1041 replies to this topic

[pixcalibur]

Gotta do that battle in front of Enigma Castle to destroy the cannon as well now.

[ShadowTiger]

Hi! Dunno if this is a bug or just a new gameplay mechanic, but ah well. Currently, the L2 boomerang can deal damage; not the boomerang itself (that just stuns foes, as usual) but the surrounding aura. It deals minimal damage (1/2 a L1 sword strike... ) but can kill, and on enemies normally immune to death by L2 boomerang. Can't kill anything it can't stun, though. Thought you should know. Also, as shown in MeleeWizard's playthrough, you can bypass the Nightmare Lock in the Crypt, get keys you should have to have the hookshot for, and generally make it through WITHOUT having the hookshot. Not sure if that's a sequence break, considering I never played the original version of this quest, but given the large amount of grapple points in the level, I'm going to err on saying it is.

I'll drop by to report any bugs I find, whether you want me to or not. Sadly, I can't send screenshots- I use a laptop for this, and I either can't find the button or it's broken. So I'll just drop by on occasion to let you know what I find. (For the record, I'd like to say GREAT JOB with this to you and C-Dawg. )

Too kind; really glad you're enjoying it. I believe the F12 key is the Screenshot key, yes. They end up in your ZC folder, in the same folder as your executables. You can upload them to photobucket or imageshack, for example, and link the URLs here in IMG tags.

The L2 Boomerang? The one that kinda looks like the L1 Wooden Boomerang, but has a blue glowing aura about it? That one? Weird. Well, I really don't see anything in ZQuest that would help turn that off, but that's okay. If it can't kill anything it can't stun, then that's precisely what is supposed to happen. I mean I'm not that much of a control freak. O.o

The Crypt and the Train Station were meant to be done in either order. You can absolutely do one before the other without the other dungeon's items. I just don't happen to have any particularly full quantity of wherewithal to adjust what the masked ninja says after you beat one of the two dungeons before the other. He expects you to do it Train Station -> Crypt -> Whatever else, as that's what he says, generally. Won't bother to give him speech if you do it the other way around. Not worth it. But yeah, you don't actually need the hookshot in the Crypt. It just helps. To get the boss key, just drop down the pit that looks like you need to hookshot across it. You can always come back with the hookshot to get what's past it. I don't even believe there are any pound combos in the Train Station, oddly enough. O.o I should add some!

Hey ShadowTiger, I got a little problem here. (By the way, I took a break from testing, alas my no posting here recently) .

I can't go to the Deku Tree anymore, when I try to climb, I go here:



The ninja says he can't allow me go to the Deku Tree until it's guardians are no longer in danger. What does he mean as I have already gotten into the Deku Tree on the last build? Or did you add something I have missed? Please fix this, I just noticed today since as said, I took a break from testing. (If it helps, I beated Marathon again just in case but no result...)

Gotta do that battle in front of Enigma Castle to destroy the cannon as well now.

Indeed, and said castle door opens upon the defeat of the young Prince of Bel Air Enigma Castle. It's quite a wonderful battle.


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In other news, I'm thinking of enabling "True Arrows," and the magic meter! Half of the Bomb Upgrade rooms will be turned to arrow upgrade rooms, which will give you an additional carrying capacity of +10 arrows. How's that sound? This will get rid of the quest's massive amount of often unnecessary bomb upgrade rooms, and will allow arrows to be more valuable! I can upgrade their damage as well because of their new potential rarity, and I can offset the heart and rupee drop by an additional value. It'll also give us something new to buy in shops. Neat.

I also had an idea for the magic meter. Instead of four swords, there will now be six. But swords #3 and #4 are duplicates of each other, as are #5 and #6, with the only difference is that swords #4 and #6 will have different beam effects. When you have a certain amount of magic, your sword will glow, and your sword beam will penetrate enemies that it's capable of doing so, and will deal quite a nice amount of damage. But when you don't have the magic for it, it'll act like a normal sword. The wand and candles will also require magic, as will the lens, in all likelihood. What do people think?

[pixcalibur]

Hmm, interesting on considering separating arrows into their own category. A few of the other quests I've played do do that. 72 bombs total can be a bit much How much damage would the different level arrows do in this case?

So with the swords, #3 & #4 would be the current L3 sword, #5 & #6 would be the current L4 sword? I assume the sword beams don't take magic on their own. Would the L4 sword still have sword beams regardless of current amount of life like what's in the current quest file?

Magic concept would be interesting to test out. I assume you would put magic jar upgrades at various points in the game, probably 8 bars unless there's space for 16 bars. Also may help taking some of the space where hearts are, as no real need for 40 hearts, 24 capacity was plenty

Any possibility to put the Slash sword tech in (swinging in a quarter circle arc), probably from the Dojo?

