64 replies to this topic

[NoeL]

Wow, I'm glad I got to this topic before it was closed. As I'm sure you all know, I love a bit of religious biffo.

Yes, the bible is a good book, it's full of killing and gore and is pretty cool to read. On the other hand it's full of a lot of morals people would benefit from living their lives by. On the third hand (of some three armes alienoid) there's a supernatural element to it that seems more or less utter nonsense to all those that werent brought up to beleive it.

Ok, my 2 cents... Religion and science can't entirely co-exist. Religion has been proven wrong by science many a time, yet since religion is "the word of God" and aparantly infallible, we have a contradiction.

Religion was invented as a science, a way to explain the unexplainable. From that it became a set of moral teachings, and as far as I'm concerned that's how it should stay, and shouldn't be tainted by crazy notions of an all powerful being. It's just stupidity.

[Limzo]

This is what I believe:

God MADE the big bang happen.

God MADE the moon crash into the earth and whatnot.

Adam and Eve were the first humans to EVOLVE from ape.

As you can probably tell it continues from their. I think you could call the way I believe Diplomatism.

[NoeL]

I disagree. All the things you attibute to God... why? Why do you feel the need to attribute such things to an intelligence that doesn't seem to exist? Why can't you accept that these things just ARE, and have no intelligence behind them? They're the work of Mother Nature.

[Hunter P Brown]

Jeez, I look at this topic, and what ShadowTiger said to prevent keeps on happening. Just drop the whole religious debate, and if you can't help but do it, take it to PM or Instant Messenger or something, but not here. It is not needed here, as it always ends up in a flamefest. This is to discuss the bible, not to discuss everything else.

Last Warning, by the way.

[MarioBrosCom]

I wouldn't just pick up, read, and believe a random Bible from the library; I only believe what's written my own religion's Bible (which is, the original, Orthodox Christian one)...

[Siguy]

I've never actually read the Bible. I don't practice any religion. If I do ever read the Bible, I'll probobly stop at the end of the old testament.

[Sparkrulean]

O_o well than... I apologize for haivng poorly chosen thoughts. I shall go reform my opipion and change my way of looking at things so it better fits your needs and is more organized .

Im trying to figure out how 2 people found my post insulting considering I said nothing agaist them or their religion, or them... I kinda just said what Hero Link did more or less.

Though I agree taht lithos is a bad stance to take on the subject, I can see where his post isn't all that bad. I agree that he was trying to insault the Bible in that post, but if you think about it.. it isn't that much of an insault... Most nursery rhymes try to teach some sort of moral, like the Bible. ((But I'm not sticking up for either of y'all.))

Yes, the bible is a good book, it's full of killing and gore and is pretty cool to read. On the other hand it's full of a lot of morals people would benefit from living their lives by. On the third hand (of some three armes alienoid) there's a supernatural element to it that seems more or less utter nonsense to all those that werent brought up to beleive it.

Ok, my 2 cents... Religion and science can't entirely co-exist. Religion has been proven wrong by science many a time, yet since religion is "the word of God" and aparantly infallible, we have a contradiction.

Religion was invented as a science, a way to explain the unexplainable. From that it became a set of moral teachings, and as far as I'm concerned that's how it should stay, and shouldn't be tainted by crazy notions of an all powerful being. It's just stupidity.

Actually.. The Bible as a whole has never been discredited. There is too much involved for your statement to be true. More that 90% of the Bible is historical facts. I'm also nearly positive that nothing in the Bible has been entirly proven wrong by science. ((In order for that to happen, the principals and ideas must be tested.. And since we cannot test the principals they cannot be disproven.))

Religion was invented as a science, a way to explain the unexplainable. From that it became a set of moral teachings, and as far as I'm concerned that's how it should stay, and shouldn't be tainted by crazy notions of an all powerful being. It's just stupidity.

This part makes me think that you really don't know anything about the Bible. Okay.. The Bible wasn't an invented science, it was a documentation of 'the word of God'. A lot of The Bible is dedicated to talk of the all powerful being. Heh..

I think what you want to do is quote a philosopher.. ((On of the pre-socratics, I am sure)) "Religion is the opiate of all masses" ((I think that is right)) Meaning: Religion is the ultimate idea; for the weak minded who are afraid to stretch away from reality and think outside of the box..

I love philosophy.

