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Metroid Origins: Version 3.0-Help/Bug Reports


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#61 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 07:15 AM

That door is not bugged. I got caught there too, before the update even. I accidentally froze a enemy right over the door with the Ice Beam. Its the ice blocks that are causing you to get caught there. Just wait for them to melt.

As for when I disappeared when I fought the Queen...it was immediately after I entered the screen. I think it was triggered when it gave the boss' name. I couldn't move anywhere...I could shoot and hit it with homing missiles...but it could also hit me, so it ended up killing me.

For the optional super final boss...I was thinking either Metroid Prime (since Prime isn't canon to the regular Metroid series either), or the Metroid King...or some other creature of a experimental nature. (Although you also need something to guard the Hyper Beam...maybe the SA-X...could be in the same area). Instead of a barrier...maybe allow access to it whenever...but make this creature only damageable by the Hyper Beam. The area can be located somewhere in the ship in the Ice World. Maybe make it a small world in itself. I was also thinking maybe you could make a quantum key upgrade...that will unlock a warp to this secret area by normal warping means (like unlocking a new save point that you can't get to by normal means)

Storywise...this can be something they tried to genetically create, but could not control it...and did everything in their power to merely contain it. If Samus somehow manages to beat this thing....make this trigger the self destruct sequence....and make another escape route to Samus's Ship in the hidden area (May be necessary to make another ending trigger here) 

I got the idea for super bosses and alternative endings from Moosh's scripts. Since this one is technically secret...I think having both the Hyper Beam and Hyper Suit should be required to either defeat it, or at least reach it. I'd like to see what you can do to make a boss like this for Metroid. 

I'll update now and attempt the final boss again.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 02 July 2017 - 07:19 AM.


#62 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 07:58 AM

Ok...I've noticed numerous issues with your fixes for the final battles. One...yes Mother Brain respawns...but she doesn't attack until the glass case is opened (wasn't there some other things shooting at you besides her before? If not...you should add them. Remember the Rinka's from Metroid and Super...but even just two or three tiles firing at you would work)

Besides this....Mother Brain drops no energy when or ammunition when you defeat her...so defeating the Metroid Queen too is highly unlikely...

The third thing...the wall you opened to when you added the crumbling blocks...it stays opened. This means if you lose...you can just go to the right of the ship, and trigger the final battle. Two problems with this...one...you can skip motherbrain on re attempts. Not a bad thing if you want to leave it optional (actually since its the second time I defeated her...maybe that's why she didn't drop energy...but if she doesn't drop it at all....it makes a no death run far more difficult). The other problem is that the timer isn't triggered this way. So you can fight the Metroid Queen without the time limit.

Also something I noticed....what is that thing that appears when the Queen's wing's flap downward. It sorta looks like a grip reaper. Is it part of the mutation? 

Also...are the Homing Missiles stronger than the Super Missiles? I know the Plasma Beam is, but the diffusion missiles aren't.

The last time I played this there wasn't a story line ending, but it helped me figure out a alternative one. Maybe the alternative ending could indicate where that distress signal came from. Maybe that creature (the super boss) is what summoned Samus there to begin with...hoping for release from its seal, She said she felt otherworldly forces were involved...and that destroying the planet fulfilled the chozo's wishes. That creature would have been destroyed along with the planet so that makes sense. The ending could involve locating the source of the distress signal...being the super boss wanting to be freed...but Samus destroys it directly. Get my idea?

Metroid Queen...it took me a few minutes to realize it only took damage if you hit the body while the mouth is open, but I think I noticed a exploit. If you stay on the far right of the screen....it is far more likely to try to grab you with its mouth...and far less likely to use the laser...which is the one attack that's actually really dangerous, since it does the most damage and is really hard to dodge. I'm not sure if It was circumstantial, intentional, or a script error...but I felt I should point it out.

This completes my run. :)

 


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 02 July 2017 - 08:17 AM.


#63 Gendof

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:38 AM

Since the title of this thread includes the word "Help",

I'll ask for some.

I currently have the charge beam,power grip,quantum key, varia suit,morph ball and bombs, hi-jump, and speed boost.

I have opened one gate in the ice World (very cool world and great music) but haven't found whatever gate that is.

I am stuck...where should I go?

Thx



#64 ywkls

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

http://imgur.com/a/upOsz
 
finished the version you sent me. every item counted except for the xray. i checked after each pickup to make sure. didnt know what the stuff about duplicate items was about though.

 
As I noted in the PM, this is fixed now.
 
Also, the duplicate item thing was sort of a joke. A couple of items are visible from the elevators and could theoretically be accessed. I was just saying that they shouldn't.
 