==============================

Some small things at this time

Can get L3 sword without talking to the person in the desert who tells you where to look. I assume you've already fixed this. Maybe can add a switch trigger in the room with the person you need to talk to that will open a blockade to the fountain or path to the sword

4:53, 8:12 – enemies on walls





================================

20:64 – see picture for odd under combos. Also when coming up from B1, Link should spawn next to the stairs to make use of the block formation



====================================

3:62 – may want to require arrow for this path as well. Also any way to make it such that you have to come to the dried lake first and talking to the Zora before going to the dam?

6:63 – map in basement actually gives map for 1F as well. Can either separate to make 1 map for 1 floor or can put compass here

39:42 – need the same teleport mechanism as for other relic stone rooms if entering from behind.

Edited by pixcalibur, 10 March 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

Hmm, interesting on considering separating arrows into their own category. A few of the other quests I've played do do that. 72 bombs total can be a bit much. How much damage would the different level arrows do in this case?

72 definitely is, yes. Well, I'm thinking that being stuck with an arrow kinda hurts, and you don't really get the L2 Arrows until you can get the L3 Sword, so I figure we'll bump the L1 Arrows up to 4 Damage (because arrows will still be rare at that point, and you'll still need them for secrets, and upgrades are more likely to be gotten when you have the L2 Arrows.) ... and the L2 arrows might be turned into Ice Arrows, which can extinguish specially colored flames as a way to pass onward, possibly in the Deku Jungle. The earliest you can get the L2 Arrows is when you have the Ladder, and can get them in Capital Port, it seems. I have no idea what the L2 Arrows are supposed to be as it is, anyway. Seriously, what ARE those? So the L2 Arrows can do 8 damage, but they'll use a bit of magic. I think I'll make them kill fire-based enemies immediately. I know there's a way. The L3 Arrows will just crap all over everything, pardon the imagery. If you get the L3 Arrows, you're awesome. That's all. But they'll use 4 arrows each shot, and some magic. That's the kicker. Decent trade? It's not like you'll need more arrows. But don't worry, I'll script it so that if you don't have enough arrows or magic, you'll downgrade to the next arrow. At least I hope I have the skills to do that.

So with the swords, #3 & #4 would be the current L3 sword, #5 & #6 would be the current L4 sword? I assume the sword beams don't take magic on their own. Would the L4 sword still have sword beams regardless of current amount of life like what's in the current quest file?

Yessir. They just won't penetrate if you don't have the magic to back it.

Magic concept would be interesting to test out. I assume you would put magic jar upgrades at various points in the game, probably 8 bars unless there's space for 16 bars. Also may help taking some of the space where hearts are, as no real need for 40 hearts, 24 capacity was plenty!

Haha, oh yes, absolutely. I'll probably have these things being quite rare, for the harder-to-get HCPs. I don't even think Link will start off with a Magic Container. I just don't feel that's necessary. I mean we don't get the Candle until well after we've gotten the Dream Whistle. That's three important items into the game!!

Any possibility to put the Slash sword tech in (swinging in a quarter circle arc), probably from the Dojo?

I'm still debating with myself as to whether or not to make the old man a miniboss. We already paid 750 or so rupees, and shouldn't that be enough? But it's up to you. It'll delay its release quite a bit, but it'll be more impressive.

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4:53, 8:12 – enemies on walls

But but but but there are No Enemy flags on those walls! D: I don't understand this at all! ... Meh. So I replaced those floors with unwalkable combos that looked like floors. *grumble*grumble* ...

But yeah, all bugs fixed, and I added a Zora Checkpoint in front of the Dam. Works great. Just gotta talk to King Zora to make 'em stand down.

[pixcalibur]

I assume you fixed the other stuff in the last post below all the snapshots.

You can get L2 arrows in the cave next to the Dam where you can get the coated shield at 5:30. So may want to replace that with something else.

Well, doesn't matter too much how it's obtained - paying or battle. Kinda interesting to see that if it gets added in.

[ShadowTiger]

I assume you fixed the other stuff in the last post below all the snapshots.

Of course. Test out the new Zora entry-way yourself right now, in fact! Though do note that I'm still working with the new game mechanics, so things will seem odd. In fact in the past two minutes before I began typing this, I just imported new sounds for the arrows. They sound awesome, and will be even better when their images match their sounds.

You can get L2 arrows in the cave next to the Dam where you can get the coated shield at 5:30. So may want to replace that with something else.

Well, doesn't matter too much how it's obtained - paying or battle. Kinda interesting to see that if it gets added in.

Ah, thanks for reminding me. Replaced it with the L2 Sword, just for the heck of it. Dunno why anyone would ever need to buy it if they aren't pot-smash-crazy when they get to the Dream world.

Just implemented Magic. Gotta refine the drop-rate on its refills though. Arrows are in, though they're hard to test with if we've already gotten all the upgrades.

I need to make a list of where the bomb upgrades are, and replace half of them with arrow upgrades. Going to be an interesting couple of nights.

