48 replies to this topic

[sigtau]

I'm going to ignore the lies posted by Peteo. And that's not flaming either, he was judging the community as a whole, so yeah.

Anyway, I personally believe that ZC is not dead, it's just a growing program that happens to be growing at the speed of falling molasses. Just because that "Build Project" button on DarkNation or _L_'s computer isn't being hit when any of you would like it to doesn't necessarily constitute that the entire idea is dead as it is.

[Dawnlight]

:Going Back on Topic and Avoiding this Chaotic 3 Ring Circus:

http://www.zshare.ne...8099076e7e4d9c/

Here's my Quest: Shadows of Dawn (a demo). I could use some more comments on how to make this quest better.

Edited by Dawnlight, 04 December 2008 - 09:40 PM.

[Christian]

Peteo wasnt blasfiming the developers or zelda classic. He was just saying that there isnt enough documentation or a really good well scripting tutorial on how to use these features. Not even the zc wiki explains how to step by step. Zelda classic will grow and will probably one day become: ALTTP classic.

[ShadowTiger]

Yes, but there are far, far, far, FAR, FAR, FAR better ways to go about saying it than that.

It's the difference between us agreeing wholeheartedly with him and resisting the urge to push him out of the way of sniper fire.

Either way, things are getting done as they arrive. Can't fix a problem we don't know about, eh? But generalizing isn't stating a problem. It's like saying "It doesn't work. Fix it." Yeah, if you've ever done tech support, you'd be banging your head against the keyboard after a statement like that.

[Takuya]

Like it or not but I'm not the only one who has got fed up with the empty promises and develoepr's mistakes. There's no stable ZC 2.5 in sight, there hasn't been a new full stable ZC release in many many years... I'm sure the more patient people will get fed up as well eventually.

Firstly, it's "developer" not develoepr. See Bengal's post about keyboard arrangements.

Secondly, Us developers, we are only human. We progress toward a goal, and MANY of the current ZC releases ARE stable. We came up with a new website, moved to a versioning repository, and fix bugs every SINGLE day. If that's a dying platform then I must be committed in all the wrong areas.

As Teilyr said, look how long 1.92 was in development for. Just because you have moved on does not mean the rest of us are impatient. Also, look at ANY real world software base. It usually takes a year, or two, or THREE, or MORE to come out with a new STABLE product. So don't judge us because we do not work as quickly and as god-like as you wish.

[Moonbread]

http://www.giantitp....s/oots0205.html

Look at the last few strips. I'd like to put emphasis on free. If you don't like the speed at which things are getting done, do them yourself, Peteo.
...
Anyway, Island of Dreams, and the joint quest Beta Link and I are working on are/will be full of 2.5 goodness :O

[Christian]

People need to stop mentioning and comparing 2.5 quests to one another. ALL 2.5 quest are full of goodness and greatness and that goes for some 2.10 quests. And this topic should be resolved already. I think peteo has heard enough. If you want 2.5 quest search the CQD and QPF forums.

[Peteo]

Hey, ban my ass if the truth hurts so much. But I know you guys aren't that childish, so yeah...


Ahem, I know I am a guy who opens his mouth before thinking and then oftentimes regretting it later.

I have been rude, yes, but this time I don't regret anything I've said. I mean 100% what I've said in this topic, and in my opinion I haven't really flamed anyone. I've just expressed my endless frustration towards ZC and for the millionth time I have been trying to put some sense into people's head... because I don't want any of you to go through what I've gone through... putting so much effort and sleepless nights into ZC and getting nothing in return, just empty promises and mockery from fellow ZC members who don't take what I say seriously.

But you know what, I really don't care whether you waste your time on supporting a dead thing or not anymore, it really doesn't affect my life at all. What affects my life and makes me sad however is to see ZC in such a horrible state. yeah I have been pissing people off with my comments but how can any of you deny what me and Freedom have been saying for over 2 years now? I know my raging here doesn't seem rational and oftentimes I think I'm going too far... but somehow I guess I hope that my raging would result in a miracle and just like that there would be a stable ZC and some documentation. Stupid, huh? yeah, I know...

Maybe you udnerstand me better now that I put it that way. And even if you don't, oh well. But even though my way to bring this issue up is a wrong one, I hope this issue won't be forgotten now that you probably lock this topic and delete all my posts I make about ZC in the future. Because believe it or not, I loved ZC and everything I do or say I do it with having the best interest of ZC in my mind. I wish Freedom was still around because he handled things better than I do, when I get frustrated, I end up typing angry posts.

