are collected, you could use the Triforce fragments as specialized items that would allow access to warps after being retrieved from hidden and difficult dungeons much as they were in Lost Isle, and then create dummy items that would be used to represent the quest plot collectibles though you might have to do without the fanfare associated with their collection, or create the victory sequence either though clever layering and screen manipulation or scripting it out. I'd imagine you could also script the need to collect all the plot items to sidestep the snag of being unable to use the Triforce being incomplete as a bar to entering the final dungeon. If that becomes a plot device in your quest and the Triforce is completed significantly earlier than the entry to the last dungeon should occur then that could cause problems otherwise for the player.....

[Beefster]

If I want to see the scenery, I will take the long way to get there. I like to rush through a game, mostly I don't like to travel on foot. WARPS ARE A MUST IMO, at least in large overworlds.

[LostInHyru1e]

I like the warps in games a lot, and I find them very necessary.

A lot of times, I traverse TP's Hyrule Field just for the scenery. When I'm in the mood for it, I love it, and I go and see it. But I like to have the option to skip it.

[KaBoom]

I really liked the way you brought up OoT.

I think that's exactly what you should do. Don't make warps in the sense that, "I'm in this town, let me go ahead and warp to that town." Don't let the player choose.

Instead, make a few predetermined "shortcuts" like OoT. Like a cave in a forest in the south that leaves you in a town to the east. Make it so that there are several of these in your quest, so that the player will have to walk some, and there won't always be the option of directly going to a location.

And maayyybe, you should make them optional too.... as in, the player has to FIND the shortcuts first!! (also like in OoT) It could be a form of rewarding those who explore.