75 replies to this topic

[SpacemanDan]

I guess we've got different opinions on the whole matter than.

Lost Isle was definitely the hardest ones I've played of hers (well, other than HDDX and WSDX on hard, and the third quest in Origin, which I believe are made simply to try to kill you. A lot.), so I see where you're coming from.

I've cleared most of her quests thus far, and I have to say, they're not that hard. At least, not compared to LI. But I think they've got a fair challenge, some with a rather unique way of challenging the player. (Ganon's Claim is definitely a challenging quest simply because of a small twist in it regarding health.)

[Shoelace]

DFW, you are a great designer. So I know either way it will be a good game. But there is one thing that you need to work on in my opinion, and it is something I have been focusing on since HoD:

In your games, you sorta just throw your player into a place and not tell them what to do. The one big thing in your quests that I didn't like is I feel lost in them. And you could want that, however, it is a bad kinda lost. I always look past this because the rest of the game is good, but I do feel lost all of the time in your games.

You want to have clues and want a player to have a sense of direction in the game. You don't want them to just be in an overworld and find things on their own, specially when things don't make sense. People find things by trail and error, and that should never be the case. You want to direct players, and have them know what they are doing before they even do it. In the Lost Isle, I felt clueless and confused the whole time. I like puzzles, but you should always have the puzzles make sense.

[lightdark]

I would like it if you toned down the difficulty just a little bit.
Im not sayin you have to make it easy just dont make it as hard as LI

[nicklegends]

I think it's smart not to let the player explore the entire game world from the beginning. Starting small and building upward is naturally how events should progress. Also, don't constrict the players' movement too much in dungeons. If I recall, some of your quests have really tight corridors.

However, refrain from using words like that, Lemon

Are you serious? The word "dicks" is a problem on this forum, now?

[Geoffrey]

One thing I have to say is: The sword in LI was easy to find, I got it within the first 3 minutes of gameplay in the first place I looked.

Also, a way to deal with "difficulty levels" is once you're finished building the quest, copy the file, go into the new one, and decrease all the enemy's damage/health by 25% or something like that.

[Moosh]

I personally would like to see some more depth in story. Something more creative than the cookie cutter "Zelda has been kidnapped by Gannon, go save her." story that most quests have. I think you should also use an overall quest gimmick, for example in one of my quests (that I didn't finish and probably never will), I made it so that all Link's items consumed rupees. In another quest, I had the enemies not drop any rupees but rather made link collect them in dungeons so he could buy the hookshot and access the final dungeon. I think that whatever you decide to put into your next quest, it will be another addition to the already outstanding series of quests you've made!

[catfriedrice]

I personally would like to see some more depth in story. Something more creative than the cookie cutter "Zelda has been kidnapped by Gannon, go save her." story that most quests have.

I agree. Some of my favorite games for different systems are those who's boss isn't the traditional one (like SNES's Super Mario RPG), but I'll take it a step further. I like surprises. Take the final boss and make him something I would never expect. It's how I'm building my game. I'm not impressed with something (take Spirit Tracks) were you've got someone who looks like they don't belong, acts evil, and within 2 minutes of meeting him/her are 95% sure they're gonna be one of the final bosses/bring about the final boss.

[DarkFlameWolf]

Due to some circumstances in my real life and my priorities for family and life must come first, I am postponing indefinitely my two Zelda quests I was working on. Thanks for all who have helped me thus far to get my next quests off the ground, but I must deal with what is more important now. Furthermore, I do not believe I could make anything anymore that could live up to expectations of those who play my quests. Sorry for letting everyone down.

[SpacemanDan]

Sorry to hear... I really do hope you can get everything sorted out in your life. Best of luck.

[Geoffrey]

Same, I'm sad to hear that you're quitting these. Just putting this out there though, I prefer older-styled quests, they're what brought me to ZC in the first place.

[Peteo]

Sorry to hear, Wolfie...

Also, a way to deal with "difficulty levels" is once you're finished building the quest, copy the file, go into the new one, and decrease all the enemy's damage/health by 25% or something like that.

I like the idea of an "easy version" of a game, but not before people have tried to play through the normal mode the way the game is supposed to be played.

That's what I'm planning to do with Lost Isle 2. It's going to be a challenging game and at first there will be no easy versions of it, but as time passes and more and more people complain about getting stuck, then it's finally a time to release an easy version. And of course a hard version for those hardcore players.

[Geoffrey]

That's what I'm planning to do with Lost Isle 2. It's going to be a challenging game and at first there will be no easy versions of it, but as time passes and more and more people complain about getting stuck, then it's finally a time to release an easy version. And of course a hard version for those hardcore players.

That's a good idea, but I'd probably just stick with the normal difficulty.

[Sheik]

Sorry to hear, Wolfie...
I like the idea of an "easy version" of a game, but not before people have tried to play through the normal mode the way the game is supposed to be played.

That's what I'm planning to do with Lost Isle 2. It's going to be a challenging game and at first there will be no easy versions of it, but as time passes and more and more people complain about getting stuck, then it's finally a time to release an easy version. And of course a hard version for those hardcore players.

Why does almost nobody try to have Nintendo-canon-diffculty? Thousands, if not millions, of people play Zelda games with Nintendo-diffculty and they like it. There always are people, who say that it's too easy, thus I can see where the wish of a hard mode is coming from; think "master quest"-versions: first normal diffculty, than increased; but why would you do it the other way round (first hard, than normal/"easy")?
I also can't really understand the "try to play through the normal mode the way the game is supposed to be played"-argument, it's fearing people away from playing the quest, and no questmaker wants to do that, do we?
I mean, it's your cup of tea, of course, but I felt like sharing my two rupees cents.

[catfriedrice]

I figured, if you want it to be difficult, personally take away aspects of it. I beat Zelda OOT with 3 hearts no continues, even though the game didn't make a setting for it, I just avoided all heart containers. I enjoy games like this where the challenge lies in not just a setting, but what I can do/avoid/remove to make more interesting.

[Peteo]

Why does almost nobody try to have Nintendo-canon-diffculty? Thousands, if not millions, of people play Zelda games with Nintendo-diffculty and they like it.

Well yeah, that is true. It's very unfortunate that people these days are so impatient and have such short attention spans... That's why the majority seems to like easy, simple games that do not challenge you and frustrate you. That's Nintendo's way of doing games, but I personally hate those kind of games so much.


catfriedrice: Yeah it's true that in Zelda games you can make the game more challenging for yourself if you just completely ignore all the heart pieces and good items, but what's the fun in that? i like exploration and looking for those heart pieces, but it's pointless if the game is way too easy.


I'm not going to change my quest design philosophy and make games that I don't like to play. It's true my game design philosophy scares some people away, but so many people loved MMDWR and Lost Isle despite their difficulty that there clearly is an audience for those challenging games as well.


And my intention is not to hijack Wolfie's thread, but I just felt I had to respond to thse comments.

Edited by Peteo, 26 March 2010 - 11:29 PM.