Also, nobody ever answers the question on whether they want a miniboss for the slash upgrade. I'm tempted not to do it at all.

[pixcalibur]

What type of mini boss would you consider putting in there? You could do something like in the Hotel, but with more enemies and/or different kinds of enemies to battle. Maybe a few rooms of battles or something like that.

Pay to buy the upgrade would be ok if you can't fit a mini boss in.

[ShadowTiger]

Yeah, it's why I'm not that insistent on there being a miniboss. The miniboss in question would (should?) actually be the old man himself, testing you to see if you're still worthy. There are, essentially, three trials to his test. The first is to see if you have 16 Heart Containers. That part is already in and works perfectly, thank goodness. The next test is to see if your wallet can hold 750 rupees and if you're MAN ENOUGH to grind for them. ... heheh. Oy. Eh, the next time, if there is one, is to see if you have the combat skills to survive his challenge.

This is entirely non-inclusive of the nearby challenges to get the skill scrolls in the adjacent rooms to the area, of course.

As of last night, much of the foundation work for the true arrows and magic meter stuff has been done. That was the easy part. Now comes the hard part; the scripting.

[Umbra]

Hi again! Sry shadow, it won't work; PureZC won't let me post the uploaded screenshots... I still found some stuff, and I'll list it below. The pictures are uploaded on Photobucket, if you need to see them- The name of my account there is NeoPenumbra and will be used solely for this. The link's right there... so I'll put any pictures there. Sorry for the roundabout path but this is the best I can do.
-Mighty Darknuts don't split anymore... Is that supposed to happen?
-There's a wall in the Devouring Forest Trap Caves that, when viewed with the Lens, seems to bee bombable. But the entire area around the wall's surrounded by water... so you can't bomb it. So is that a glitch, or is it bombable and I'm missing something?
-Still possible to be trapped in certain Relic Pathways in the Temple Excavation. Notably the first floor ones.
-Darknuts and Helmetheads can be injured and killed by the Candle's flame. Even when shielded... Odd much?
-With the Fire Boomerang, in the second room of Predator Head, you can dodge the Red Bubbles that are supposed to remove your sword, stun them, and waltz right through, allowing a possibility of sequence breaking. If you want to fix this, simply make the door close behind you when you enter, and open upon the press of a switch in the center of the room.
-It's possible to fall from certain places in Predator and get trapped in a wall. One of them is the Like Like target practice in the bottom right corner of Body.
-The guy blocking the Deku Jungle... He's the Triforce Check Screen, right? If so, do you think his message could be altered a bit? Because I think you'd plan to use that screen to seal off some of the secret dungeons... Like your cat's dream, for instance.
-The Blue and Red Wizzrobes really were nerfed big... A bit too much, in my opinion. They really aren't the threat that they used to be... Not much at all, even at the first possible encounter... But that's just me.
-Most times when a projectile hits the coated shield, no sound effect plays. That's not right, is it?
-When using the Lens, if you swing the sword once, the audio file of Link's voice will play repeatedly as long as the Lens is being used. Definitely weird.
-It's possible to trap yourself in many block puzzles... Too many ways to show pictures for, though. Doubt you'll find them all, but you're not really trying to idiotproof the game, are you?
-I'd show this one, but I can't get a screenshot... The L3 boomerang sometmes stuns enemies that are supposed to divide on taking damage...but also damages them as well. They cam be killed off that way without them splitting. It also can be done with the L2 boomerang, but as I mentioned, the damage that does is a glitch in itself...
-Is it intentional for you to be able to use the L3 boomerang to kill the Like-Likes in the target practice rooms in Predator?
-Just a thought here, but currently boss drops are rather lackluster... Perhaps the bigger bosses, like Gleeoks, could drop large rupee amounts (50, 100, 200?), superbombs in place of normal ones, and a L1 potion instead of hearts? That could help, and make it possible to create a truly massive boss battle... Maybe.
-The bosses really should be able to respawn, considering you use the weaker ones like normal enemies. I know it can be done; I have a few dozen burn marks from a pair of Aquamenti in Souls of Wisdom's optional dungeon that can prove it. Maybe you could ask him?
-A thought on Relic Room possibilities that might remove some of the bugs... Remove the doors leading into and out of the room going up, and use warp tiles that can only be accessed by using a Relic. A similar tactic was used on the Relic Room guarding the stairs to B-3, by putting the stairs in a similar position. That sort of thing is what I was thinking with warp tiles. Might also explain why they need them to open up a path, by making them a theoretical power source for the warps.

I think you said in the first post that you're taking dungeon ideas... Well, how about one in Link's house? Move the fairy, put a portal in Link's bed, and you have Link's Nightmare-World of Ganon. Or one in Zelda's room? You could change her dialogue, mention her sleep and memories being disturbed, and you have Zelda's Nightmare- The Fallen Temple. You could put the L6 sword as the reward for Link's Nightmare, as it'd make more sense for Link to have the Master Sword already but sealed within him than anything else I can think of... And the Gold Ring should be tougher to get than it currently is, as you can get it before the Red Ring at the moment.