---

I once again apologize for hurting some people's feelings, Nathaniel, but I hope you understand me... (It's probably no secret anymore that you're the only staff member I respect here and I hate the fact that I've let you down once again.)

[ShadowTiger]

Anger isn't the answer. It's never the answer. It only provokes more rage. This will always be the case. If you're looking for understanding, it's more likely that people will ... "understand" ... that your rage is overpowering you.


(EDIT: OMG. )

because I don't want any of you to go through what I've gone through... putting so much effort and sleepless nights into ZC and getting nothing in return, just empty promises and mockery from fellow ZC members who don't take what I say seriously.

Devs are thinking the same thing. They get nothing out of this but whiny reminders of their own absentminded human failures, so to speak. But they keep going. Why don't you?

If you still care, why are you still posting by being so aggro, instead of helping to fix it? If you think bug testing will never end, then why continue to make these kinds of posts!?

It's like that guy on the train that constantly complains about being thirsty to everyone, and then after he gets a drink, he complains that he was thirsty and never stops!


So either start testing and don't STOP testing, or just GTFO already. We've both heard the same things from each other, and it's just time to stop already! You know we love you man, but don't make us put you on post preview! Nobody would want that.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Hey, ban my ass if the truth hurts so much. But I know you guys aren't that childish, so yeah...
Ahem, I know I am a guy who opens his mouth before thinking and then oftentimes regretting it later.

I have been rude, yes, but this time I don't regret anything I've said. I mean 100% what I've said in this topic, and in my opinion I haven't really flamed anyone. I've just expressed my endless frustration towards ZC and for the millionth time I have been trying to put some sense into people's head... because I don't want any of you to go through what I've gone through... putting so much effort and sleepless nights into ZC and getting nothing in return, just empty promises and mockery from fellow ZC members who don't take what I say seriously.

But you know what, I really don't care whether you waste your time on supporting a dead thing or not anymore, it really doesn't affect my life at all. What affects my life and makes me sad however is to see ZC in such a horrible state. yeah I have been pissing people off with my comments but how can any of you deny what me and Freedom have been saying for over 2 years now? I know my raging here doesn't seem rational and oftentimes I think I'm going too far... but somehow I guess I hope that my raging would result in a miracle and just like that there would be a stable ZC and some documentation. Stupid, huh? yeah, I know...

Maybe you udnerstand me better now that I put it that way. And even if you don't, oh well. But even though my way to bring this issue up is a wrong one, I hope this issue won't be forgotten now that you probably lock this topic and delete all my posts I make about ZC in the future. Because believe it or not, I loved ZC and everything I do or say I do it with having the best interest of ZC in my mind. I wish Freedom was still around because he handled things better than I do, when I get frustrated, I end up typing angry posts.

---

I once again apologize for hurting some people's feelings, Nathaniel, but I hope you understand me... (It's probably no secret anymore that you're the only staff member I respect here and I hate the fact that I've let you down once again.)

Okay Peteo... just to make what I said earlier completly understandable:
In my apartment, I've got a great cabinet.
Yep, a cabinet. My cabinet can store whatever I want, as long as it fits inside. I can store cups, plates, clothes, candy, remote controls (?!) and whatnot... though, MY exact cabinet is "dead". No one keeps working on it, trying to make it better than it already is. It's simply... dead, development wise. Sure, there is other and newer cabinets I could buy, but I love MY cabinet so much, that I don't care if it can't make my bed or wash the dishes. It works great as it is, and it has been since the 40's... I'm not going to "upgrade" it... Instead, I'm gonna keep it with me forever. Though, it's pretty big, and if I moved to a smaller apartment, I'm not sure if it would fit.... BUT that's not the point here... the point is that the cabinet is pretty much dead... but I can still get much use out of it...

The same goes for ZC... ZC is ZC, and ZC can be used perfectly well in the state it is in now. If the developers WANT to add more features, sure, be my guest... but when and if it dies, it CAN still be used.

Now, as opposed to some of the other people in this thread, I'm not actually offended by what you've said... sure, as people have pointed out, it may not be the most tactful way of saying it... but not EVERYONE is good at saying things with tact... (/me runs)
No, I'm just sad that you can't understand something simple as this... Cause it's not hard, is it?

Sure, I guess many of us would LIKE to say something about the games you've made with ZC... I mean, personally, I don't like any of them too much... I enjoyed LI, but that was mostly because I was a blind n00b that followed the pack of over-hyped people...
Now I was going to say "But I WON'T say anything about your quest...", but that's a little late now...
Well, at least I won't say anything MORE of them.

