14 replies to this topic

[Plissken]

Ok, here's my biggest problem with ZC, it's seriously almost made me want to go use other game makers at some points because of it. I feel like ZQ needs aLttP scrolling, and I know there's a feature freeze and everything, but I'm kinda amazed this wasn't even worked on before the feature freeze.

Some will say, "But this is Zelda Classic, it's supposed to emulate Z1 and if we do that we'll be losing a lot of the feel of Z1." Ok...so what? Z1 (in terms of engine which is what I'm strictly talking about) is like the idiotic little baby brother of Z3. I feel that if there's ONE thing ZQ needs is aLttP scrolling, this whole one screen thing is getting to be just a pain in the ass. I also realize how much reconstructure this would require, but if you made it an optional thing instead of just replacing Z1 scrolling you wouldn't have to replace any rules or any misc. that applies to Z1 scrolling. I could seriously care less about any other feature they'll want to add post 2.5. aLttP scrolling is a must in my mind and I wanted to see what you guys think. Mainly, I just don't understand when people don't want it cause it'll lose the feeling of Z1, but I see Z1 scrolling as more and more of a handicap. Are people that connected to Z1 that if they don't scroll rigidly after moving to the right of one screen to get to yet another screen they flip or something?

I dunno, I just feel that this is a completely necessary part of the future of ZQ. Vote for your opinion.

[Colin]

The developers actually made a primitive form of it, but I think it was in a developer only alpha, and they never plan on releasing it... until the next version of ZC.

Yeah, I'd like it, but we aint goin' nowhere with asking for more features posting on PureZC, unless you already posted this at AGN.

[Fuzzy]

As much a I would love to see ALttP scrolling, the reality is that the main goal right now should be de-bugging. If we're really lucky, we could have 2.5 by the end of the year. Z3 scrolling pushes that back inordinatly long. At least a year. Heck, I personally think that scripting is a larger addition. I really hate to troll, but live with what you have, ok?

[DarkFlameWolf]

yeah, we have scripting, script your own Z3 scrolling.

[Plissken]

Couldn't even jman not get solid objects working with his Z3 scrolling script? Yeah, right, I'm gonna be able to script it. >_>

Also, this is NOT a "Z3 scrolling has to be in RIGHT NOW". This is a discussion on it and asking what others think about it. Please read my post in full before posting.

EDIT #2: I was kinda in a rush before but it seems like a have a tiny bit of time. Lemme give a full response to your post fuzzyman.

As much a I would love to see ALttP scrolling, the reality is that the main goal right now should be de-bugging. If we're really lucky, we could have 2.5 by the end of the year. Z3 scrolling pushes that back inordinatly long. At least a year. Heck, I personally think that scripting is a larger addition. I really hate to troll, but live with what you have, ok?

I said post 2.5 for a reason. I want a full release of 2.5 without more features, I'm just more amazed how there has been no (public) talk as far as I know of even attempting this. Yes, scripting is a larger addition, when I did say aLttP scrolling would be the biggest and bestest thing? Scripting is of course, but Z3 scrolling is a must in my mind. Live with what you have, I kinda thought you were joking when I read this line. If everyone did that I guess we'd still be working with the earliest version of ZQ and all of it's glory. No layers, no scripting, no item/enemy editor. Fun stuff.

Edited by Plissken, 23 August 2008 - 11:23 AM.

[Joe123]

The developers actually made a primitive form of it, but I think it was in a developer only alpha, and they never plan on releasing it...

Naw, it wasn't quite that.
jman made a basic script that could handle scrolling around on one screen, and loading the data from other screens to decide where things went.
The only problem is that once you scroll off the first screen, you have to re-script everything to get it to work correctly.

Couldn't even jman not get solid objects working with his Z3 scrolling script?

I'm sure jman would have been capable of doing it, it was just that the script was more to show that the system could handle it than to actually try and use it.
Re-scripting everything from scratch is not something that I think anyone would want to do.


Personally though, I don't really understand the fuss over it.
Sure, it'd be nice, but I can't see why it's that much better than just having discrete screens.

[CastChaos]

Yes, ALttP scrooling is needed and I tell you why black and white:

Altough ZC was originally intended to fully emulate The Legend of Zelda (LoZ/Z1), it already surpassed the LoZ standards and now does something downright natural/expected/needed: evolves. In what direction? ALttP, dammit! Now that we have all Z1 features we need to work hard to make ZC into something that has all ALttP features and mechanics coded exactly as it's in the ALttP rom, which practically virtually means that the new "1st.qst" must be the exact replica of ALttP, technical peak of 2D Zeldas, best Zelda in some people's opinion.