And as for what you've said since I posted... Yes, a miniboss for slash would be cool, but no, don't do it if it'll take forever, as I for one would rather see some of those optional dungeons in development finished so we can beta test them. YES YES YES, we need the magic in game so we can add the spells! But make the Lens use up MUCH less magic than it usually does- this game uses it a LOT, and in the real Zeldas it uses up magic at a very low rate. The arrows are a good idea, but why would you need 4 arrows for a golden one? Make it use one, but a lot of magic per shot. Silver arrows should just be a direct upgrade, given that you need them to kill Ganon... thus that one should be a vanilla upgrade, without using up magic. Hopefully, you'll make Link start off with a decent quiver... 8 arrows at the start is rather pathetic, and could easily strand you in the Dam. How about 30, like normal Zeldas? Heart drops are currently solid- rupee drops as well, considering the price of everything... but maybe the 50 rupee drop could be a bit rarer?

And yes, it was THAT boomerang. But not the boomerang itself; the sparkles seemed to be the culprit, acting like the fire that surrounds some quests' version of the L3 boomerang. And I'm not too kind, you deserve it. Keep it up!

[ShadowTiger]

Whoah, neat! Thanks for the reply! Quite a big one. Let's break apart this post, and see what we have. (I'll put it in spoiler tags because the quote tags broke.)

Spoiler

Hi again! Sorry shadow, it won't work; PureZC won't let me post the uploaded screenshots...

Ah, do you have Javascript enabled for that page? I know that when you right-click on the image and "Copy Location" or whatever, it just copies the Javascript functionality, but on the right side of the page, there are three options; click the "IMG" option, and you can ctrl-v the image directly into a post.

I still found some stuff, and I'll list it below. The pictures are uploaded on Photobucket, if you need to see them- The name of my account there isNeoPenumbraand will be used solely for this. The link's right there... so I'll put any pictures there. Sorry for the roundabout path but this is the best I can do.

And it's nice of you. Absolutely. this is quite a treasure trove here, and I definitely, absolutely appreciate the effort!!

-Mighty Darknuts don't split anymore... Is that supposed to happen?

Splitting Darknuts always bothered me. Why should they split into two other, slightly weaker Darknuts? Know what I mean? So I just made them more powerful darknuts. No biggie, really. ZQuest's enemy editor is quite powerful.

-There's a wall in the Devouring Forest Trap Caves that, when viewed with the Lens, seems to bee bombable. But the entire area around the wall's surrounded by water... so you can't bomb it. So is that a glitch, or is it bombable and I'm missing something?

There were enough secret flags to warrant an original purpose, but it doesn't actually lead anywhere useful, so I removed the flags.

-Still possible to be trapped in certain Relic Pathways in the Temple Excavation. Notably the first floor ones.

I'll take a look at them. It's possible to fix this with some complex scripting, but I'm no scripting wizard, unfortunately.

-Darknuts and Helmetheads can be injured and killed by the Candle's flame. Even when shielded... Odd much?

Eh; I know I'm taking liberties, but fire hurts. Especially when you're already inside a hot suit of armor, being baked alive shouldn't be anything they don't suffer from.

-Is it intentional for you to be able to use the L3 boomerang to kill the Like-Likes in the target practice rooms in Predator?

-With the Fire Boomerang, in the second room of Predator Head, you can dodge the Red Bubbles that are supposed to remove your sword, stun them, and waltz right through, allowing a possibility of sequence breaking. If you want to fix this, simply make the door close behind you when you enter, and open upon the press of a switch in the center of the room.

I kind of wanted the player to be rewarded for having the Fire Boomerang at that point with an easier time through the Megalodon, but there is a crucial gimmick of that particular dungeon, so it's quite the fair point. Cool beans; the bottom door of the first two rooms you go through are now one-way passageways.

-It's possible to fall from certain places in Predator and get trapped in a wall. One of them is the Like Like target practice in the bottom right corner of Body.

Nice catch! Fixed. Also caught a few screen-scrolling combo inconsistencies. Thanks again.

-The guy blocking the Deku Jungle... He's the Triforce Check Screen, right? If so, do you think his message could be altered a bit? Because I think you'd plan to use that screen to seal off some of the secret dungeons... Like your cat's dream, for instance.

Altered to what? I'm not sure I follow.

-The Blue and Red Wizzrobes really were nerfed big... A bit too much, in my opinion. They really aren't the threat that they used to be... Not much at all, even at the first possible encounter... But that's just me.

An interesting point. I can change it up a little bit. Just a tad.

-Most times when a projectile hits the coated shield, no sound effect plays. That's not right, is it?

