53 replies to this topic

[Koh]

I had a huge argument for this, but that's a debate thing, soo...
I am the same as most others here; there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And since you decided to keep it in, you have a big from me! Fight the machine!

EDIT: WHOO! 2,500th post =D!

[Freedom]

I think it's okay to have it. Just don't... well... preach. For comparison, Freedom has put in NPCs who insulted "liberals" in his quests before, and I found it quite annoying. It's okay if a game or quest reflects the maker's views somewhat, but blatantly preaching them is annoying no matter what your views are.

My vote is to have it in the quest, but don't draw a huge amount of attention to the fact. If you think it's perfectly natural, then you have the option to present it as normal.
Excuse me, but having a Christian background is not synonymous with opposing homosexuality. To imply that it is the same would be to ignore the fact that the Christian religious community is extremely divided on the subject.

Also, opposing homosexuality does not necessarily mean suppressing all attention to and discussion of the topic. In other words, you don't have to resent alternative perspectives purely for the fact that they exist.

For instance, let's hypothetically say that you oppose divorce. Is that any reason to insist that divorced couples never be shown in video games or on TV? Seems a bit unreasonable to me, and so does the "hide your gays" argument.

You found it annoying because... well... you are a flaming liberal, just as someone who disagrees with homosexuality will disagree with having it shoved in their face in a zelda quest.
Not so difficult to understand is it?

[Radien]

Freedom:
Yeah, I figured you'd come out to post when it came to opinions about homosexuality.

You found it annoying because... well... you are a flaming liberal, just as someone who disagrees with homosexuality will disagree with having it shoved in their face in a zelda quest.
Not so difficult to understand is it?

Except that I told Lynker NOT to preach his opinions, rather than egging him on just because I happen to agree with some of the things he's conveying. This is called consistency. In video games, books, or conversations, I get annoyed whenever someone rudely shoves their ideas in my face, regardless of whether I agree with them. In other words, I object to to the way you express your opinion faaaaar more than what that opinion actually is.

I get the feeling that "flaming liberal" is what you call anyone who doesn't agree with you -- in fact, name-calling was exactly what you did in Swansong that I found annoying. Since you've dismissed me and most of the people on this site long ago, I see no reason to talk about it further. Enjoy your belief system.

[trudatman]

actually, it is tough for a Green-voting, peace-loving, fag-friending "liberal" (doesn't read as "evil" to most of us) to understand why lesbian characters in a game would "shoving" anything in any type of face. hating and hating hate are different. I suspect you don't see the world at all similarly, but I cannot understand a view so clouded by general bias. the words you chose for that post very much allow a clear view of your intolerance and it isn't cute. I wonder how your world views were formed. it shows my bias when I suggest they were likely formed through "tradition" and indoctrination by supposed authorities. I cannot imagine a conscious growth into a core value system based in social conservatism and the disdain inherent within such a stance. was there a trauma that encouraged a position so seemingly unjustifiable? also, how does a liberal flame? now that the original point of this thread has been fulfilled, let's bring this exercise into the debate forum and have some fun fine-tuning our beliefs through "mature discussion."

edited to point out that this was a reply to Freedom To Hate that is very much in a similar key as Radien's post between this one and the one in question..

Edited by trudatman, 18 May 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Radien]

"liberal" (doesn't read as "evil" to most of us)

Yes, that's a point that needs to be made. People who think "liberal" is a swear word and an insult are lacking understanding of what the word means. It's not the equivalent calling someone "poopyhead" (and yet I often hear people say "liberal" in the same tone of voice, their words oozing with vitriol).

Beyond that, trudatman, I would prefer if this topic doesn't get moved the the Debate Forum, seeing as it's supposed to be about a ZC quest.

[symbiote01]

Before anyone goes on, let me just make this very clear:

If you do not like the idea of homosexuality, that is fine. Your choice. But there is no need to inform us, or anyone else about it. Keep it to yourself.

Remember, being openly anti-homosexual could very well be just as bad as being openly racist. We don't need to hear about it, and if you really feel that way, so be it... but don't run around telling everybody. It causes nothing but problems, and we do not need a big flamewar caused by someone who just felt they had to spurt out their own personal hatred on what is a very touchy subject.

I find this statement kinda funny, because this is the Don't Ask/Don't Tell argument in a nutshell.
Someone asked if it was a good idea to put gay NPCs in their quest. Is that person expecting an answer, or simply validation? To attack a person simply because their opinion doesn't match yours is bigoted. Period.
If you are gay, that's fine- just don't tell me about it, because I don't want to know. I won't ask, you don't tell.
If you ask if it is okay to be gay, I will give you my answer- because you asked for it. You don't ask, I won't tell.
Remember, being openly anti-'my beliefs' could very well be just as bad as being openly racist...

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I find this statement kinda funny, because this is the Don't Ask/Don't Tell argument in a nutshell.
Someone asked if it was a good idea to put gay NPCs in their quest. Is that person expecting an answer, or simply validation? To attack a person simply because their opinion doesn't match yours is bigoted. Period.
If you are gay, that's fine- just don't tell me about it, because I don't want to know. I won't ask, you don't tell.
If you ask if it is okay to be gay, I will give you my answer- because you asked for it. You don't ask, I won't tell.
Remember, being openly anti-'my beliefs' could very well be just as bad as being openly racist...

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

Being gay, is not necessarily a choice. It's who you are. Being anti-gay however, is a choice. Argue that all you want, but that's a fact, there's no getting around it.

If you're colored, for example, you cannot simply choose not to let people know. It's who you are period, and if people don't like you for it, that's their choice, but there is NO need to tell anyone about those kinds of feelings. Hatred spawns nothing but more hatred, and if it's something we don't need here, it's a flame war, especially not one that in which people are attacking others for who they are, and not for the opinions they chose to have.

It's as simple as this: we have a set of rules here at this website, and you will follow them regardless if you're anti-homosexual, racist, nazi or Santa. It doesn't matter, you simply will not attack other people, and doing so will bring consequences. Period.

That said, I am not saying you attacked anyone, I am simply explaining why I said what I said, which was only to prevent anyone from being hurt by people who couldn't keep their mouth shut. Remember, you don't have to have "come out of the closet" in order to be hurt by someone spurting out their hatred for the very idea of being attracted to the same sex.

[Moosh]

Being gay, is not necessarily a choice. It's who you are. Being anti-gay however, is a choice. Argue that all you want, but that's a fact, there's no getting around it.

I suppose this is most likely true, but I don't believe it's ever been proven. I mean what with all the people claiming to have changed their sexuality or been "cured" it's kinda hard to prove, because it may be that for some people at least, it is a choice.

It's as simple as this: we have a set of rules here at this website, and you will follow them regardless if you're anti-homosexual, racist, nazi or [b[Santa[/b]. It doesn't matter, you simply will not attack other people, and doing so will bring consequences. Period.

Because Santa is extremely intolerant. I assume you meant Satanist?

Anyways, I don't even know why we're still discussing this...the original question has pretty much been answered and now it's just degenerating into talk about liberals and other things...

Edited by Pokemonmaster64, 18 May 2011 - 07:04 PM.

[The Satellite]

Yeah, this thread's degenerated well past the original point of the topic. Lynker made his decision already; everything past that that was nothing but a big thread derailing. However, nothing's stopping anyone from wanting to continue such a discussion/debate in the debate room, should someone wish to attempt to do so.