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Hey everyone. Have a question to anyone who is interested.

Quest Idea Help Proposal

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#16 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:45 AM

People are often very reluctant to collab unless it's with people they know and trust very well. Collabs are complicated, and nobody wants to get into the Lost Isle situation again. I generally avoid collaborating with people even though my main current quests are either collabs or started out as collabs. 

 

That said, it's extremely difficult to make an ambitious quest alone. I did both Souls of Wisdom and Shattered Courage solo with almost very little feedback, and this shows as both quests suffer for it.

If you're lucky to have 'quest staff' you can trust, you'll do so much better. Currently my projects are group efforts in a way in which I am the main quest creator and designer, but I have a handful of beta testers and advisers and script designers who also provide feedback whenever something just doesn't work or mesh as well as intended. I can't explain why I'm fortunate to get all this help, but I'd guess it's because people are showing good faith in my commitment to keep pushing forward. It wasn't hard for me to get this support because I guess I was already making something that people can back and put their reputations behind.

However, if I was just throwing a random quest idea out there and expecting people to get behind me, it probably wouldn't work out very well for me (even if the idea at surface feels very promising and well explained). The problem is, if I randomly approached it this way, I'd have a difficult time to prove that I'd even have the capabilities to follow through with my own promises and ambitions, and I feel this is one of the biggest issues that most quest designers here have because many quest designers simply cannot even comprehend just how much commitment a large and ambitious quest demands. For me, already making Souls of Wisdom and Shattered Courage (as flawed as they are), already gives me experience in how much of a commitment these quests already are.

 

I'd suggest aiming for a mini quest first, just as a means to prove to yourself that you can finish a quest, and then consider looking into collabs or group efforts into the more ambitious projects you may have. 


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#17 metalnerdmikey

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 01:25 PM

People are often very reluctant to collab unless it's with people they know and trust very well. Collabs are complicated, and nobody wants to get into the Lost Isle situation again. I generally avoid collaborating with people even though my main current quests are either collabs or started out as collabs. 

 

That said, it's extremely difficult to make an ambitious quest alone. I did both Souls of Wisdom and Shattered Courage solo with almost very little feedback, and this shows as both quests suffer for it.

If you're lucky to have 'quest staff' you can trust, you'll do so much better. Currently my projects are group efforts in a way in which I am the main quest creator and designer, but I have a handful of beta testers and advisers and script designers who also provide feedback whenever something just doesn't work or mesh as well as intended. I can't explain why I'm fortunate to get all this help, but I'd guess it's because people are showing good faith in my commitment to keep pushing forward. It wasn't hard for me to get this support because I guess I was already making something that people can back and put their reputations behind.

However, if I was just throwing a random quest idea out there and expecting people to get behind me, it probably wouldn't work out very well for me (even if the idea at surface feels very promising and well explained). The problem is, if I randomly approached it this way, I'd have a difficult time to prove that I'd even have the capabilities to follow through with my own promises and ambitions, and I feel this is one of the biggest issues that most quest designers here have because many quest designers simply cannot even comprehend just how much commitment a large and ambitious quest demands. For me, already making Souls of Wisdom and Shattered Courage (as flawed as they are), already gives me experience in how much of a commitment these quests already are.

 

I'd suggest aiming for a mini quest first, just as a means to prove to yourself that you can finish a quest, and then consider looking into collabs or group efforts into the more ambitious projects you may have. 

Yeah, trust me, I know that feel. I appreciate the response and advice. Im slowly learning mroe and more about the capabilities of the current build and plan to really start working on it and grinding when i feel like i know enough, but as of today, almost everyone ive shown or talked to has been drawn to it so i know it has some immense potential. You sound like your are pretty much on par with how I feel like id approach this. If you are interested in more of the idea and wanna know specifics just PM me and ill tell you the plan of attack. So far so good though, the attention and help im getting is REALLY awesome.



#18 James24

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 09:56 PM

A wise man once said "Alliances are built on cultural similarities and mutual advantage". 

 

The first thing you must do is ensure that each of your team members share the same vision as you do of what is "good and fun Zelda".  Some players like brutal, insanely hard and very difficult games and they'll break all the quest making rules to ensure they get that difficulty.  Others like easy to no difficulty at all, lots of puzzles, secrets, exploration and a long and lovely storyline.  If your team doesn't share the same vision as you do, then its doomed from the very beginning.

 

Even if you have a team which shares that vision, each team member must see that it is clearly to their advantage to remain in the team rather than going it alone.  Even if your vision is shared, no one likes taking orders from a boss.  There must be some clear advantage to doing so rather than going it alone and making their own quest.  What can you offer that is so special and compelling that other quest makers would take orders from you?  That's something that you'll have to think about and if/when you come up with a solution, ask yourself whether you would take orders from someone else if you were presented with that reason.