Nice catch. Never noticed that. Fixed. I didn't know there was an option for the sound effect that it should play. I guess it stands to reason that there would be, considering how the SFX tidbits can be altered in 2.5, and possibly earlier now.

-When using the Lens, if you swing the sword once, the audio file of Link's voice will play repeatedly as long as the Lens is being used. Definitely weird.

That's a bug that I doubt I have any control over. It's probably script related, but there really isn't a heck of a lot to the script as it is. It's a really small script. Interesting find though.

-It's possible to trap yourself in many block puzzles... Too many ways to show pictures for, though. Doubt you'll find them all, but you're not really trying to idiot-proof the game, are you?

Sadly, I am. Heh. There are plenty of puzzles where it's impossible to push a block into a corner and trap it, for example.

-I'd show this one, but I can't get a screenshot... The L3 boomerang sometimes stuns enemies that are supposed to divide on taking damage...but also damages them as well. They cam be killed off that way without them splitting. It also can be done with the L2 boomerang, but as I mentioned, the damage that does is a glitch in itself...

I don't think this can be fixed. Well, short of removing the sparkles. But I don't consider this a bug. I consider it a combat aide.

... Long post is long.

[ShadowTiger]

Sorry for the double-post; I couldn't get the quote tags to not break without making one. G'haa. Frustration.

Spoiler

-Just a thought here, but currently boss drops are rather lackluster... Perhaps the bigger bosses, like Gleeoks, could drop large rupee amounts (50, 100, 200?), superbombs in place of normal ones, and a L1 potion instead of hearts? That could help, and make it possible to create a truly massive boss battle... Maybe.

Those bosses tend to be more of minibosses. I've been spiffying up all the real bosses, so it evens out ... ...? ... right?

-The bosses really should be able to respawn, considering you use the weaker ones like normal enemies. I know it can be done; I have a few dozen burn marks from a pair of Aquamenti in Souls of Wisdom's optional dungeon that can prove it. Maybe you could ask him?

I'll think about it. Aquamenti, certainly. Dodongos, though, are just plain annoying.

-A thought on Relic Room possibilities that might remove some of the bugs... Remove the doors leading into and out of the room going up, and use warp tiles that can only be accessed by using a Relic. A similar tactic was used on the Relic Room guarding the stairs to B-3, by putting the stairs in a similar position. That sort of thing is what I was thinking with warp tiles. Might also explain why they need them to open up a path, by making them a theoretical power source for the warps.

I think you said in the first post that you're taking dungeon ideas... Well, how about one in Link's house? Move the fairy, put a portal in Link's bed, and you have Link's Nightmare-World of Ganon. Or one in Zelda's room? You could change her dialogue, mention her sleep and memories being disturbed, and you have Zelda's Nightmare- The Fallen Temple. You could put the L6 sword as the reward for Link's Nightmare, as it'd make more sense for Link to have the Master Sword already but sealed within him than anything else I can think of... And the Gold Ring should be tougher to get than it currently is, as you can get it before the Red Ring at the moment.

Link's house is certainly taken. It operates via a 2.10 dungeon boss style trick, and I don't want to disturb that. It's the only way to the Twilight Gardens, Elf, and Marathon. (Wow. Lot of places in Link's head. )

Though one thing that I definitely did want to do is to make the L4 Sword much harder to get due to its potentially overpowered nature, even though in the semi-near future it'll need magic to be at its most powerful, and only mostly powerful without magic. It'll probably have its own dungeon, though I'm unsure as to what sort as of yet. As for the L4 Ring, I might put four keys around B-3 of the Excavation and force the player to find them all in order to progress.

In fact, I just now retooled the entire B-3 to accommodate four keys, and require the Mirror Shield to progress out of even the first room of it.

And as for what you've said since I posted... Yes, a miniboss for slash would be cool, but no, don't do it if it'll take forever, as I for one would rather see some of those optional dungeons in development finished so we can beta test them.

Heh, me too. :-3 Took the thoughts right out of my head.

YES YES YES, we need the magic in game so we can add the spells! But make the Lens use up MUCH less magic than it usually does- this game uses it a LOT, and in the real Zeldas it uses up magic at a very low rate.

I don't even think this is possible, sadly. I mean the minimum value is its current speed. That's kind of sad. I really wish it could be a decimal.

The arrows are a good idea, but why would you need 4 arrows for a golden one?

Because it's too damn powerful. It's like a friggin rocket. When you hear the new sound effect, you'll know.

Make it use one, but a lot of magic per shot.

Oh it does.

Silver arrows should just be a direct upgrade, given that you need them to kill Ganon... thus that one should be a vanilla upgrade, without using up magic.

It's an ice arrow, actually. But just in case they don't have the L2 Arrow for whatever bizarre reason, I spawned it on them on the screen where they need it. But I plan on putting the Ice Arrow to good use in other areas. All fire-based enemies are far more vulnerable to them now, via a ZQuest trick.