But I've got one more thing though:
If ANYONE is wasting ANY time, it is both you and I, and the rest of the people in this thread, that has argued with Peteo's opinions... it IS his own opinions, and it WILL stay that way, I guess.
Arguing about it won't help anyone of us... it will just end up making Peteo feel unwanted, and it'll make the rest of us chat about this in chat, constantly getting more furious about it than neccesarry.

Aaand that became a little longer than expected... oh well...

[ShadowTiger]

Y'know what sucks? Some builds have a really, really nasty bug. 899 has a bug where enemies drop the master sword and other critical quest items like normal every day drops. A pretty big bug, sure!

Other builds don't have that, and might only have a bug where instead of walking under the overhead combo, it washes your car for you on a Thursday. Those bugs, I can live with.



As long as the Devs are happy and content to keep working on ZC, these bugs will eventually get fixed, and we're that much closer to a stable release.

My primary concern with posts like those are that they discourage ZC's developers from working, and THAT will kill ZC.

I'm sure you see the irony.

[Joe123]

_L_'s fixed that already though, so soon we won't have to worry about it.

[Majora]

There are two demos (with a third (and final) one on the way) of my quest floating around. The first one sucks horribly, the second not so much.

Topic with info
Quest File

[Teilyr]

I don't want any of you to go through what I've gone through... putting so much effort and sleepless nights into ZC and getting nothing in return, just empty promises and mockery from fellow ZC members who don't take what I say seriously.

This is a joyless profession. You have to have true passion for what you do, as it truly reaps no rewards. No money, no real fame, just the spotlight on a small fleck of the internet, until someone comes along and makes something better than your best effort, and you're forgotten thanks to the new shiny thing that people are playing with.

Damn. I have issues.

But somehow I guess I hope that my raging would result in a miracle and just like that there would be a stable ZC and some documentation. Stupid, huh? yeah, I know...

Why people fuss so much about needing a stable version is beyond me. I'm sure you used 1.92 before it came out. As I'd hoped you'd of learned by now, stable ZC comes with patience. It doesn't stop users from working with alphas. Heck, this is why ZQuest is released with alphas, I'd imagine. If the developers didn't want us using ZQuest 2.5, they'd just include screenshots of the new things they've done.

As for documentation.. Hm. Oh, look what I found. http://www.shardstor...eamhosters.com/ That's the change log, as I'm sure you know. Documentation acquired. You may smile now.

I hope this issue won't be forgotten now that you probably lock this topic and delete all my posts I make about ZC in the future.

On the contrary, from my vantage point. While I do disagree with 95% of the things you say, I respect your right to make yourself look like an ass and have the whole community jump on you in some show of support for the program.

That's better than locking a topic, any day. You say something foolish and 20349 people pounce on the topic like some sort of nerdy dogpile.

I once again apologize for hurting some people's feelings, Nathaniel, but I hope you understand me... (It's probably no secret anymore that you're the only staff member I respect here and I hate the fact that I've let you down once again.)

You're breaking my heart, Pete. I thought we were cuddle buddies. See if I ever let you use my gym bag again..

[Nathaniel]

I have read very little in this topic, but I just want to say a little bit to you Peteo, and to others about his comments, as I have heard all of this talk come around the bend several times in the past too.

As for Peteo, I can certainly understand how he feels. He put a lot of effort into something that he doesn't have complete control over. Peteo definitely makes work of high caliber and epic proportions, but developing is also very hard work and a long commitment.

We can pick on Peteo or the developers for a little of this and a little of that, but when it comes down to it, it helps to have some support of both the development team and the quest builders. Without the developers there is no ZC, and without the quest builders there are no quests. While no individual is obligated to be supportive of either, a little appreciation by some goes a long way. To discourage others from supporting something, no matter how dire it seems to anybody, is counterproductive to any chance of hope in the future.

Peteo, I completely understand you being frustrated and disgruntled about ZC and its future, and nobody should try to talk you out of feeling that way (since you are pretty set on how you feel). However, if people want to be optimistic, I say let them be optimistic. Trying to drag other people down like you are, while in itself is not against our rules, AGN's rules (I assume), and hopefully not other people's rules, it still doesn't make it right.

I appreciate that you respect me, and I certainly respect you, but please: If you can't have any hope yourself, what is wrong with others having it? If it bothers you, then you are best off looking away at that talk that is bothering you and therefore tempts you to express your disgruntledness. People don't like getting bummed out about something they at the least have a good time with. They want to have a good time with what they already have a good time with.