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#19 metalnerdmikey

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:15 PM

Yeah I would. If the idea itself was great, but thats just me. I dont have an ego when it comes to these things. And having Project management experience in the past doesnt help either. In fact, its kinda flipped on you since you would give me advice on a project that you would assume im going to be a "boss" over. Its more like "heres an idea, lets see what we can all do with it", instead of "This is my idea, lets get it done" kind of mentalities. I agree that a shared vision must be given, but in a project that can have something for everyone, it rarely becomes an issue unless its the person running its fault for not specifying just how open they are with the people involved (which if you message me ill tell you exactly what the approach is). I appreciate the advice, hope what i just said doesnt come off as snobby or rude cuz thats not my intention, but as someone who has produced and project managed musicians in a band before (and im currently on around 7 or 8 who have gone on to be successful themselves) it couldnt be much worse than working out the kinks with 5 dudes in a van who all hate eachother. What I will admit is I dont know much about the current engine build and whatever knowledge I had in the past is gone since its been so long, but come this weekend when I actually get the time to sit down with it im sure Ill get to know it well. I think the more I talk to people in this awesome community (you included) the more ill understand in how to format the plan that gets everyone working together. Right now im just planting seeds brother, and anyone who catches on will be welcome for the ride, and I hope many do. Even if its just little pieces of advice because I dont forget kindness, or at least I try to make it a point to not to. For instance, if already written down and saved the names of everyone who has given me some advice and info on the engine/tileset and whatever and if this sees the light, they will at LEAST have a thank you credit in their respective area of expertise. In the last few days after posting this I managed to pitch the idea (albeit more specific) to an orchestral composer/artist, skeptic at first,as he should be, but now we are talking about what kind of vibes each area will give and boss fight styles. Id say my pitch is pretty good once you message me to find out.

Again, thanks. if you have any more advice for more specific things, dont shy from jotting it down. Ill take anything I can get, I am a sponge.



#20 Lüt

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:38 PM

The problem id have with referencing anything is that everything ive seen (so far) has been on the lighter side, which is ok. As I said a barebones skeleton look for a project just to work with game ideas and mechanics would serve just as well so no definitive direction is really needed right now (unless someone comes along that actually has the talent to make it) so all i can really relay (in reference to this community and its assets) is just an overall "darker" look. I saw some graveyard tilesets and decrepit forests/dungeons ones before but I dont remember where I saw them but they were for sure ZC assets.

Yeah, I was getting more at general art styles when I said "referencing" - things like amount of colors, shading method, level of detail, saturation, perspective, and so on. Brightness is a quick adjustment after all that.

I know a few tilesets (or loose tile collections) offhand that have the things you're talking about. Not sure how well they'd all combine though.

As for scrolling, screen by screen is fine with me, but scrolling would make for better boss fight potential and bigger sprites, not to mention works better with the idea of area affect like item-spells.

That's true, but even among the most stubborn ZC supporters, the point eventually comes where we have to admit you're best off looking at another program if you really want a specific feature that's so far outside its base scope, and scrolling is one of those few instances.

Stamina and Magic bars being separate is a possibility, but one workaround idea I had with that is that stamina (magic bar) correlating to attacks and dodge rolling (if it can be done) and magic affecting the actual vitality of a player, kindof a high risk high reward kind of mechanic, the worlds story idea has to do with souls much like in the dark souls series only souls not only benefit the player to increase stats (or in this case hearts, and certain equipment level ups) but benefit the player my increasing their vitality (hearts or hit points if it can be done that way) to actually use and cast the item-spells.

As of the ZC 2.55 alphas, you can give items a Life cost (part of a new drop-down "cost" selection menu) instead of just magic cost, so you could have both magic-as-stamina items alongside items that drain vitality/health. I would suggest using those with extreme caution though.

In fact, 2.55 allows up to 25 "Custom" cost categories, so you could likely use those for new kinds of meters. The problem is getting them to show up in the subscreen. I'm not even sure support for displaying such custom meters there has been added yet, so repurposing existing systems is still your best bet. For example, in the event you were going to do away with the money system and the shops that come with it, even 2.53 has a checkbox for "use rupees instead of magic."

I even had the idea to replace scrolling boss fight scenario with screen transitions acting as boss "phases" in some way. Let me ask you this, is there a way to load multiple quest projects at the same time? Like lets say I have 3 loaded in tandem. First one plays through and acts as its own "cinematic" data set, then moves into actual game content, and then the third would be like end game choice different from another game choice to play out an ending. I know know there is limits to how much data and map you can make in one project, unless im mistaken.

Loading multiple quests really isn't a thing. Think of this like a Doom engine that can only load IWADs, not PWADs, if that's what you were getting at.

Screen-transition bosses were a big thing back in the 2.10 days, but 2.5's scripting system largely negated those. It's still possible to do them, but since they were generally done with combos and item triggers instead of actual enemies, the bosses weren't much more lively than Doom 2's Icon of Sin.

For the music stuff, in my discord ive turned off repeated notifications so if you happen to join up i dont think it would overwhelm you, youd just have to check in to see if some new stuff is posted but id make just a music section to talk about tutorials and stuff, id show you some any way you want anyway, be it thru DM here or there, whatever works for you, and in response to how much youd help, ANY amount would be fine. Ill take what I can get.

Yeah you know what, just send me the Discord link. I'd completely forgotten what a pain it was writing long-assed posts like these.

It's not a matter of program sounds - people can enable or disable those on their end. It's just that there's already servers I lose track of for weeks, if not months, at a time. So as long as you're aware that's my level of "commitment" and don't mind, we're good.



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