Ok...I've noticed numerous issues with your fixes for the final battles. One...yes Mother Brain respawns...but she doesn't attack until the glass case is opened (wasn't there some other things shooting at you besides her before? If not...you should add them. Remember the Rinka's from Metroid and Super...but even just two or three tiles firing at you would work)

Besides this....Mother Brain drops no energy when or ammunition when you defeat her...so defeating the Metroid Queen too is highly unlikely...


One of those problems is an enemy editor one, the other a script-related one.
 
Those room shooters were set not to return after death, which is why they didn't show up again. That's fixed now.
 
Also, the script that spawns items is set to run only once. I can probably whip up an alternate version fairly quickly which will spawn items every time you beat it.
 

The third thing...the wall you opened to when you added the crumbling blocks...it stays opened. This means if you lose...you can just go to the right of the ship, and trigger the final battle. Two problems with this...one...you can skip motherbrain on re attempts. Not a bad thing if you want to leave it optional (actually since its the second time I defeated her...maybe that's why she didn't drop energy...but if she doesn't drop it at all....it makes a no death run far more difficult). The other problem is that the timer isn't triggered this way. So you can fight the Metroid Queen without the time limit.

 
The easiest fix for that is to make the secrets there temporary. This will only affect the screen directly right of the ship, not the one in the exit sequence.
 

Also something I noticed....what is that thing that appears when the Queen's wing's flap downward. It sorta looks like a grip reaper. Is it part of the mutation?

 
Nope, that was me forgetting that I'd left a section of tiles there blank for a reason. Fixed now.
 

Also...are the Homing Missiles stronger than the Super Missiles? I know the Plasma Beam is, but the diffusion missiles aren't.


Not quite. Homing Missile damage is 8, Super Missile is 10. I could theoretically scale Super Missile damage to increase as you get missile upgrades.

 

 

 

The last time I played this there wasn't a story line ending, but it helped me figure out a alternative one. Maybe the alternative ending could indicate where that distress signal came from. Maybe that creature (the super boss) is what summoned Samus there to begin with...hoping for release from its seal, She said she felt otherworldly forces were involved...and that destroying the planet fulfilled the chozo's wishes. That creature would have been destroyed along with the planet so that makes sense. The ending could involve locating the source of the distress signal...being the super boss wanting to be freed...but Samus destroys it directly. Get my idea?

 

That's actually a pretty good idea. I'll keep it in mind for Version 4.0, which would be when I implement the datalog feature. No telling when I'd get to it, though.

 

 

 

Metroid Queen...it took me a few minutes to realize it only took damage if you hit the body while the mouth is open, but I think I noticed a exploit. If you stay on the far right of the screen....it is far more likely to try to grab you with its mouth...and far less likely to use the laser...which is the one attack that's actually really dangerous, since it does the most damage and is really hard to dodge. I'm not sure if It was circumstantial, intentional, or a script error...but I felt I should point it out.

The choice of attack is strictly random, but it is also not the same as the last attack used. And yes, the body's defenses only drop either when the neck lunges or it fires a laser.

 

Uploading those fixes now. Did you test and see what happens on Game Over now? Since you're the only one who reported anything odd, I wanted to make sure that I'd repaired that glitch.


Since the title of this thread includes the word "Help",

I'll ask for some.

I currently have the charge beam,power grip,quantum key, varia suit,morph ball and bombs, hi-jump, and speed boost.

I have opened one gate in the ice World (very cool world and great music) but haven't found whatever gate that is.

I am stuck...where should I go?

Thx

Was this a Remote Access room, or a Security Terminal? The remote access rooms are all labelled with a letter and the rooms where they open up the way have a similar letter.

 

The Security Terminals mostly lead to a room labeled "Secure Access Point" in the lower part of the ship.


Edited by ywkls, 02 July 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#65 Gendof

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:51 AM

Level 1Terminal.



#66 ywkls

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:54 AM

Level 1Terminal.

 

Yep, there's no need to worry about that for now. You'll need to reach the level 2 and level 3 terminals before that one becomes relevant.

To do that, you'll need the Space Jump and the Phase Nexus (along with the items which are required to reach those).



#67 Gendof

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:57 AM

I figured I needed a lot more stuff, but I'm not finding anything anymore.

I can't get through the gate in the Hot Area past the Speed Boot blocks nor can I open the gate past the green gate near the ship'



#68 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:57 AM

I didn't delete my file yet. One last test for glitches coming tomorrow after updating. 

One other idea for the alternative ending...for a slightly happier ending...destroying the evil actually means NOT destroying the planet...and maybe getting some further insight from the Chozo as to what it was directly and how she saved everything from a great evil (the message after getting the Missiles gave me this idea. That warning felt like a chozo spirit speaking directly to her)


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 02 July 2017 - 11:58 AM.


