30 replies to this topic

[Radien]

It's been a few months or so since I last asked this, or at least two months. New builds of ZC 2.5 have come out since then, so I'd like to hear some opinions about which build has had the best behavior when various questmakers among us have been using it. It's about time I upgraded DoR to 2.5, but I would like to be utterly certain I am not getting myself into a program that will bug up on some of DoR's most important aspects.

The build I am considering right now is build 777, largely because of jman. He has a reputation for stability among the development team, and he specifically said after releasing build 777 that ZC is now more stable than it had been in years (at least, after jman spent some time cleaning it up).

So, once again, I'd like to ask: what are some of the major bugs in recent builds, both fatal and non-fatal, and what builds do they apply to? What stable features are available in one build that aren't available in another?

For the record, I am currently using 2.11 beta 15. (This is not because it is the most stable beta I have on hand, rather, it's because beta 16 was less stable than beta 15, and that's the point where I decided to stop upgrading without due caution.)

[Russ]

Just use the newest build. Each one has fewer and fewer bugs, so the newer, the better.

[Moonbread]

Ehh, I use 731... hasn't really failed me yet.

And trusting the newest builds might not always work... I'm sure there could be an exception to the stable rule. Y'never know...

[Radien]

Just use the newest build. Each one has fewer and fewer bugs, so the newer, the better.

I checked the change log, so I realize they've been focusing on bug-smashing lately, but that doesn't guarantee that one bug fix won't trigger a major problem somewhere else. In fact, from what I know of programming, this happens quite often.

These sorts of things only become apparent after extensive beta testing, which is why I want people's hindsight rather than their predictions. Blindly trusting the next build is unwise, especially when you're dealing with Alphas.

[Mitchfork]

I would specifically recommend you not to upgrade to the newest build. It has an annoying tile editing bug that displays tiles being edited in the main palette, not the level palette of the screen. All in all, I'd say that if you are happy with the version you have no and don't require any scripting available in the newer builds, I'd stay right where you're at.

[nicklegends]

I would specifically recommend you not to upgrade to the newest build. It has an annoying tile editing bug that displays tiles being edited in the main palette, not the level palette of the screen. All in all, I'd say that if you are happy with the version you have no and don't require any scripting available in the newer builds, I'd stay right where you're at.

Ah, so that is a temporary. Thank goodness; I was worried.

I myself tend to use the most recent beta, but I constantly save my quests under new file names just in case it corrupts a file. So far, so good. *knock on wood*

[Radien]

I would specifically recommend you not to upgrade to the newest build. It has an annoying tile editing bug that displays tiles being edited in the main palette, not the level palette of the screen. All in all, I'd say that if you are happy with the version you have no and don't require any scripting available in the newer builds, I'd stay right where you're at.

Okay, got it, no newest build. However, I am not happy with the version I have -- combo cycling doesn't work properly and I do need scripting -- so I'd like to find a build that's earlier than the newest but later than beta 15 and 16.

Edited: I want something LATER than beta 15 and 16, not older. ><

Edited by Radien, 07 July 2008 - 08:58 PM.

[Schwa]

I'm with Russ. Newest build all the way. Reasons: Two. 1) If you're into computers or technology of any kind, like myself, staying current is a good habit to get into. 2) Eventually 2.5 will be finished, and you'll have to upgrade your game to that version anyway, so why wait?

The bugs will be fixed in time. Gotta have a bit of faith.

Edited by Schwa, 07 July 2008 - 12:19 AM.

[Bayta]

I actually agree with Schwa and Russ. The newer alphas have an auto-backup feature that makes a backup of your quest every time you save. So using that, I've been fine for a long time. I've only had one really bad experience with an alpha, and that was before the auto-backup feature. So I say stay current.

[Alestance]

I couldn't really help you with this. Its been almost three months and there hasn't been another Linux build. I'm using 794 right now.

[Moonbread]

I checked the change log, so I realize they've been focusing on bug-smashing lately, but that doesn't guarantee that one bug fix won't trigger a major problem somewhere else. In fact, from what I know of programming, this happens quite often.

These sorts of things only become apparent after extensive beta testing, which is why I want people's hindsight rather than their predictions. Blindly trusting the next build is unwise, especially when you're dealing with Alphas.

The three I focused on the most were 254, 509, and 731. I've gotten header errors before, and that's expected, and easy to prevent killing your quest if you just constantly do backups like I do, now. I recommend them to you, at least. 731 has been fair to me in Triforce of the Gods, too =) I can pretty much do everything I'd like to do with 731 for it, and I've rarely ran into any problems.

[Joe123]

I liked 743 personally.
The only real issues I find with the latest version are those to do with the tile editor though; otherwise I can't see much against it.

[SpacemanDan]

I'm always upgrading. As long as you have a back-up in a stable, working build, you should be good, right?

[Purplemandown]

777 is very stable. I've got it and 819. HOWEVER, if you are going to be editing tiles in any pallette other than Pallette 0, don't use 819. Tile editor pallette bug...

[Radien]

Okay, a few things...


1.) I'd appreciate it if you'd not refer to the latest release as "the newest build" and instead refer to each build by number. For instance, the latest build at this moment is 819. We can't talk about bugs in specific builds unless we make it clear which we're talking about.

2.) Every build has bugs. Even more importantly, different varieties of bugs. Some bugs are thought of as major to one person and unimportant to someone else. For instance...

777 is very stable. I've got it and 819. HOWEVER, if you are going to be editing tiles in any pallette other than Pallette 0, don't use 819. Tile editor pallette bug...

...This sounds absolutely horrible to me. That alone is enough reason for me never to use build 819. Now do you all understand why I am being cautious?...

3.) Upgrading to the newest build and then continuing to upgrade every time one is released is NOT an option I will consider. When each build is released, I am treating it as though it might be the last I ever use. Why? Because we have been waiting years for a new stable beta, and if anyone wants to get anything done, we have to work with what we've got. When I upgrade, I want to plan as though I will be using that build until DoR's final release. If something better comes along, then great. But if it doesn't, then I'm not left hanging for months and months to come.


Anyway, moving on...

I'm always upgrading. As long as you have a back-up in a stable, working build, you should be good, right?

If I start working in a build and find out one month later that it has a crippling bug I can't work around, then that means I would have lost one month of work. So... no, I don't want to find out how stable a build is purely by experimentation. I'd rather research the pros and cons of each release.

The three I focused on the most were 254, 509, and 731. I've gotten header errors before, and that's expected, and easy to prevent killing your quest if you just constantly do backups like I do, now. I recommend them to you, at least. 731 has been fair to me in Triforce of the Gods, too =) I can pretty much do everything I'd like to do with 731 for it, and I've rarely ran into any problems.

Thanks Moonwhisper. This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for.

So, what bug-free support do those versions give to combo cycling, scripting, and custom enemies?

I liked 743 personally.
The only real issues I find with the latest version are those to do with the tile editor though; otherwise I can't see much against it.

Okay. So, are 743's tile editor bugs as bad as 819's?... Also, have you tried 777? How does it compare to 743?



Anyway, thanks for everyone's feedback so far. I'm sorry if I'm a little grumpy when people suggest that I start following the latest builds, but the stability of the progress I've made on Dance of Remembrance is something I guard with the utmost of care. I already have to remake two custom bosses because of upgrades, and I want to do my best to avoid having to backtrack that much again.