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TS Chronicles the Legend of Zelda Series


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#121 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:02 AM

I hate that equipping an item/changing items forces the game to recalibrate the Motion Plus sensor, wouldn't it have been nicer if it simply didn't? They could have made it just let the player manually invoke recalibration without any forcing of it at all as you spend a lot of time fixing up the angle the controller treats as neutral. Maybe have Fi warn you every 15 minutes to remind you to recalibrate it yourself instead of forcing it?

 

I found the swimming controls rather excellent to be honest, I seriously can't understand why people don't like it :/

 

The Sky was extremely under utilized in this game, even more so then the ocean in Wind Waker in my opinion. It is extremely empty aside from a bamboo mini-game, sky diving mini-game, pumpkin farm and the main town (That is less interesting then Wind Waker's). Sure there are also chests to find but... that's all. Flight controls are excellent though and I enjoy the music while flying.

 

I really like the Silent Realm portions of the game, they are really good fun to solve :)

 

I also agree this game has the best amount of dungeons that I don't consider dull or boring, but damn it Fi, stop pointing out the blatantly obvious with statistical probabilities.

 

I love pretty much everything else except The imprisoned and the final time you're supposed to visit that Volcano area. The Imprisoned doesn't change enough each refight and is slow and boring. That final visit to the volcano area? I felt it was way too simple and they could have fleshed it out more with even more of your gear dispersed around the place requiring you to find them (Coulda done it for Hero Mode at least).

 

I believe you can skip cutscenes after having watched them once, just like how it functions in Twilight Princess/Metroid Prime etc.


Edited by franpa, 24 August 2013 - 08:04 AM.


#122 Avaro

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:41 AM

"Ghirahim is a servant of the Demon Lord, a flamboyant and intriguing new character. "

 

Ghirahim is the Demon Lord. :P

 

I thought Demise is the demon lord.

 

I quite enjoyed the review of Skyward Sword. Sad that it was the last game already! I'm looking forward to hear what you think about ALBW, but only after I finished playing that game myself. I think this next game won't have a helper, so there will be nobody who states the obvious and Link will be lonely I guess :D



#123 The Satellite

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

No, Shane's right, fixed that. Anyway, it's good to be at the end of this, for now. It was a fun ride, and an opportunity to finally play all the Zelda games I missed and the rest as well, and be able to do it in under four months. Could have gone faster, but distractions happen. Guess there's not much left to do except maybe discuss the games here, and... I'll be back in November. :blah:
 

I do want to ask you something, though. I'm assuming that when "A Link Between Worlds" comes out, you'll do a review on it after playing it, but what about Wind Waker HD? Yeah, it's a remake, but they're changing some things around to fix problems people had with it before, and they're trying to fix the Triforce hunt. (YAY!!!) Do you think that if you play it, you'll do a review on it on whether the changes are enough to justify the remake?

 
A Link Between Worlds, yes. Wind Waker HD, no. To be honest, I played Ocarina of Time 3D for my chronicle, but restricted my review to points exclusive to the N64 version. Wind Waker HD would be mostly the same in that respect, so there won't be a chronicle for that; there'll only be chronicles for complete games, and none for remakes.
 

EDIT: Also, do you realize that when you described the Silent Realm challenges, you pretty much described Pac-Man? Just replace Guardians with Ghosts, and Tears with Power Pellets.


Not really... You can't kill Guardians after all. :P
 

That final visit to the volcano area? I felt it was way too simple and they could have fleshed it out more with even more of your gear dispersed around the place requiring you to find them (Coulda done it for Hero Mode at least).

I dunno, I liked that part. I feel like if there was more, it would have just felt really really crammed and wouldn't be as fun, so they made do with what they had. And I enjoyed it.
 

I believe you can skip cutscenes after having watched them once, just like how it functions in Twilight Princess/Metroid Prime etc.


Only in Hero Mode, which is dumb. :-/



#124 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:06 PM

1) A Link Between Worlds, yes. Wind Waker HD, no. To be honest, I played Ocarina of Time 3D for my chronicle, but restricted my review to points exclusive to the N64 version. Wind Waker HD would be mostly the same in that respect, so there won't be a chronicle for that; there'll only be chronicles for complete games, and none for remakes.
 

