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#16 KingPridenia

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 02:33 AM

HeroOfFire, is Super the first Randomizer where the Peril Ring is a requirement for defense rings? And to be honest, I still liked your scheme from Modern. I do agree with you on the race rule of doing them in order. Look at the Modern v1.1 race; Pixcalibur did the Lion early and ended up getting the Master Sword out of it (I consider the golden hilt sword to be the "True Master Sword"). As for the guy that did Super Randomizer, I think his name is Utorai. Thing is a Blue Ring just isn't enough for the extra content, not with enemies that can knock out a full row of hearts just like that. Either way, I'm hyped to see Knuckles continue to push through this. I'm a little iffy on the 5th quest dungeons though; they are pretty brutal, although I do approve of Lv 8 5th's gimmick and the one in Lv 4 4th.

 

Spoiler



#17 pixcalibur

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:34 AM

HeroOfFire, is Super the first Randomizer where the Peril Ring is a requirement for defense rings? And to be honest, I still liked your scheme from Modern. I do agree with you on the race rule of doing them in order. Look at the Modern v1.1 race; Pixcalibur did the Lion early and ended up getting the Master Sword out of it (I consider the golden hilt sword to be the "True Master Sword"). As for the guy that did Super Randomizer, I think his name is Utorai. Thing is a Blue Ring just isn't enough for the extra content, not with enemies that can knock out a full row of hearts just like that. Either way, I'm hyped to see Knuckles continue to push through this. I'm a little iffy on the 5th quest dungeons though; they are pretty brutal, although I do approve of Lv 8 5th's gimmick and the one in Lv 4 4th.

 

Spoiler

 

I think Peril Ring is before blue ring from Super on.  My LP's of Super and BS have me getting peril ring first.  Recording Outlands, where I actually was able to show this explicitly

 

Not a big fan of doing levels in super strict order.  I'm ok with doing all x-1's in any order before going into x-2's, etc.  Actually would be practical given I tend to get a candle in the Hook, which would be strictly after Hawk and Bomb.  Usually, you'll get your essentials in the x-1's and overworlds.  Wouldn't hurt me too much to prohibit stepping into later levels early on just for one item.  Got lucky in the race, as I usually get junk there.  And mind you, Melee got the same result in the Lion as I did.



#18 HeroOfFire

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 01:30 PM

Super introduced more item dependencies for spawning order. This means you get the Peril Ring first as a Blue Ring 0.5 (it was buffed to 2 hearts and should appear either in the Overworld or a lower level dungeon.), the Raft before the Flippers, and you need both the Bow and Arrow to find the Longbow or Silver Arrows. The Crossbow also needs arrows to be found. These cross-item group dependencies did produce some bugs, as those who played the first beta of Outlands may recall. Super even had a rare bug for a long time if you found bow, arrow, and crossbow locations in a specific order (fixed in 1.1 and BS).

 

Super also changed the secret expansion rooms in dungeons into 10 rupee rooms, since even with the dark room hints those were kinda hard to find. Some of those rooms still exist in Alpha, but the DMaps are arranged differently to use the 16x8 maps more efficiently, so some secret rupee rooms got cut. Though the final version of Alpha does include a different kind of secret.

 

I might have mentioned it before, but all the new dungeons sets are of my creation. 4th and 5th are obviously the entries from those competitions. Ex1st and Ex2nd were made as pseudo 3rd quests after looking at the unpassworded 3rd quest and getting ideas (there is a reason Ex1st has so many traps, that was the first one made). Both of those sets existed as standalone quests on Armageddon Games at some point. As a result, most of the dungeon design was balanced around getting items in a certain order. Notice how it takes until Ex1st level 5 before the ladder is required, and you can get to the item room without the ladder.

 

For those curious, the ladder was the item in Ex1st level 5, Ex2nd level 3, 4th level 3, and 5th level 4.

 

Also, Super has two other changes.

 

If a dungeon room was a more bombs location, the room will now contain an expansion-type item (instead of any item). This fixes certain dungeons spawning too many useful items (like 2nd quest levels 4 and 8). Later randomizers keep this logic, but sometimes there are more expansion locations than expansions, so a normal item could appear in one of them.

 

If a room spawns a random item when all the enemies are killed, that was where you would find a boomerang. All the boomerangs will now only appear in one of these locations. Note there are more locations than boomerangs, so those well tucked away locations in Ex1st level 7, Ex2nd level 7, or 4th level 7 may or may not end up being your last boomerang upgrade.

 

Finally, it isn't until Outlands where the Blue Ring and Peril Ring always appear early on. Eppy ran into this issue in both his Super and BS runs (especially the latter).



#19 KingPridenia

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 09:37 PM

Super introduced more item dependencies for spawning order. This means you get the Peril Ring first as a Blue Ring 0.5 (it was buffed to 2 hearts and should appear either in the Overworld or a lower level dungeon.), the Raft before the Flippers, and you need both the Bow and Arrow to find the Longbow or Silver Arrows. The Crossbow also needs arrows to be found. These cross-item group dependencies did produce some bugs, as those who played the first beta of Outlands may recall. Super even had a rare bug for a long time if you found bow, arrow, and crossbow locations in a specific order (fixed in 1.1 and BS).

