142 replies to this topic

[ywkls]

EP. 8 reaction w/spoilers

 

-Leia finally doing some Force stuff

-Not killing off Leia

-Luke tossing away the lightsaber! (ROFL wonderful)

-Amazing Snoke confrontation!

-Kylo not turning to the Light (turning would have been a no)

Agreed.

Though...

 

Spoiler

Did he not turn away from the Dark, just a tad?

 

 

Spoiler

-Restoring Luke's faith in the Jedi (Yes, just what I wanted!)

-Touching on some more Force mythos

-Seeing ghost Yoda!

Double agreed.

Also...

Spoiler

"Failure, the greatest teacher is."

I think more than anything else; this one is trying to get fans out of the "must focus on Skywalker family" mindset.

 

Spoiler

-Rey's parents not being important figures (Yes, just what I wanted!)

Spoiler

Unless, of course... that was a lie to get her to cooperate...

 

 

Spoiler

Now I'm just left wondering what Snoke's background was.

I suspect you'll have to wait for the books to answer that.

[Cukeman]

reply to ywkls w/spoilers

I do sort of wonder if Kylo killing Snoke was part of Snoke's "Fulfill your destiny" intent, since part of Sith lore is the apprentice becoming more powerful than the master, then killing the master to take his place. Maybe he did sense the lightsaber at his side turning?

I mean usually he's berating Kylo's abilities, but then he did say he was proud of Kylo.

On second thought though, he did want Rey killed, and I bet he was just using Kylo and Rey to get to Luke at this point. Maybe later he would have been ready for Kylo to replace him, but I don't think it would have been anytime soon.

Just a thought I had.
I did really like how powerful Snoke was.
 

Did he not turn away from the Dark, just a tad?

Only in the hesitation to kill his mum, I'd say. IMO he made up for that slip by continuing to hunt down the rebels, trying to overkill Luke, and getting so angry at the site of his father's ship that he wanted to shoot it down (with Rey inside-dunno if he knew she was in the Falcon though).

Still, he has a choice ahead of him, toughen up or find another line of work.

My main thought was that turning right after killing Han would just seem way too easy.
Besides we didn't want to repeat the Luke/Emperor/Vader confrontation beat for beat.
 

"Failure, the greatest teacher is."

Yes. Great line.
 

I think more than anything else; this one is trying to get fans out of the "must focus on Skywalker family" mindset.

Makes sense.
 

Unless, of course... that was a lie [insert reason here]

Possible.
Although I believe her emotional reaction is meant to show us it's genuine.

I guess the "codemaster" was the reverse parallel for Han, someone who IS only in it for the money.

Also, Luke messing with Rey "Do you feel something?" XD

Edited by Cukeman, 18 December 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[Cukeman]

more spoiler talk

I thought I may as well discuss some possible minor flaws.
Nothing here that detracted from my enjoyment of the film though.

I don't think the Poe facing the First Order ship alone was believable- that he could do so much damage before they fired a shot or released a single tie fighter (esp. since the Empire released tie fighters instantly when coming out of light speed). It made the First Order feel less capable and less threatening. I didn't feel that way long because of the ensuing crushing attacks on the Rebels, but grew displeased with General Hux being kind of a joke at the end when Kylo flings him aside. Not because Sith ruling their officers through fear and punishment is a problem, but because I felt his characterization in Force Awakens was that he was nasty but too haughty so he had blind spots. Here he felt like more of a sniveling buffoon. So I was disapointed with where that character came to at the end. Also I wanted more to the fight scene between Finn and Phasma, that was over extremely quick.

I was ready for Finn to die for the cause, and felt emotionally sideswiped when his ship was sideswiped and his life was saved. But then I realized this was Luke's fight, and Finn wasn't ready yet, and part of his character is rushing in unprepared trying to be the hero, and he needs to learn that. So ultimately I don't think of this as a flaw, just something that made me hesitate.

I am surprisingly seeing a lot of hate and displeasure about this movie online and I don't get that at all. I thought it was fantastic.

I didn't really care for Leia's temporary replacement, but then I did like her coming around on Poe. I was very unsurprised by her kamikaze attack though, I knew it was coming. I do find it also hard to swallow that the First Order didn't see that coming, and were so helpless against it. I mean, all the rebellion really needs is a couple big ships with a single pilot to wipe out the enemies' motherships? That seems too easy. Especially when you think how many rebels died taking down a few Star Destroyers in Return of the Jedi. Still this is a nitpick because it's not a focus. The focus is on this action buying time for our heroes.