Edited by Sparkrulean, 29 September 2006 - 06:31 PM.

[Animus01]

Though I agree taht lithos is a bad stance to take on the subject, I can see where his post isn't all that bad. I agree that he was trying to insault the Bible in that post, but if you think about it.. it isn't that much of an insault... Most nursery rhymes try to teach some sort of moral, like the Bible.  ((But I'm not sticking up for either of y'all.))
This part makes me think that you really don't know anything about the Bible.    Okay.. The Bible wasn't an invented science, it was a documentation of 'the word of God'. A lot of The Bible is dedicated to talk of the all powerful being. Heh.. 

I think what you want to do is quote a philosopher.. ((On of the pre-socratics, I am sure)) "Religion is the opiate of all masses" ((I think that is right)) Meaning: Religion is the ultimate idea; for the weak minded who are afraid to stretch away from reality and think outside of the box.. 

  I love philosophy.

Hey, that quote you have there isn't mine! Anyway, let's just lock this post. It's starting people up in a religion vs. science controversy.

[Papa]

I usually don't involve myself in religious debate. But, I went ahead and read all the posts in this thread. And then re-read them. Then, I started my response about three times, and kept scrapping it. Finally, I went back and found the post that kept running through my mind. For, when the truth of the matter is in plain sight, there is very little more to say. And the simple truth of the matter is:

Well, seriously, we should be careful of what we say around sensitive topics.

'Nuff said.....

~adomlee~

[NoeL]

I'm gunna defend my viewpoints here, which will probably lead to topic lockage. Hunter P, you'll probably say posts like this are straying from the topic, but I don't see any better place to do it. If someone tries to make a topic solely for religious debate, it'll get locked in an instant, so we have to side-skirt.

Though I agree taht lithos is a bad stance to take on the subject, I can see where his post isn't all that bad. I agree that he was trying to insault the Bible in that post, but if you think about it.. it isn't that much of an insault... Most nursery rhymes try to teach some sort of moral, like the Bible. ((But I'm not sticking up for either of y'all.))

Actually.. The Bible as a whole has never been discredited. There is too much involved for your statement to be true. More that 90% of the Bible is historical facts. I'm also nearly positive that nothing in the Bible has been entirly proven wrong by science. ((In order for that to happen, the principals and ideas must be tested.. And since we cannot test the principals they cannot be disproven.))

This part makes me think that you really don't know anything about the Bible. Okay.. The Bible wasn't an invented science, it was a documentation of 'the word of God'. A lot of The Bible is dedicated to talk of the all powerful being. Heh..

I think what you want to do is quote a philosopher.. ((On of the pre-socratics, I am sure)) "Religion is the opiate of all masses" ((I think that is right)) Meaning: Religion is the ultimate idea; for the weak minded who are afraid to stretch away from reality and think outside of the box..

I love philosophy.

90% of the bible is historical facts? This may be true for the new testament, but certainly not the old. The majority of bible stories from the OT are considered fiction because they have no historical evidence to support them. As for not being entirly proven wrong, I think they've been proven wrong as best as possible. Classic one; the Earth is 10,000 years old! Clearly it's older than that, but of course Christians will say "yeah but what if the world span SLOWER back then? Then it could be true!". This it wrong, because plant and animal life wouldn't have been able to survive in the freezing night or the scorching day for so long, yet we have plant and animal remains from 150 million years ago. To me, that's a part of the bible that has been proven wrong.

And I DO know about the bible, but I was talking about RELIGION, not the bible. The BIBLE is word of God, GODS were invented to explain natural phenomenon (therefore, they were the science of that era). Science has grown enough to discredit these earlier ideas, yet religion still exists. Why? I can only vouch for Christianity here because I don't really know any others well enough.

The answer has been stated before: morals. The Bible teaches good morals, so why get rid of it? It's good for the community. In fact, have you ever wondered WHY it's so good? Isn't it a great coincidence that how God wants people to behave runs right in check with how the COMMUNITY wants people to behave? Wouldn't this world be a crazy place is one of the Ten Commandments was "Thou must kill thy neighbours wife, or daughter!" Society would crumble, it'd be anarchy with everyone killing wives to please God. In my opinion it's highly plausibe that the government and the church worked together to help improve society, and the Ten Commandments of God were infact invented by man himself! (oh! The controversy!)