 

Super also changed the secret expansion rooms in dungeons into 10 rupee rooms, since even with the dark room hints those were kinda hard to find. Some of those rooms still exist in Alpha, but the DMaps are arranged differently to use the 16x8 maps more efficiently, so some secret rupee rooms got cut. Though the final version of Alpha does include a different kind of secret.

 

I might have mentioned it before, but all the new dungeons sets are of my creation. 4th and 5th are obviously the entries from those competitions. Ex1st and Ex2nd were made as pseudo 3rd quests after looking at the unpassworded 3rd quest and getting ideas (there is a reason Ex1st has so many traps, that was the first one made). Both of those sets existed as standalone quests on Armageddon Games at some point. As a result, most of the dungeon design was balanced around getting items in a certain order. Notice how it takes until Ex1st level 5 before the ladder is required, and you can get to the item room without the ladder.

 

For those curious, the ladder was the item in Ex1st level 5, Ex2nd level 3, 4th level 3, and 5th level 4.

 

Also, Super has two other changes.

 

If a dungeon room was a more bombs location, the room will now contain an expansion-type item (instead of any item). This fixes certain dungeons spawning too many useful items (like 2nd quest levels 4 and 8). Later randomizers keep this logic, but sometimes there are more expansion locations than expansions, so a normal item could appear in one of them.

 

If a room spawns a random item when all the enemies are killed, that was where you would find a boomerang. All the boomerangs will now only appear in one of these locations. Note there are more locations than boomerangs, so those well tucked away locations in Ex1st level 7, Ex2nd level 7, or 4th level 7 may or may not end up being your last boomerang upgrade.

 

Finally, it isn't until Outlands where the Blue Ring and Peril Ring always appear early on. Eppy ran into this issue in both his Super and BS runs (especially the latter).

 

Yeah I remember watching him struggle in BS. Still made for an interesting involuntary challenge run though. And that item glitch, was that where Eppy got the "Kill All Enemies" item? Not sure about the boomerang upgrade stuff, but in my first run of Modern v1.0, I actually got all of my boomerangs in the Raft (started with Wooden, left with Light Boomerang). I can definitely say your 5th quest contest dungeons are HARD compared to the others. Doable, but certainly far above average difficulty. I do love a lot of your classic dungeon design, namely whenever you throw a passageway in at the entrance or in a room that you would otherwise assume has nothing in it. Again, my favorite is having passageways that take you somewhere other than the point of origin. For instance, say Room 26 leads to Room 43, but going back down Room 43's stairs takes you to Room 12 instead. However, probably my least liked of the older randomizer games' dungeons are Grave (I get lost somewhat easily in there, not sure why), Hourglass (too many dead-ends that give a mandatory perma-jinx without the ring) and Wizzrobe (probably the one dungeon I have the most trouble getting around in). Over time, Hourglass has become okay for me, mostly because I know how it works.

 

I should get around to playing Super before I have too many more of the 5th quest dungeons spoiled. See how I stand against your tricks. Hope you're enjoying Knuckles' LP.



#20 SCKnuckles

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:49 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=vjjwonakNSYPart 7 Arrows of every kind

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=e0F_PWHIbncPart 8  Overworld cleaning



#21 SCKnuckles

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 10:37 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=7K4_pNpWWXsPart 9 Still not getting any luck....



#22 SCKnuckles

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 10:52 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=NbJTf5I-nUUPart 10 Hunting and still hunting.....



#23 KingPridenia

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 10:58 PM

To be honest, at the rate you're going, you won't even need the Blue/Red/Gold Rings. You already have 16 hearts and luckily, nothing is super threatening yet. But once the heavy hitters start cropping up (Gold Wizzrobes, Super Darknuts, Blue Skulls, Silver Gibdos and Stalfos 3s), you'll probably have at least something. Besides, you're going to be hard-pressed to beat Eppy's record of 27 hearts before FINALLY getting a Blue Ring. Mine's 23. Then again, you have plenty of magic for firing whatever that gold crystal is. If memory serves, its power is based on remaining Magic and once it's down to 1/5, you don't use Magic, but it's slower and a good bit weaker. I do have to wonder if all of the unique weapons are considered "script weapons" for damage; Gleeoks normally ignore bombs but the Bomberman Bombs can damage them.



#24 SCKnuckles

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 12:56 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=imwle1fW1AMPart 11 Tricky Dungeons



#25 SCKnuckles

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:16 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=vyJwytariHsPart 12 BLUE RING!!!!!


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#26 KingPridenia

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:31 PM

 

That reaction to getting the Blue Ring was priceless. I don't think I ever saw someone THAT happy to get a defense boost before.



#27 SCKnuckles

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:09 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=l3zHe8hxN7IPart 13 Starting the Level 5 sets



#28 SCKnuckles

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 12:56 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=v1AHTwQJJmgPart 14 Nothing Impressive so far...



#29 SCKnuckles

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 11:01 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=Xi-cCTMAH1IPart 15 The end of the 5's



#30 SCKnuckles

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 11:20 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=FKYGZEet7tsPart 16 Start of the sixes




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