Hopefully, you'll make Link start off with a decent quiver... 8 arrows at the start is rather pathetic, and could easily strand you in the Dam. How about 30, like normal Zeldas? Heart drops are currently solid- rupee drops as well, considering the price of everything... but maybe the 50 rupee drop could be a bit rarer?

It'll increase in increments of 10, and enemies will drop it easily enough, and I'll put down plenty of ammo in the Dam, and make them available in shops nearby. Don't worry. They've already been added to enemy drops as of the time of this writing. Besides, if you saw the way the Item drop set editor in DoY and the values I have, you'll be scratching your head as to how they're dropped so often when I have them set to something so darn low.

And yes, it was THAT boomerang. But not the boomerang itself; the sparkles seemed to be the culprit, acting like the fire that surrounds some quests' version of the L3 boomerang. And I'm not too kind, you deserve it. Keep it up!

Long story short, I found out how to remove the sparkles.

[pixcalibur]

From what I've seen on test runs listed below. A lot of these changes are also present is other quests I've played

- Super darknuts are like double strength blue darknuts, L3 darknuts you could call them

- for Excavation, I've noticed that. If there's a way to prevent waste of relic stones, not too hard to change a few things that would also prevent getting trapped and also allow use of all 11 stones to reach everything.

- in Predator, not too much breaking given you still need to find all the keys around the place. If you wanted to keep the gimmick, when entering the 2nd room, close the door and immediately be hit by red bubbles

- with wizzrobes, damage from blue ones down by 1/4, reds and mirror down by I think half. Honestly the damage reduction not too noticeable with higher armor levels. Another set of quests I've played has all wizzrobe damage down by 1/2. So maybe can put reds and blues up a bit, keep mirrors down a bit on damage given what you'll deal with later on in the game.

- L2 boomerang sparkles only do half of L1 sword damage, but can help for distance, especially given the addition of a separate arrow quiver where now you can't recklessly shoot arrows.

- yeah, may be simpler to just pay for the Slash upgrade. Lens should use magic slowly (OoT and MM have it drain magic slowly). Gold arrows maybe 2 arrows and slight magic use, as that would punish the player for getting the upgrade otherwise. Got enough other weapons to use so that not having to spam arrows.

- can start with capacity of 10 bombs, 4 super bombs, and 30 arrows. With 8 bomb and arrow upgrades, and each bomb upgrade giving extra +5 bombs and +2 super bombs capacity and each arrow upgrade is +5 arrow capacity, will round out nicely at 50 bombs, 20 supers, 70 arrows.

- Current drop rates should stay as such. 50 rupee drops are already rare, never hurts to get a bit lucky given you'll need a bit of cash

- Well, is the L3 boomerang even accessible with the changes now? Gold mail one can get by for some time with resources. So can put all the locks on the upper paths in front of doors going up

Edited by pixcalibur, 11 March 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

From what I've seen on test runs listed below. A lot of these changes are also present is other quests I've played

- Super darknuts are like double strength blue darknuts, L3 darknuts you could call them

Really? Other quests do this too? Then again, I specifically turned the Splitting Darknuts into L3 Darknuts. Maybe they left them alone and added the L3 Darknuts from a blank template. .. Eh, whatever. Doesn't really matter.

- for Excavation, I've noticed that. If there's a way to prevent waste of relic stones, not too hard to change a few things that would also prevent getting trapped and also allow use of all 11 stones to reach everything.

This would be interesting to research. It's not like there really is a linear way to do the entire Excavation. There's tons and tons of ways around everything.

- in Predator, not too much breaking given you still need to find all the keys around the place. If you wanted to keep the gimmick, when entering the 2nd room, close the door and immediately be hit by red bubbles

Yeah, easy enough. Very, very easy enough, I mean. Already done, as of this post.

- with wizzrobes, damage from blue ones down by 1/4, reds and mirror down by I think half. Honestly the damage reduction not too noticeable with higher armor levels. Another set of quests I've played has all wizzrobe damage down by 1/2.

Hm. Well, Wizzrobes do do a ridiculous amount of damage with their magic. I'm not surprised people are making it do half the damage. I mean, why should the player's wand do 4 damage (Same as L2 Sword) while their magic beams do 8? That's crazy.

- L2 boomerang sparkles only do half of L1 sword damage, but can help for distance, especially given the addition of a separate arrow quiver where now you can't recklessly shoot arrows.

I am intrigued, but we'll see how well the arrow droprates turn out. There are still plenty of occasions where I can turn bomb ammo found in chests into arrows.

- yeah, may be simpler to just pay for the Slash upgrade. Lens should use magic slowly (OoT and MM have it drain magic slowly). Gold arrows should not use magic, as that would punish the player for getting the upgrade.

I think this is the slowest it will ever drain though, short of making it use rupees.