2) Not really... You can't kill Guardians after all. :P

 

3) I dunno, I liked that part. I feel like if there was more, it would have just felt really really crammed and wouldn't be as fun, so they made do with what they had. And I enjoyed it.
 

4) Only in Hero Mode, which is dumb. :-/

 

1) Well you could have a link to your review of the original product followed by a paragraph or 2 touching on the new changes in the remake.

 

2) But you CAN reset them to their starting positions, which is what you essentially do in Pac Man!

 

3) It's not neccessarily bad, I just felt underwhelmed by it :/

 

4) oh, okay. Haven't touched the game in a while.



#125 The Satellite

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:23 AM

Made a rankings video, thanks to the list I was keeping in this thread. Thought I'd shamelessly plug it here. :heh:



#126 Haylee

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:30 AM

*Looks at description.*

 

you forgot the CD-i games



#127 Shane

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

I already pointed that out on chat to TS. >.>



#128 coolgamer012345

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

You ranted about all the zelda games, What are you going to do now?



#129 Avaro

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:27 PM

You ranted about all the zelda games, What are you going to do now?

He's going to make a quest that fixes everything all the zelda games did wrong !! (no, actually not :D)

I think we'll now have to wait for the next zelda.



#130 coolgamer012345

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:30 PM

Or Skyward sword 2 that I am making :tard: .... Ok not really but your probably right avarto.



#131 The Satellite

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:48 PM

Nah, these weren't rants. These are. There might have been some rantish aspects in some of these chronicles but they weren't really rants. Many of them were more gushing than ranting anyway, lol. As for what's next... Well, I'll chronicle the next Zelda games that come out, starting with A Link Between Worlds, which thankfully is only three months away, but it will take longer for each of those.

 

I did have an idea for a new "series" to do after this: "Ocarina of Time Versus." Since a lot of sources tend to claim Ocarina of Time as the best Zelda game, I wanted to take it and another game in the series, then compare their strengths and weaknesses. If people are interested in that, I'll probably go through with it.



#132 The Satellite

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:17 AM

A Link Between Worlds
 

Since this is a new game and I didn't warn about spoilers in the opening post, I'll warn you about that now, and added a spoiler warning to the opening post. Now would be the time to stop reading if you're concerned about spoilers. Know that, in the future, when I chronicle new games like I am now, there'll likely be spoilers in each one, assuming I pick them up near their release date. And now, on with the chronicle.

 

So it's April 2013, and Nintendo releases a Nintendo Direct. In this Direct, they reveal the existence of a brand new Zelda game in development for the 3DS. Said Zelda game is marketed as a sequel to A Link to the Past, using an updated graphics style based on the original game, a traditional top-down perspective, and a new mechanic where Link could become a painting and merge into walls. Sounds great, right? Well... I was skeptic. I was afraid the painting gimmick would be overused, and... well, I wasn't so sure that reusing the same world would make it as interesting to me and other veterans familiar with the original. I also was worried about the amount of dungeons, as I wasn't sure if they were only going to be using the Light World or not. Then when they showed us the Dark World, I then feared the puzzles would be repetitive with A Link to the Past.

 

But more info kept coming in, new features, completely new dungeons, the "Dark World" was a place called "Lorule" with its own characters, the painting ability used in new and exciting ways. There were some other things that made me a bit skeptic, sure, like the idea of renting items (and later buying them) and the item gauge that depleted every time you used an item, but there were other neat features as well that helped keep it seem exciting, and I was sure that I would still get a very enjoyable experience out of the game no matter what.

 

In the end, which side of me won out: The apprehensive side or the optimistic side?

 

Guys, A Link Between Worlds come out of freakin' nowhere and punched every Zelda game in the face. Except A Link to the Past, who is currently locked in a battle to the death atop Death Mountain. We'll check back at the end of the chronicle to see who survived.

 

So yeah, game starts off with pretty high praise already. Allow me to explain why. ... I mean, it wouldn't be a chronicle if I didn't.