Quoting a philospher than favours your side is a bit lame, because I could just as easily find one that favours my viewpoint (which I'm not going to do). I think that philosopher is dead wrong anyway. Seeing as the majority of people are religious, wouldn't it be thinking outside the box NOT to follow blindly, and steer away from religion? Every Christian I know was brought up as a christian. Almost every atheist I know didn't have a religious upbringing. I think it would be incredibly hard for someone to turn atheist, because that means that you've been taught lies your whole life. Clearly it would take a strong minded person to give up their faith. On the other hand, my parents (Catholic and Anglican, both religious) decided not to raise us kids Christian, instead putting it in the hands of God to show us the path. My mother was very pleased to see me reading the bible, but of my 21 years of live I haven't seen one shred of evidence to support the existence of God. I read the bible trying to find proof, I talk to christians about their experiences, and WHY they believe in God, so that I myself might recieve the holy spirit. So far all I've found is a whole lot of nothing. It seems that before you can witness God, you have to truly believe he exists... in other words, God is a placebo.

[Lemon]

Im tempted to just let this thread die instead of bieng locked and bumped by this post, but Im kinda annoyed that people are interpetting my words as offesive... In my first post I wasent insulting the bible, just comparing it to what I thought was the most similar analogy for the point I was making... wether you want to accept that or would rather belive that I was purposfully insulting you than feel as insulted and put off as you want.

On topic though my opipion is the same... although I would like to elaborate on one thing, which is considering what the bible says to what it originally said. Its been around for some 1960 years or so (it wasent til after Jesus died and some time after that til they dieceded to write it down as I recall), been translated numerous times, been rewriten numerous times, been through numerous hands of human biengs, and in all of that, I have to wonder how many times someone thought to themselves "this could be improved", or "I dont agree with this... gone". When you think of the Monarchys and goverments of those times you have to admit its quite a large possibilty that someone would edit the bible to raise their status and such.

[Animus01]

Wouldn't this world be a crazy place is one of the Ten Commandments was "Thou must kill thy neighbours wife, or daughter!" Society would crumble, it'd be anarchy with everyone killing wives to please God.

- Offending comment removed -


"Slurs" are comments that seek to insult a large group of people through a flippant or over-simplified comment. Please be careful and considerate of whomever might be reading your posts, whether you think they're listening or not. Thank you.

Edited by Radien, 01 October 2006 - 01:49 AM.

[Lemon]

Well, seriously, we should be careful of what we say around sensitive topics.

- Offending comment removed -

O_o... you sir lose 2 points. I normarlly would care less agaist minor jokes like that, but when you ***** about me for comparing the bible to mother goose, than say something like that... well... people like that really really piss me off. The fact that about 30% of the population are like that doesnt help much either.

Edited by Radien, 01 October 2006 - 01:46 AM.

[Animus01]

O_o... you sir lose 2 points. I normarlly would care less agaist minor jokes like that, but when you ***** about me for comparing the bible to mother goose, than say something like that... well... people like that really really piss me off. The fact that about 30% of the population are like that doesnt help much either.

Slip of the tongue.
I hear too much news about Al-qaeda and people wanting to blow themselves up for Allah, and it gives me that reflection. Truth is, there are a lot of Christians who don't act who they are, either. A lot worse than me, I can say. It's just what people do that just make me say bad stuff about them. I have been around MANY Christians and I have only seen, probably a couple, who actually act like Christians.

[Lemon]

Slip of the tongue.
I hear too much news about Al-qaeda and people wanting to blow themselves up for Allah, and it gives me that reflection. Truth is, there are a lot of Christians who don't act who they are, either. A lot worse than me, I can say. It's just what people do that just make me say bad stuff about them. I have been around MANY Christians and I have only seen, probably a couple, who actually act like Christians.

There is a faction of Christians somewhere in America... dident hear where exactly that are training kids to have near insane faith in Christianity to the point where they are willing to do what suicide bombers and other maurders do... it was almost sad watching those kids bieng trained. Poor souls.

The idea of acting like a christian itself is streched though... some people feel that in order to be a true christian you have to follow bible word for word, while others have looser ideas toward it. I honestly think if you just use it as a guideline youre fine. There are some parts of the bible that proaboly shouldent be interpeted word for word as well... I cant remeber them at the moment but I remeber there bieng at least 3 samples of rather unp.c. ideals stressed in it. The bible was written in a different time.