75 replies to this topic

[Mani Kanina]

What makes a quest good is not overall use of new techniques. Sure, new stuff can add on for a better experience, but it's sure as hell not all.

You also seam to imply that DFW should make completely new bosses and as far as I know you would have to script to do that. And I'm quite sure you know that not everyone is cut out for scripting so one should really not expect this. One should also not expect anyone else to make scripts for ones project in the first place. (Unless it's like, a group quest.)

The quest I'm making for example will without doubt be the best of it's kind in the data base simply for the reason that no one thought about designing a quest around that sort of gameplay. (at least as far as I have seen.)

One should strive to make a quest as fun as possible using the means one self prefer rather then trying to use the snazziest futures.

[/M/]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ng2MhZkGhZU

Done with no scripting, along with every custom boss in that game.

What makes a quest good is not overall use of new techniques. Sure, new stuff can add on for a better experience, but it's sure as hell not all.

Didn't say that, did I? I knew that someone would take me out of context, as that is what usually happens. I was listing the factors a game can have that will grab the attention of others. New features can grab attention, but it was the last thing I listed because the greatest quests I've played were done before the new features. (As I previously listed.)

Edited by /M/, 11 March 2010 - 06:20 PM.

[SpacemanDan]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ng2MhZkGhZU
Done with no scripting, along with every custom boss in that game.

But it was never released, right? If it was, my bad, and be sure to send me the file! And I mean no offence to the creator.

If one focuses too much time on trying to be 'different' and 'innovative', the task can become daunting and will feel more like work than fun And myself, the minute I see this hobby as work, I quit. Because I do this for fun, nothing more. At least, that's how I see it. I like both ways of doing things, personally. I'm working on an old-school quest, and I have a much different idea of a quest in mind as well.

Man, has this topic de-railed or what?

[DarkFlameWolf]

Well, if I do make custom bosses, since I'm no artist, it'd probably involve the same sprites as the original ZC bosses, they'd just...act different. LOL

Like Ganon in Origin, he uses all the same tiles he normally does, but he goes all ape$hit crazy on you. lol

Edited by DarkFlameWolf, 11 March 2010 - 06:31 PM.

[lucas92]

/M/, I could tell that you made that with no scripting because the movement is not smooth at all... I'm pretty sure making a boss with Zscript is easier than your method... whatever it is.

What I would not like to see is a quest where you don't have a single clue where to go and you get stuck and frustrated. Also would not like to see too many enemies on the same screen. That's pretty much it.

[/M/]

/M/, I could tell that you made that with no scripting because the movement is not smooth at all... I'm pretty sure making a boss with Zscript is easier than your method... whatever it is.

...

I didn't make that. If you only looked at the profile account (ShadowTiger) or title you would have known it wasn't me. Good job. Either way, that was done in ZC 192. Yes, the movement of course is not smooth at all, but it was made before scripting wasn't even implied to ZC. But even though the movement was unsmooth, it was still enjoyable.

[Alestance]

Well, if I do make custom bosses, since I'm no artist, it'd probably involve the same sprites as the original ZC bosses, they'd just...act different. LOL

Like Ganon in Origin, he uses all the same tiles he normally does, but he goes all ape$hit crazy on you. lol

Then, please consult Jman about This Aquamentus. You're hard core fans will be glad you did, as no one else has that Aquamentus as of yet.

[Sheik]

Well, if I do make custom bosses, since I'm no artist, it'd probably involve the same sprites as the original ZC bosses, they'd just...act different. LOL

Like Ganon in Origin, he uses all the same tiles he normally does, but he goes all ape$hit crazy on you. lol

Oh, that might actually be quite a fun thing. I remember how OoS's Aquamentus was similat to LoZ1's one and I remember liking that a lot =). Well, the Ocrale games had recycled almost all Z1 bosses and it was fun to play. Recylcing bosses is a good thing in my eyes.
Edit: Reclying does not mean rusing, but acutally reinventing, here.

Edited by Sheik, 12 March 2010 - 10:14 AM.

[Peteo]

Come on guys, let Wolfie do what she wants to do. You are just asking too much from her! Simple quests are her thing and she's good with those.

Don't let Lost Isle fool yourselves. It's an amazing quest which uses many of the new features and does it well, but that's because she had help with the quest. Without help it would have just been another ordinary everyday Zelda adventure with boring enemies and bosses.

And don't understand me wrong. Wolfie is a great questmaker, but a very limited one. She does have great ideas but she cannot use the program to its fullest extent and she also isn't great with dungeons and graphics. When she gets help with those, then she'll have an awesome quest for you! But when she works alone, it's too much to expect anything more than a basic Zelda adventure. So if you want to see another quest with Lost isle quality, help her! Make her graphics and cool scripts to use and she'll deliver!