 

The communication technology in Star Wars continues to be up in the air. Sometimes people can talk instantly to each other across the galaxy while at light speed, other times they have to desperately get there in person in the nick of time to deliver a message. There's just no consistency.

 

Also, I could have done without the frog nuns, they felt out of place and didn't add anything worth keeping. It's supposed to be a deserted island except for the sea creatures who come ashore and the birds that nest in the cliffs.

 

But again, these are all just minor nitpicks. The focus here was on Luke, Kylo, Rey and Snoke and to a lesser extent Leia, and I thought all of that played out brilliantly. It was fantastic!

[Yloh]

Though "The Last Jedi" was interesting. Here are my thoughts.

 

Spoiler

 

Likes

 

They didn't just kill off Leah and how she used to force to save herself.

 

Luke tossing Rey's lightsaber caught me by surprise.

 

Kylo Ren aka (Darth Temper Tantrum) not turning to the light, after teaming up with Rey to defeat Snoke's guards. On that topic, it was great that Snoke's personal guards actually put up a fight.  

 

That salt planet with the red crystals at the end was pretty to look at. 

 

When Admiral Amilyn Holdo flew her ship at light speed through The Supremacy.

 

DJ was just toying with Finn and Rose the whole time.

 

The battle between Luke and Kylo Ren at the end. 

 

Rey's parents being nobodies. Hopefully this stays true.

 

The conflict between Poe and Admiral Amilyn Holdo. 

 

Yoda telling Luke to move on.

 

Neutral

 

The potential love triangle between Rey, Rose, and Finn.

 

Porgs. Incredibly cute, but merchandise.

 

Not sure how I feel about the whole casino part.

 

While General Hux gives full respect to Snoke, he seems to disrespect Kylo Ren. He would of never treated Darth Vader the way he treated Kylo Ren.  

 

Dislikes

 

While not a huge deal, since many other stories do this, is bothers me how Rey has such a powerful grasp of the force without any formal training. 

 

How easily Snoke got caught off guard. 

 

Captain Phasma. Wasted potential.

 

 

That is what I am able to think of at this moment.

 

As a whole, I had more likes than dislikes, so this was a good film. 

[Nicholas Steel]

The number #1 issue I had with the movie was this, and I don't think I need to spoiler it (but I will anyways):

Spoiler

Where are the forcefields? Ships have it in other episodes (General Akbar: It's a trap! Luke hasn't disabled the forcefield yet!)!

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 19 December 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Cukeman]

reply to Nicholas Steel

What do you mean? Force fields for what person, or what ship?

 

Holdo's ship had a force field (well, shields anyway, is there a difference?)

 

Edited by Cukeman, 19 December 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[NoeL]

My thoughts

It's interesting to see such a mixed reaction from fans. I think a significant number of people are disappointed because they loved The Force Awakens and this movie throws out a lot of the plot seeds from that movie (IMO for the better - TFA was awful). Personally I thought the movie was fantastic, despite being overly long and having several INCREDIBLY dumb moments (another reason I think people are hating on it). For example:

 

- The star destroyers do nothing. At all. They just sit there and look pretty.

- The slow-ass bombers. You're in space - just fire the bombs.

- The slow-ass chase. You can track their ship - just jump away then jump back to where you're in range.

- Why did the First Order only send three TIE fighters to take out the entire resistance fleet? They had them in range, they knew the smaller ships could outrun them, yet they did next to nothing.

- Rey's miraculous lightsaber proficiency. All of a sudden she's good now? With no training at all? What?

- If sending a chunk of metal into something at light-speed is that devastating, 1) why aren't they using light-speed munitions? And 2) why weren't the First Order prepared for a kamikaze, given the situation?

 

Then there's the "dumb" moments that (maybe) weren't actually dumb, just too subtle for many people to pick up on:

 

- "Snoke is a master of the force but didn't notice the lightsaber moving right next to him!?"

He did notice. His choice of words wasn't just for irony. The way of the Sith is to complete their conversion to the dark side by striking down their master, and he knew that Kylo killing him would cement him in the dark side. Kylo was completing his training.

 

- "Why didn't Holdo just tell Poe her plan in the first place and avoid the whole casino/mutiny situation!?"

The First Order were tracking them through hyperspace - an apparent impossibility. A smart commander would suspect a mole in the ranks and keep their cards as close to their chest as possible.

 

- "Finn and Rose achieve NOTHING! Their whole expedition could be cut from the movie and nothing would change!"

