21 replies to this topic

[Aeon]

Okay, maybe I don't totally agree that the lack of a new story makes a quest not worth playing, since I did play Origin through to level 6/7 before I got tired of it. (Although it seems funny that you're disagreeing with me while your quest DID include a new story.)

However, I'm more willing to push myself to progress in a difficult quest if there's more story at the other end. I gave up on Origin because I got tired of the difficult dungeons (in easy mode!), and basically got bored with it. I brute-forced my way through most of HoD until I hit level 8 (where I gave up after dying in that stupid room with the spikes and blowers about 20 times, and never made it through) because I wanted to keep the story going.

Another thing I'd like to point out that I forgot to mention is to keep it linear at the beginning. The amount of access the player has to the world should be linear at the beginning, and broad at the end. The reason for this is because if you give the player too much to start with, they won't really know what to do with it all. If you look at games like Ocarina of Time or Metroid Prime, or any decent game that involves world exploration, you'll notice that you're always very limited at the beginning, and when you do finally get access to the "big world", you're told where you're supposed to go at any given point until you're familiar enough with the world that you can go exploring without getting lost.

... Even if the original Zelda didn't do that.

I tried Lost Isle, which doesn't seem to do this either, and the world is so big that I must have explored for several hours without ever figuring out what I was supposed to be doing. So I eventually got bored and gave up.

But I still think that having a compelling story is one of if not the biggest incentive for me to play a quest.

Edited by Aeon, 19 October 2007 - 06:45 PM.

[Shoelace]

Wow, dude, we think a lot alike. Like I told a couple people about EotM, my game is different in style in that, it is really linear in the beginning of the game. Once you get the mechanics down, the world opens up. But what I told the people was it is going to be linear like that in the beginning and some were a little mad because they don't like linear. But I think it will work out to the best because of the points you bring up.

I too, have said Lost Isle was a great game. The only problem I had was I had no clue what the hell I was doing most of the time. Other then that, 5 stars.

But yeah, I think having a compelling story is awesome, and I spend a lot of time working on my own. However, I don't think it is need as there are some quests that are good without a story. But yeah, story does add a lot more, especially if it is gripping and has some twists and character development in it.

[Peteo]

It's fun to read all these opinions here. Different people want different things from a quest. Some people demand a good story for a game to be good which I personally do not understand at all. IMO games are and should be all about fun, no matter what the story and graphics are. But yeah, no opinion is wrong, and there are millions of different opinions out there.

In a nutshell: No matter how good of a quest developer you are, the truth is that you cannot please everyone. That's one of the facts of life. Thank god I have finally learned that fact so every time someone says he dislikes my quest it doesn't mean everyone else does. It's important to remember that even though someone may hate your quest, there are surely people out there who love it too.

[tlseward]

I would like to weigh in on this discussion. I struggle with writing a whole new story, not because of a lack of ability to come up with one, but because of the limitations of graphics ability, maybe. I edit 40 tiles every quest I make in order to make what I'm doing look right. However drawing a cowboy hat on link, for example, is beyond my abilities. Therefore, I go with what I'm capable of. The result is that My quests are often in the 4 star range. I have one 5 star quest so far, because I made a huge out of scale house and tied it into a story of Link in giant land.

I'm learning a bit. I changed the wand into a fire extinguisher, and was actually able to make it put out flames in my Hyrules Big Flood quest.

As far as what makes a good quest? PLAYABILITY. If you can't play it, but it wins screenshot of the month, great, you've made a cool picture. So if it is too buggy, or too hard, what fun is that?

Also on the linear thing, My quests are non-linear as much as possible. What I do, however, is limit where you can be non-linear until you get the next item. For example, until you beat level one on my new quest, you are limited to 9 screens. Then you get a ladder, you are opened up to another 9 screens.
I also like a wide open game because it allows for back tracking. IF you read a hint that says go to the waterfall, you have to know where there is a waterfall to go back to and try whatever move you are going to try. I think Zelda is king of NES, and beyond because it is non-linear. Most other games are glorified platform games, left to right.

I'm not an expert on questmaking, but I feel like I've done enough of them to have something to say.
Thanks for hearing my two cents.

Tom

Edited by tlseward, 27 October 2007 - 05:58 PM.

[ziplobob2]

a good quest has to have good graphics, good puzzles, not immpossible, tested to perfection, multiple overworlds and a storyline that isn't a cheap rip-off from somthing else or "Ganon kidnapped Zelda...".
Take "Hero of Dreams" or "Protector of the Damn Universe", those are great examples of quality quests.

[The (s)]

The soul purpose of The (s) is to make original quests out from the blue. Like Evil Castle was totally original in some ways. Yet evil castle had bugs still and it was too short. If I have time, I will remake that quest to meet the fullest of other people's expectation.

[Reflectionist]

It's good to have a fairly good grasp on Anti Suckage.