- can start with capacity of 10 bombs, 4 super bombs, and 30 arrows. With 8 bomb and arrow upgrades, and each bomb upgrade giving extra +5 bombs and +2 super bombs capacity and each arrow upgrade is +5 arrow capacity, will round out nicely at 50 bombs, 20 supers, 70 arrows.

Alas, bomb upgrade "rooms" where you pay for the upgrade are hard-coded at giving you an extra 4 bombs capacity, and arrow rooms, an additional 10. All we can change is the price. What we COULD do is make a new type of shop for each individual upgrade with a quiver-type item that upgrades the bomb/arrow capacity by a set amount. The problem is, though, how do you make that shop a one-time thing only?

Current drop rates should stay as such. 50 rupee drops are already rare, never hurts to get a bit lucky given you'll need a bit of cash.

Yep, agreed. I lowered them considerably a month or so ago, and I think they're fine so far.

[pixcalibur]

Putting a double magic upgrade may also help. Hopefully not too hard to stick that in somewhere.

For upgrades, actually that should work. Can put start values of max 8 bombs, 4 super bombs, 20 arrows. Totals would be max 40 bombs (8x4 + 8), 20 supers (8x2 +4), and 100 arrows (8x10 + 20). So I don't think a separate upgrade room is needed.

Not sure how excavation B-3 will be formatted, but hopefully L3 boomerang is still accessible at least.

[Umbra]

Hey, just thought to say hi. Don't have anything this time as of yet, but in this case, I guess no news is good news? But reading your reply, I think I might be able to clear some things up...
To start with, it's not the java or anything else keeping me from putting the images up- PureZC just won't let me put the images here. It says that the web address is formatted in a way incompatible with the system. Meh.

As for the Relic Pathways, I mentioned a few ways to deal with it, didn't I? Or are those ways I mentioned impossible to implement? Seriously, let me know- I don't use the editor, because I can't figure out how to use it for the life of me.

I know fire HURTS, but the Darknuts and Helmetheads are very tough foes in their own right. You may think they would be baked alive, and you're probably right- but for Peteo's sake, this is ZELDA! Since when are things supposed to make sense? If that's not enough though, how about this one- It's a candle, so although it may be a magic flame, it's still a SMALL magic flame. It might stun them as they dance the hotfoot, but that's about all a flame that size could do to something that's wearing something... nonflammable, even if it's armor. If you want them to be vulnerable to burnination, don't waste it on the candle, go for the inferno, or Din's Fire. Darknuts going down from that, I can understand- heck, I'm suprised that it doesn't one-shot them in most quests.
Seriously, do you wonder about that too?

About the splitting darknuts- You're right about it not making sense, but I thought that this would be one time where that really didn't apply. I mean, anything could happen in a dream, right?

About the Like Like Shooting Gallery-Now that I think more on it, you may have a point there. Although it shouldn't be possible to do, what happens if you got to that point of the game with a piercing arrow and no other way to hurt them? You'd be stuck!

As for the ninja's dialogue, what I meant was this: He's the guy that stops you from entering a specific area until you have the full Triforce, or Dream Crystals, or Magic Muffins, or whatever a quest uses for it. That means that, if you want to use a screen in a secret dungeon that prevents access until you collect the Triforce equivalents, you may want to change it a bit so the screen's usage there doesn't feel awkward. That's all.

As for you idiot-proofing the game, you're probably going to be working on this forever then. It's impossible to do- if you idiot-proof something, someone's just gonna come up with a better idiot. As for the block puzzle traps, I wasn't talking about you being able to box the block into a corner- that's part of the puzzle's... puzzleness. I was talking about being able to box Link into a corner, which isn't supposed to happen. Right?

As for the boss drops... Even if they're just minibosses, why should they just drop one stinking rupee? The upgraded "boss" drops meant making the drops for enemies that are an actual challenge worth taking the foe down for in their own right, in my eyes. I mean, why should Ropes, which die in one hit, drop more rupees than a 4-headed Fire Gleeok, which kills YOU in one hit? Or a Keese Tribble, which are vulnerable to everything and can be torn to shreds in a single tap, drop more hearts or heart replenishing items than a L3 Patra that's immune to most weapons and can tear you to shreds? You don't have to go overboard, I just think that the mightiest of foes should give better swag then the one-hit wonders of Hyrule.

Respawning bosses... Where did you get the idea of Dodongos from anyway? They're already capable of respawning far too quickly! Every other boss is fun to fight, but Dodongos are a nuisance. Anyway, I didn't just mean those... I also meant your custom bosses. Those don't come back, ever, which is kinda depressing considering how neat the fights were. I know it's possible to both have Zelda original bosses respawn and for the custom bosses to be made to respawn- I've seen both in top-tier quests. Again, try talking to Grant Cole for the first, and check with Shoelace for the second- by what I've seen, they both would gladly help make a great quest even better.