A big theme in the movie is learning through failure, and Poe's main character arc was learning that hot-shot risky plays don't always work out (having Finn and Rose go to a casino of all places is symbolic of this theme). It was necessary for Poe to become a team player. In terms of plot, it's only through DJ's deception that the First Order become aware of Holdo's plan to flee to the old rebel base. So it wasn't entirely irrelevant sidequesting.

 

 

 

Also, Rey is looking pretty chubby on Luke's island. XD

Edited by NoeL, 19 December 2017 - 07:35 PM.

[ywkls]

Re: My thoughts

 

- Rey's miraculous lightsaber proficiency. All of a sudden she's good now? With no training at all? What?

- If sending a chunk of metal into something at light-speed is that devastating, 1) why aren't they using light-speed munitions? And 2) why weren't the First Order prepared for a kamikaze, given the situation?

Counterpoint

Except, whenever we first see her; she's already good enough with that pole to fend off several people at once.

Finn starts to help her; but she wins without assistance.

Later, on Luke's island; she shows off that same skill and then translates that into using the lightsaber.

On the issue of lightspeed munitions; two obvious objections come up.

First, a vessel of some size is needed to get to lightspeed.

Second, presumably it would also be harder for a smaller ship to pull off that sort of thing than a larger one.

Now, the Resistance doesn't have a lot of ships to spare.

In most cases; they wouldn't want to sacrifice the crew of a whole vessel.

Plus, they were trying to distract the First Order so that the transports could escape.

It was only after it became clear that the transports would all be destroyed that action was taken.

[Nicholas Steel]

reply to Nicholas Steel

What do you mean? Force fields for what person, or what ship?

 

Holdo's ship had a force field (well, shields anyway, is there a difference?)

 

Spoiler

The big giant dreadnought etc., why was  a small X-Wing able to fly right up to it and blast its canons? The Death Star and Star Destroyer had force fields so why not a capital space ship? Oh and regarding the light-speed kamikaze with the space ship, she waited an awful long time before doing anything about the bad guys continually killing her comrades.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 20 December 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[NoeL]

Counterpoint

Except, whenever we first see her; she's already good enough with that pole to fend off several people at once.

Finn starts to help her; but she wins without assistance.

Later, on Luke's island; she shows off that same skill and then translates that into using the lightsaber.

On the issue of lightspeed munitions; two obvious objections come up.

First, a vessel of some size is needed to get to lightspeed.

Second, presumably it would also be harder for a smaller ship to pull off that sort of thing than a larger one.

Now, the Resistance doesn't have a lot of ships to spare.

In most cases; they wouldn't want to sacrifice the crew of a whole vessel.

Plus, they were trying to distract the First Order so that the transports could escape.

It was only after it became clear that the transports would all be destroyed that action was taken.

counter-counterpoint

A staff isn't a sword. Yes she could draw a lot of the same knowledge, but they're fundamentally different weapons.

 

We know ships as small as X-Wings can jump into hyperspace, so size isn't a real problem. We also know that ships can penetrate shields, so sticking a hyperdrive engine to a chunk of metal (or hell, an asteroid) and launching it through enemy ships would be devastating.

[Timelord]

SW Episode 8: The Last Plot Hole

Lets hope thst JJA is done, and that Episode 9 isn't as brain-dead.

I'm dubbing ep 9, 'The Last Original Cast Member'.

The EU stories were, in general, better than 7/8, IMO. Clearly, Disney want to strip off all of the legacy to sell toys and future films, or animations.

[Cukeman]

Sorry you didn't like it. JJ did 7, not 8, but word is he'll be back for 9.

[NoeL]

SW Episode 8: The Last Plot Hole

Lets hope thst JJA is done, and that Episode 9 isn't as brain-dead.

I'm dubbing ep 9, 'The Last Original Cast Member'.

The EU stories were, in general, better than 7/8, IMO. Clearly, Disney want to strip off all of the legacy to sell toys and future films, or animations.

I'm actually worried that JJ is doing ep 9. He did 7 which was awful, then Rian Johnson did 8 which was great (I don't care what the pedants say), now we're back to JJ who'll probably fan-service it up again. Bleh.

[Cukeman]

Who did you mean by "Last Original Cast Member", ZoriaRPG?

[Norzan]

Who did you mean by "Last Original Cast Member", ZoriaRPG?

Spoiler

Zoria probably means Leia since Luke and Han are dead in the Star Wars universe. Which is now weird because the actors who play Luke and Han are alive in real life, but Carrie Fisher sadly passed away late last year.

Edited by The Satellite, 27 December 2017 - 12:43 AM.
Tag your spoilers.