18 replies to this topic

[TheLegend_njf]

Should inappropriate language ever be included in a Zelda quest? Certainly it could be offensive. Which is something no quest designer wants to do.

In the quest I am designing I wanted a villain to express great anger, and therefore swears one time. This actually was a surprise to one of my beta testers that I was called out on it with disapproval. This is the first the I have included a swear word in any of my quests. It is intended to be a one time thing in the entire quest, however, though I don't mind controversy, because this will be a darker quest than my other quests. But would it damage the integrity of the quest to let one swear word be included? Or is it okay on those terms.

Trust me, to remove all concerns or questions, I am not including an entire message string set of profanity, just one slightly inappropriate word to express a villain's frustration and anger.

[The Satellite]

I'm surprised someone disapproves of a swear word in a quest; I bet they'd have a field day with some other quests like Fairy Dream or... heh, Mario's Insane Rampage. Even Light of the Heavens has some minor swearing in it on occasion. Never heard a complaint. Well, I have for MIR, but that's a fairly inappropriate quest in general...

My opinion: It's your quest, if you want it to have language in it, do so. You can put a "language warning" label somewhere, but you shouldn't have to. I mean, if the main character's gonna make every other word be "f***," it might be nice to warn us ahead of time, but otherwise, it's not a big deal. Like, at all.

[Russ]

If it's mild, I say go for. Obviously, you don't want to go overboard. Having somebody say "F*** you you f***ing s***head", for instance, would definitely be a bad idea. However, more mild stuff, if it's there for a good reason, would be totally acceptable, for me at least. In my own quest, as an example, after the villain has his perfect plan foiled at just the right moment, he gets angry and exclaims "Damn you!" I don't think that would cause much of an uproar, and honestly, I've heard worse profanities in a PG rated movie and a E rated game before.

Bottom line: It's good, as long as it's mild, and it has a reason to be there instead of just being there for the Hell of it. (Please shoot me for that.) On the other hand, if you're getting into pretty profane stuff (for example, anything that sets off the forum's filters), I'd at least drop a warning for those who are easily-offended.

[TheLegend_njf]

Well, I guess I will provide the quote. I'm nowhere near the computer now to quote the exact message, but one of the main villains says something like "Everybody needs a hero, a hero to help save them from some kind of evil, but why the F*** can't they help themselves?!?!"

Also in another scene, (though this is not language related) there is alot of dead soldiers on the floor in pools of blood.

Would these examples be enough to give it a warning? I really don't want to base my entire quest on these themes, but I do want to relay a powerful message towards the beginning, that this is indeed a darker game, but mildly of course.

This kind of impact I believe is necessary to give me freedom to develop the plot that will keep players on their toes.

[Lightwulf]

I, for one, am not fond of foul language. If it were me, I'd have the villain say something like "why can't those cretins help themselves?!?!" But that's just me.

My advice, to make you free to develop the plot how you want, is just have a disclaimer letting the player know that there are some mild language and gory scenes in the quest. Then they have no excuse to be offended; if they are sensitive to those things, they should stop and not play it.

Edited by Lightwulf, 07 May 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Russ]

Alright, while I'd say go for it, I'd also advise you put some kind of warning on the quest, because generally, when you get into words like that, people can start getting offended easily. Just something like "Warning: This quest contains some harsh language and brief gore".

[LinktheMaster]

Obviously I don't mind it, what with it being in Fairy Dream. I think it's fine as long as it fits the quest and you put up a warning. Honestly, if you have a quest where it fits to have a character that says the F word every 5words, that's fine. I just think what matters most is that it's fitting and not put in there just to have curse words.

[nicklegends]

I don't find it offensive so much as distracting. If a character is angry, convey it by using more than a single harsh word. Besides, in a story-driven game, it's the content of a character's lines that should shine. Also, at least for me, bad language makes characters feel less authentic as opposed to more authentic. I want mature characters, and curse words just seem childish and unnecessary.

Yeah. That's about six thoughts jumbled into one.

[Kite]

Curse words and other mild language, when used correctly, express genuine emotions. They can also express a character trait if the character just drops them randomly without a care in the world. So no, I don't have a problem with them. As long as you put a warning, it shouldn't be a problem. If that isn't someone's cup of tea, they have an out through such warnings.

But I'll admit, if people just add them for the sake of adding them, then they probably have some s***ty writing skills and I probably wouldn't want to sit through that. But the writing would tell me that instead of the actual words used.

People have complained about Fairy Dream's language, but LTM and I have no real intention of changing it since it's extremely minor because the words are not even censored on PureZC. Actually, let's take a look at some of the stuff I've pulled from a text dump.

Mild language in Fairy Dream so far

Note that some of this is so minor I don't even consider it mild.

So you're both tiny and you can't even speak. Damn, you suck. Hero my ass.

It's barely hidden! Damn, this village is full of idiots.

Damn straight!

Why the hell was <spoiler for a joke>

I'll do whatever the hell I want!

Well hell yeah we are, kid! Beatin' up badies, collectin' rupees. This is the life, kid.

Hey, watch where you're going, ass!

I'm sure the ladies will love your badass attitude!

Ricky McBadAss

McLameAss

... Kick his ass, Link.

Fairy Dream had 775 strings in this text dump. Mild language was included in a grand total of 11 instances.

You could call these unnecessary, but I honestly felt that they added to the characterization. The main talkative character is not going to say "Gosh darn. We better do some implied violence off screen on this baddie after he taunted the main hero with killing everyone he loved. Because golly gee willikers, that was kind of mean." As far as the humorous instances of language, we felt that the characters we created wouldn't hold back mild language (granted we have avoided the things that are censored on PureZC).

So yeah. If your quest calls for stronger language, go for it.

Edited by Nick, 07 May 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[MasterPlayer2342]

I think it's better to stay with mild language because if it's public some people could be sensitive to this sort of thing. So I suggest to keep away the strong language in case of young players.

[Ventus]

I say if the character need's some mild language to set the mood of the character go for it. its your story and no one else's.

So yeah. If your quest calls for stronger language, go for it.

Quoted for truth. ^

Basically if the plot call's for some foul language (As they call it) Just do it, I mean it is your game.

[ShadowTiger]

I will open by saying that nobody can stop you with your creative juices. You're absolutely free to do whatever you'd like. The consequences, however, must be thought of as well, though that's far more difficult to discern.

Personally, I consider the use of shocking language to be just that - shocking for the sake of shocking, but not shocking for the sake of grotesque. If I think the appearance of a fairly bad swear word will be shockingly surprising, but in a FUNNY way, then yeah, I'll put it in. But it'll very likely be an isolated case.

If you repeated use swears, and build them into the quest's common vernacular, then you're going to be thought of as being crude. If you use the words cleverly and sparingly, then you'll be a genius artist.

[The Satellite]

Also, at least for me, bad language makes characters feel less authentic as opposed to more authentic.

What, swearing in real life isn't authentic?

No, I get the point, but using your example NJF, I think if he's going to use one of what's considered the "more severe" words there, it wouldn't make make as much sense if he never swore again. But again, it's your quest, do whatever you feel like.

[Beefster]

It's a good idea to put a warning for anything more than mild language, but other than that, you're free to do whatever you want.

Just because Nintendo will avoid even saying "damn" doesn't mean you have to as well.

[NoeL]

Remember: at the end of the day, they're just f***ing words.