Hmm... Hadn't realized Link's dreams were so crowded... Well, then, it's too bad that you can't squeeze it in...Because I remember that Link connects to his ancestors memories and power when he gets the Master Sword. But, I just thought that it was possible he didn't unlock all of the sword's power... I had thought perhaps in the area inside Link's dreams, he might be able to use the power of the Master Sword to find a well-hidden secret cave passage to an illusory Subrosia, holding a dream realm version of the Hero's Shrine/dungeon I think you plan on creating to house the Master Sword... If that were to happen, he'd probably go through it again to sate his curiosity. Sadly, he might find that the place he remembered in the world of the waking has little in common with the place he finds himself in his dream, and find instead that, like everything else in the Dream Realm, the curse laid by Ganon and his two wizzrobe minions tainted even this sacred ground. He could find that even with the Master Sword already in tow, the power of the foes would be great enough to threaten to overwhelm him at each turn, and the puzzles so sadistically devious and twisted that his brain would overheat from attempting to solve them... And when by some miracle he reaches the end, instead of connecting with his ancestors' power, he might find himself instead facing the touch of darkness buried within even the most valiant and pure of the heroes, and have to conquer his darkness as well of that of his ancestors... And if that were to happen, if he were to succeed, he might find himself then capable of wielding the True Master Sword, the true form of the Master Sword, that could only be wielded by a valiant hero who acknowledged the fact that even he had darkness residing within himself, and took all steps to conquer it... It's too bad that it's impossible to implement. Well, I guess that it wasn't meant to be...

The B-3 having keys as well? Ok, that could help out, but I still think it could be a bit too easy. With that armor, even DeathKnights quake in fear of your power. What I was thinking was that the current temple stays the same (with the possible exception of the OP, easy to find, only 1 relic and ladder needed Light Arrows), and that when you reach Zelda, instead of finding her awake and willing to give you the Gold Ring just like that, you instead find that she, like most every other human or little elf on the face of Hyrule, was affected by the curse as well. You could then enter her dreams there, only to find that she's dreaming of the Great Temple of her time... Except that unlike the past that actually happened, Ganon's curse transformed the temple of her memories into a temple that has fallen to the forces of evil. (That's why I had named it Zelda's Nightmare- The Fallen Temple...) Then, you'd have a fun time working your way through the Great Temple in reverse of the last time, finding the Golden Arrows as a dungeon item on the first floor, and then working up through the upper floors that undoubtedly had existed before time weathered it away... Eventually you'd find the boss, which as it's Zelda's nightmare would probably be a Phantom Ganon, and in the final room you'd find the uncrystallized Zelda, who would give you the Triforce of Wisdom's blessing, as I think that was the Gold Ring... But that's just me thinking, and everyone who knows me that my ideas always lead to trouble...

(If you haven't figured out by now that I actually put a good bit of thought into how these would work, and how to find ways to make them fit the game's storyline and maybe even have a bit of backstory in and of themselves, then I'll be like this... ... ... . Because as I said before, I can't use ZC to make my own quests... but just for the record here, that does NOT mean that I don't get ideas, or that they aren't good. It just means I have to rely on others who are gifted in using ZC to take my ideas and use them. I'm not intending to give offense, so please don't take any; I'm saying this to be honest, and so you know that I don't want my ideas dismissed out of hand... because only through talented quest creators and editors like yourself can any of my ideas ever see the light of day.)

If you can't make the Lens stop devouring magic, then yes, I think it's a great idea to keep it using rupees instead. And a magic doubler should be added as well... Maybe that could be the reward for the dungeon you're adding in the swamp maybe?

The Light Arrows are as powerful as the L6 sword, right? Piercing enemies too? At the point in the game now where you can get them, sure they're OP. But if you implement the fix you're thinking of now, it'll make getting the Light Arrows more of a curse than a blessing, much as pixcalibur said. There's a simple solution though... Make them a lot harder to get, and make it a later game item. (I remember that in Hidden Duality the Light Arrows were in the final final portion guarded by DeathKnights, and very well hidden. There's an instance of it NOT being overpowered...)

What I meant by the Silver Arrows being a vanilla upgrade was this; In the Ganon battles, what if you run out of magic for your arrows? Yes, you could also run outta arrows, but magic is more likely, and since with your current plan the Silver Arrows become regular arrows if you have no magic...

Glad to see you found a way to fix the boomerang.

... And that's about all. Oh, right, one more thing- I forgot to mention last time that there's a set of rooms in the Ruined Temple that will trap you if you enter them. They're on the site already- look for the one with a block puzzle there... That and the picture of link stuck after block pushing are the two rooms. Oh, and it's strange, but when fighting Megalodon, I could swear there's a Like Like stuck in his head. I'd have taken a picture, but I was too busy trying to stay alive. Again, great work, and see you later.
(Yes, I know I type a lot, and my posts are big. I also really don't care much at all. So sue me for being thorough. )

Edited by Umbra, 12 March 2013 - 05:18 PM.