#69 ywkls

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:05 PM

I figured I needed a lot more stuff, but I'm not finding anything anymore.

I can't get through the gate in the Hot Area past the Speed Boot blocks nor can I open the gate past the green gate near the ship'

 

Did you beat the Alpha Skree and open the hatch there? If not, there's a particularly tricky Shine Spark move in your future.

 

Edit: Shine Spark straight up from here.

 

d5IKPv8.png

 

 

I didn't delete my file yet. One last test for glitches coming tomorrow after updating. 

One other idea for the alternative ending...for a slightly happier ending...destroying the evil actually means NOT destroying the planet...and maybe getting some further insight from the Chozo as to what it was directly and how she saved everything from a great evil (the message after getting the Missiles gave me this idea. That warning felt like a chozo spirit speaking directly to her)

 

Not destroy the planet? Inconceivable! ( :bounce: )

 

I can certainly think of a variety of ways to do an alternate ending. One possibility that come to mind is that the Mother Brain which you face at the end was what guarded the true final boss (rather than just the exit). Then after beating the Hybrid Metroid Queen and boarding the ship, you somehow save the planet if certain circumstances are fulfilled.

 

As for the secret boss... maybe a souped up version of the Chozo Guardian which warns her to leave?


Edited by ywkls, 02 July 2017 - 12:09 PM.


#70 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:06 PM

I figured I needed a lot more stuff, but I'm not finding anything anymore.

I can't get through the gate in the Hot Area past the Speed Boot blocks nor can I open the gate past the green gate near the ship'

Ywkles, you should remove the fake wall to the second Ice gate. I can't imagine anyone thinking to shinespark thru such a obscure area with the fake wall tiles there. It was a secret power up before. Its a requirement now.

Start from the ship.

Go down to the next world.

Go left instead of the next save point. Look at your screen map...but not zoomed in...you should be able to see some tiles shaped differently...directly underneath of that...is just enough room to speed boost and shoot directly up (its literally right before the hill that would slow down your speed). If you went left and down the shoot in that area...it would lead you to what seems to be a plant barricade. 

So find that area...speed up...and shoot upward...Look at your screen map VERY carefully...those tiles are shaped differently...but it doesn't show if the map is zoomed in too much.

A suped of version of that guardian spirit...make it a unruly Chozo God. If its the source of the distress signal...it needs to be something sentient...but I was seriously thinking of something they created that could think for itself and they couldn't control. Metroid Prime or King Metroid fit this kinda well. (Again....MP series isn't canon so this could fit official timeline)


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 02 July 2017 - 12:10 PM.


#71 ywkls

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:12 PM

A suped of version of that guardian spirit...make it a unruly Chozo God. If its the source of the distress signal...it needs to be something sentient...but I was seriously thinking of something they created that could think for itself and they couldn't control. Metroid Prime or King Metroid fit this kinda well. (Again....MP series isn't canon so this could fit official timeline)

 

Or perhaps, it had been corrupted like Mother Brain by the Space Pirates but then neither side could control it which is why the planet was abandoned and everything locked down to begin with. Yeah, I can work with that.


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#72 chocobothief12

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:39 PM

was reading through the conversation and just wanted to put in my 2 cents for the metroid queen fight. screw attacking nonstop makes you invulnerable to all attacks. as far as attacking it goes, every bite attack allows for 2 missiles of damage, and the lazer gives enough time for 4. each of the queens attacks have a 2 to 3ish second delay before the next, so you can fire a missile preemptively, as long as the next attack isnt the 1-3 sets of fireballs. 

 

screw attacking like a madman is how i handle most of the bosses at the end game on 2xhp/damage lol



#73 Gendof

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 06:02 PM

Thanks, Epsalon.

I had seen those blocks but I figured I needed a double jump to get up there.

I haven't figured out how to shinespark upward, just to the side to pass through blocks.


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#74 ywkls

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 06:05 PM

Thanks, Epsalon.

I had seen those blocks but I figured I needed a double jump to get up there.

I haven't figured out how to shinespark upward, just to the side to pass through blocks.

 

It's a bit tricky.

 

You have to press down at just the right moment and stop moving right or left. If you do, you can then press up and dash to shine spark upwards. There's a spot near the Atomizer that's specifically designed for practicing it.

 

One feature some had requested was to make it where you press jump and a direction instead of dash and a direction. If this would make things easier, it's relatively easy to implement.

 

Also, that one spot is my only concession to mimicking hard-to-pull-off Shine Spark moves in the game.


Edited by ywkls, 02 July 2017 - 06:05 PM.


#75 Gendof

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 06:18 PM

Got it to work once in practice so far...boy, it's tough!




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