 

A Link Between Worlds does have a bit of intro stuff, setting up the world and your story, and it's a slight nuisance admittedly, but very quickly the game lets you loose and it's a forgotten thought. And it doesn't drag on nearly as long as most other games in the series tend to do. So, points for quickly dumping you into the adventure. Then, it goes out of its way to encourage nonlinearity by blatantly giving you no specific order, letting you choose which order to go in. In the past, some games had the door open for picking your own path, but there was still a designated order. There's no such order here. There's only a couple of times a "level order" comes into play, ignoring each world's castle: Eastern Palace must be done before any other dungeon, and, in a more questionable design choice, Desert Palace can not be done until Thieves' Town is completed, as the sage is trapped with the sand rod you need to complete and even reach the dungeon. This I have to raise an eyebrow at, as the sage doesn't even need the sand rod at any point, and just takes away from the freedom of doing any dungeon in any order, which is untrue; you cannot start with Desert Palace or end with Thieves' Town in any run due to this. Kind of a letdown, especially after how much the game promised full openness, but in the end isn't too disappointing, because overall it's still a great first step for the series.

 

What allows this open freedom is the rental shop, so let's go ahead and talk about how that works. Well then again, I'm sure we all know how it works by now. Ravio is a guy dressed as a bunny that takes up residence in your house to open a rental store, where you find nearly every item in the game. You can rent them as you please, but you lose them if you lose a life. Later, you're given the chance to buy them for a really high amount of rupees, and you won't risk losing them. I was skeptical about it too, but to be honest, I tended to forget about the system entirely as I played along. It was really natural, even if it wasn't difficult to obtain them all for good. I won't comment on difficulty, I always find that difficult (no pun intended) to discuss as I feel like I've learned a lot from playing all the other Zelda games, so of course it will seem easier in comparison. I will say that I never died (not counting fairy revives), but it definitely leans on the little more difficult side especially compared to the last few games in the series. Relative, of course. I won't say it's a hard game, but again, it's hard (still no pun intended) to discuss that; it just feels like years of experience with the series will make games seem easier is all.

 

But yeah, the item rental system works, and, with a bit of tweaking, would actually fit in quite well with the series. Some refinement could make it work great. I think it works well enough for this entry, and I don't mind too much the fact that you don't find them in dungeons because they still hide a few objects in there that aid your quest. It doesn't really take the fun out of it, and honestly it feels great being able to go anywhere at any time. I'm still a fan of earning your way around though, but I'm also a fan of this. I can go either way. I wouldn't mind the traditional system popping up again, but I also wouldn't mind if a more-refined version of the item rental idea became the standard. Other games have similar systems and use it well, Zelda should be able to as well.

 

Related to the items is a new character: Mother Maiamai. Who actually resembles an octorok but with a small seashell on her head. She has 100 lost children, tiny Maiamais that you must find and return to her. Each time you bring her ten, she upgrades an item for you. Find all of them, and you get the massively-overpowered great spin, which doubles your spin attack range and increases its power. It's a fetch quest, but it's welcome, in my opinion. Gives you reason to explore the world and find the little guys, though with less arbitrary requirements than, say, Ocarina of Time's Golden Skulltulas. It's fun and gives more depth to the game.

 

One last point related to the items is the item gauge, the meter that depletes when you use an item or walk along the walls. It works in some ways, but in others I still scratch my head. In the end it was never really a hindrance to me, though I still think it would've worked better with only magic-using items, such as the rods. The boomerang doesn't need to use it, and bombs and arrows really ought to have just stuck with ammo. In the end, again, it turns out fine, but this is just my personal preference. It doesn't bring down the game, but I hope it's something they don't reuse in the future, or at least refine to take care of some of the complaints. At least we got something sorta similar to a magic meter back, I guess? 

 

I guess I should talk about that painting ability, considering that's the whole gimmick of the game... Well, it's actually really neat. It feels natural and they manage it well in navigation and puzzle-solving. Not a ton to say about it other than that it works really well, and though I doubt we'll ever see it again, I honestly think I'll miss it in the future. That's how you pull off a good gimmick.