OF COURSE ALttP scrolling requires total new mechanics. So it can't be in 2.5, because then most already made beta features (and 2.10 features) should have been recoded. Why do I say this? With ALttP scrolling, the actual "room" is much bigger than a screen, nothing is set to a certain "screen/room". In ZC, you put down a secret trigger flag and so you choose the appropriate secret combo in the screen's secret combos menu. If the room are melted, then having the "each rectangle has own secret" thing would get primitive. In ALttP, all triggers are "singular" which means if you hit a switch, the nearby cracked walls won't collapse, since it's not like that the screen secret is triggered so all flags turn into their assigned secret combo. Even more, there are separate outer secrets set for each trigger: hit the crystal so the blocks lower, but if you pull a lever something other happens and these two things are by no way related. So, with Z3 scrolling, secrets can't be bound to the entire room or to its visible area, rather when placing a secret trigger flag, we need to set the X,Y coordinates of the other secret. Like, put a sword flag on the crystal, put a 'secret 16' flag on a block and set the block's X,Y coordinates of the block to the crystal. Effect: triggering the crystal's secret triggers the block's secret, too... but absolutely not because they are close to each other. In fact it's a bit like room state carry overs. I also know that it's probably not how it's coded in the LttP rom, there's probably a hardcoded global script for crystal=>block things. But I fear that would be too complicated for questmakers.

So, I just wanted to say, I want LttP scrolling, but not in 2.5 yet. "If evolving stops, so does life."

[Lemon]

Don't complain about something unless you are willing to put forth the effort to make it.

Sure you might not be able to script it now, but you could open up a few web pages and become knowledgeable in how scripts work, and, after a good while figure out how to do it . Demanding others to do it is kinda rude.

As previously mentioned, someone did make a script for scrolling, but to my knowledge it was only capable of drawing a picture behind the player instead of combos and the like.

[CastChaos]

Don't complain about something unless you are willing to put forth the effort to make it.

Sure you might not be able to script it now, but you could open up a few web pages and become knowledgeable in how scripts work, and, after a good while figure out how to do it . Demanding others to do it is kinda rude.

As previously mentioned, someone did make a script for scrolling, but to my knowledge it was only capable of drawing a picture behind the player instead of combos and the like.

I don't guess functional Z3 scrolling could be mady with a script or even with a series of scripts... As I mentioned above, we need to reform almost all features to form a base for Z3 scrolling, then make the actual "which part of the room is currently visible" code.

[link3505]

Obviously, I agree with this. As well, I share the same frustration as Plissken with it's lack of... being there

However, I did speak to DN about it a while back (In a somewhat unrelated conversation), and he mentioned that he does have plans to implement it, but not before 2.5 is released (If it ever will be)

And the lack of LttP scrolling is only the tip of a much larger problem building with ZC, in my opinion, but that's a rant for another time

[Plissken]

Don't complain about something unless you are willing to put forth the effort to make it.

Sure you might not be able to script it now, but you could open up a few web pages and become knowledgeable in how scripts work, and, after a good while figure out how to do it . Demanding others to do it is kinda rude.

As previously mentioned, someone did make a script for scrolling, but to my knowledge it was only capable of drawing a picture behind the player instead of combos and the like.

I guess already scripting means I don't try to learn how to script.

Demanding others to do it? I'm sorry I'm not a dev and all I can do is suggest features, and when did I demand it? I said in MY mind it's a must have. That is, in other words, my opinion.

[Lemon]

I don't guess functional Z3 scrolling could be mady with a script or even with a series of scripts... As I mentioned above, we need to reform almost all features to form a base for Z3 scrolling, then make the actual "which part of the room is currently visible" code.

I just recall seeing a youtube video of Z3 scrolling. Though, as I said, it was only capable of drawing a background, nothing more. Which means no combos, no unwalkables, essentially no game.

Plissken; devs are well aware of the idea to implement Z3 scrolling. When they figure out how to do it, I'm sure it will implemented, but as it is right now, I'd rather them finish up 2.5, which is hopefully near completion. Though I don't understand why it's a "must have", unless of course you want to use the bigger graphic. You can make perfectly fine game with the engine as it is.

[Plissken]

I know. I said post 2.5 for a reason. It's a must in my mind cause seriously, it's the last thing I want. It's seriously the only thing I could want in ZQ for myself. So in my mind, for my needs, ZQ could be perfect with this feature. That's why I really want it.

Also, don't forget the main idea of this topic was to see what others thought on implementing it or not and my argument for it. It all started with a debate on AIM about it and I thought a topic would suite it.

[Russ]

There are upsides to it and downsides. Personally, I don't care. If it were implanted, I might make a few rooms with it, but the majority would be simple Z1 style rooms.

[CastChaos]

There are upsides to it and downsides. Personally, I don't care. If it were implanted, I might make a few rooms with it, but the majority would be simple Z1 style rooms.

Please explain how the two camera mechanics would be in the same quest, rather say: in the same engine. Z3 scrolling can't be a lone script, then when you are standing in the corner between 4 rooms, which one's enemies would load? All of them? None could go out from the rectangle of its room, this way all enemies would be as easy as a gel, since you could stand in the nearby room and kill the other room's enemies from there. Unless one room's projectiles couldn't be loaded into one room from another, making this Z3 scrolling look mega stupid. Please understand: LoZ engine or ALttP engine. Can't be mixed.