Me? I'm not working with her anymore ever again! When two big egos collide, things will get too nasty.
However, I will be making Lost Isle 2, with or without her permission. Why? Because there were things I wanted to do with Lost isle 1 but didn't have the permission to and there's just too big of a demand for a sequel to just forget about LI2. All it takes is a ZC 2.5 and I can finally start working on it.

Edited by Peteo, 12 March 2010 - 08:21 AM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Come on guys, let Wolfie do what she wants to do. You are just asking too much from her! Simple quests are her thing and she's good with those.

Don't let Lost Isle fool yourselves. It's an amazing quest which uses many of the new features and does it well, but that's because she had help with the quest. Without help it would have just been another ordinary everyday Zelda adventure with boring enemies and bosses.

And don't understand me wrong. Wolfie is a great questmaker, but a very limited one. She does have great ideas but she cannot use the program to its fullest extent and she also isn't great with dungeons and graphics. When she gets help with those, then she'll have an awesome quest for you! But when she works alone, it's too much to expect anything more than a basic Zelda adventure. So if you want to see another quest with Lost isle quality, help her! Make her graphics and cool scripts to use and she'll deliver!

Me? I'm not working with her anymore ever again! When two big egos collide, things will get too nasty.
However, I will be making Lost Isle 2, with or without her permission. Why? Because there were things I wanted to do with Lost isle 1 but didn't have the permission to and there's just too big of a demand for a sequel to just forget about LI2. All it takes is a ZC 2.5 and I can finally start working on it.

No, she's asking what people don't want, and they're responding accordingly. No one has said that she HAS to exclude (or include) anything suggested in this topic, but telling people to stop saying what they truly feel would render the topic pointless

Personally, I don't play too many quests, but DFW's quests rarely disappoints, and I doubt any future quests will. I'd actually like some easier quests though. Personally, when something is so hard you have to ask others for help, it's too hard.

[DarkFlameWolf]

Peteo is right about one thing, help me out, and I will deliver on a good quest. LOL But as history shows, I still have to be production lead. I can't take a back seat to making my own quest, so if you're helping out, don't expect to get much of a say in how the quest should go. We all know how well that turned out with Peteo. We no longer want to work with each other!
Regardless, Migokalle is right, I am taking all these ideas into consideration but I am far from utilizing all of them. But I will address the major concern I see through all these requests and make my future quests a bit easier. Traditionally, my quests have been hardcore, but I can scale that back a bit and make it challenging yet reasonable.

Speaking of which, were any of my existing quests challenging yet reasonable?

Edited by DarkFlameWolf, 12 March 2010 - 01:53 PM.

[SpacemanDan]

I thought your quests were always pretty good on the diffiulty level. I've never found them too hard, really. Most of my deaths are from stupid mistakes on my part, or trying to take on more than I could handle to try to get some goodies early on. That sort of thing.

[Joe123]

The most impressive part about that boss is that it's made in 2.10. Using ffcs in the new builds you can have smooth movement without using scripting.

ShadowTiger didn't make the boss though anyway, Sabotage Dragoon is by C-Dawg from AGN, I've not seen him post here much.

[Dawnlight]

Simplicity is definitely something I like when playing quests. With the exception of the Hero of Dreams, I enjoy quests that are just plain fun without the trouble of adding complicated elements into it.

[Mani Kanina]

I thought your quests were always pretty good on the difficulty level. I've never found them too hard, really. Most of my deaths are from stupid mistakes on my part, or trying to take on more than I could handle to try to get some goodies early on. That sort of thing.

I'm going to go a head and disagree with this post.

Now, excuse me, I have only played origins and Lost Isle (as in quests by you) and the first quest of origins was fine (I did finally beat zelda 1 yay!) the 2nd quest was quite hard and had some unfair parts. But it might be hard to judge you on this as it was designed to be like zelda 1 and not your preference.

Lost isle on the other hard was way to hard for me. I could deal with the high damage monsters and it taking forever to kill others, but once you died theres a lot of backtracking to do. And I did die a lot, eventually it was just not fun anymore. Shame, as it was a great quest in every other aspect.

However, making it easier would piss off other players that want it hard. So a solution would be to have a easy and a hard mode. Easy mode could simply be hard mode but monsters that deal 2+ hearts deals half an heart less and monsters that deal 4+ hearts deals one heart less. And if hard mode does not have it, make sure easy mode have it so you start with full health when you die.

Obviously, even this solution is not the only one! One could work around it by having multiple paths through the game. Some area easier while others are harder. Just make sure it feels more rewarding by taking the hard path if that's the case. For example: some snazzy tools earlier on that the "easy" player can get in another location that is easier a bit further into the game.

But I leave it up to you on how you want to do that. As long as there is fun for both type of players in there I don't mind! :D