 

As for the overworld, they transitioned it beautifully and managed to change up a couple of things. It's mostly identical, with some new buildings or features replacing old, familiar areas. It's not a ton of change, but seeing how things changed, how new people live in old areas, and even how some geography and caves are rearranged is pretty refreshing. Even though I knew the world inside and out, it was neat to go into an old cave expecting what was there in the past, only to get something different. The most major changes are the House of Gales where the ammo upgrade fountain used to be; the minigame area south of Kakariko where the library and, well, more hills used to be; the Lost Woods is completely redesigned, though more simple admittedly; and the west side of Death Mountain is completely new. There are a few other mostly negligible cosmetic changes as well, though I do like the extra bit of land added to allow you to reach the blacksmith and the forest just to the left of Hyrule Castle easier and more quickly. The one disappointment I have is that the Zora area is really, really underwhelming, and by that I mean it's just one room. A little larger area would've been nice, but I was otherwise pleased with the overworld.

 

That's just Hyrule though. But what about its counterpart, the punny Lorule? Well, it's mostly similar to the Dark World we know and love, with some exceptions. Firstly, it's divided up into sections rather than being completely open. A minor nuisance when you have full freedom on the mind, but makes sense in story context. You reach Lorule through various cracks in Hyrule, but you can warp from place to place using the game's travel system, more on that later. Skull Woods gets a redesign, while Lorule Death Mountain is more or less similar to the Dark World's counterpart. The path to the Palace of Darkness is completely new, and is a fun, if not simple, stealth mission. Misery Mire works in tandem with Hyrule's desert to create a neat puzzle. The Pyramid of Power doesn't have a counterpart, instead having Lorule Castle in its place. Hyrule and Lorule both are a pretty good taste of familiar worlds returning, but with some changes to make things both expected, and a surprise. It's a good balance.

 

The warp system in this game is both great and another of my minor gripes. Saving in this game is accomplished once again by going to a statue and saving, instead of just pausing and saving anywhere. I don't understand it, but statues aren't hard to find. Actually, the statues are weather vanes, just like the one from A Link to the Past where you awaken the bird. You meet an apprentice witch early on named Irene, who gives you a bell to ring when you need to fly somewhere. You press the bell button on the touch screen, select a destination, and Irene will give you a ride. The minor gripe is the dialogue whenever she (and later only her broom) appears. It's just unnecessary after a while; I've read every line too many times, she really ought to have just remained silent after a certain point, preferably early. And, in the period between her abduction and freedom, did "..." really need to pop up every time her empty broom appeared? The first time makes sense. Every other time? No. But that's minor; the system is very handy, and makes finding a save point even easier, if you're not close enough to one already. It would've been better without dialogue popping up all the time,but at least dialogue moves fast in this game. Which, by the way, is another plus to this game.

 

Now, about the dungeons... which really are among the series' best. They seem to be a blend between the traditional method of each room being its own screen and the DS games' method of every floor flowing together. A healthy balance, honestly, though I must wonder about having the map the whole time instead of earning it. Sure, it was fine in the DS games, but in this game, I don't see why we didn't have to earn the map, or let rooms fill in as we enter them, like in A Link to the Past. I would be fine if the map and compass were combined again like in Skyward Sword, which honestly I wouldn't mind if that became the standard. But I guess the compass is handy enough too, so again, minor complaint. As for length, they're for the most part shorter dungeons, about on par with A Link to the Past in general, though that doesn't make them less challenging. Other than one or maybe two, actually, I think they're a tad shorter, but they're quite fun, full of tricks and puzzles that actually stumped me a couple of times until I eventually figured them out. It's a good feeling. Each dungeon in the game either shares a theme with an A Link to the Past counterpart, or the name. Apart from House of Gales, which is unique and based on wind and Tornado Rod puzzles. Palace of Darkness and Turtle Rock share only names with their predecessors, with new unique themes: Palace of Darkness uses darkness as a puzzle, where no light illuminates new paths, and Turtle Rock is... a turtle-shaped fire dungeon. Turtle Rock in this game was fun and made me think, but I don't feel it's as strong as the other dungeons, nor its A Link to the Past predecessor. Otherwise, dungeon design in this game is great. The Swamp Palace in particular shows how to make a water dungeon based on the classic theme of changing the water level right in 2D, with excellent design and gorgeous water effects. Thieves' Town plays with your expectations and includes a frantic escort mission, but the girl you're escorting is not Blind this time. Skull Woods takes its original gimmick and improves on it, and includes puzzles involving Wallmasters, which is one of the greatest ideas in recent Zelda history, right up there with Timeshift Stones. The Ice Palace in the original game was one of the best dungeons for sure, and Ice Ruins in this game, curiously swapping places with Turtle Rock, is also fantastically solid. The Desert Palace makes a surprise return, and is much more challenging and thoughtful than the original, though I suppose that's not hard to do. Really, other than Turtle Rock, the only dungeon that I think is easily inferior to its original A Link to the Past predecessor is the Tower of Hera, though I still can't say if it's because I watched it played through in a demo, or if it really just wasn't that fun. But regardless, the dungeon offering is very solid, with Hyrule and Lorule Castles as midway and end dungeons, respectively.

 

Heck, you'll even stumble on little "minidungeons," where you have to solve various puzzle rooms with certain items to obtain some money. Actually, this game has a lot of fun little things to stumble upon, like different minigames and a good mix of easy-to-find and well-hidden heart container pieces, though I'm not fond of the requirements for two of them regarding specific minigames. Screw you, Rupee Rush... Really, there's a lot of depth to the world, and it's not all recycled either.

 

Oh, and the dungeon bosses are a mix of old and new. Returning from the original are Moldorm, Helmasaur King, Arrghus, Blind, Kholdstare, and Trinexx. Moldorm plays out mostly identically to its A Link to the Past counterpart, only it's larger, slower, it doesn't knock you back as far, and falling out of the arena doesn't restart the entire battle. Arrghus is also pretty close to his original form, with a couple more differences; the smaller bari are now eyeballs ala Vitreous, and while he launches them at you, they don't expand in a ring anymore, which would've made it a more interesting fight, but the added laser attack in the second phase makes up for it a little. Where things get different are with the other four returning bosses. Helmasaur King, now the Gemesaur King, is covered in rupees that blast off when you attack it with bombs, then it will turn out the lights when its mask disappears and charge around the room, requiring you to light the torches first before you can attack it. Blind, now Stalbind, wields a sword and shield, the latter he ditches when he realizes it's a weakness you exploit with the drawing ability, and attacks with his sword and later his floating head, spewing dark flame at you; this is a fun, multi-stage battle. Kholdstare is now Dharkstare, a fuzzy eye in an ice crystal that you have to burn away his outer layer before attacking him; his attacks involve spinning icy spheres that he either launches at you before they return to him, or spread out to create a flash of ice to freeze you, and the fact that you fight him on a slippery arena makes him all the more challenging. Trinexx is now Grinexx, his fire and ice heads nowhere to be found, instead requiring you to drop ice rod attacks on him from above, dodging his pillar of fire, then attacking him head on and avoiding his snapping neck and spinning shell attack on the surface. They're mostly great remixes of previous boss fights, though with a couple of exceptions I can't help but feel they're not as challenging as their previous counterparts. As for new bosses, we have Margomill of the House of Gales, Knucklemaster of Skull Woods, and Zaganaga of Desert Palace. Margomill is really disappointing, fun but incredibly easy; I don't know if he actually has an attack that damages you, the only damage he inflicts is if he manages to knock you into the pit around the arena. Knucklemaster apparently has mixed difficulty with some people, I actually found him mildly challenging while others found him easy, but I still think it was a fun boss. Zaganaga is also mixed; I found him quite easy while others found him hard or annoying, but this one is mostly just an alright boss.

 

Oh, and of course we have Yuga. His fights are quite unique and interesting, though admittedly easy to figure out. He hides in paintings and will retreat if you're not fast enough to slow him down, and he'll spawn minions too if you take too long or, in the second fight, attack the wrong doppelganger. Not too challenging, but then neither was Agahnim, and still quite fun. At the end, you fight the Yuga merged with Ganon, which seems to be a combination of the original Ganon fight, the Agahnim fight, and Yuga's own techniques. It's actually quite a fun callback, and while not too challenging (it lacks the threat of falling off the arena and the frantic pace in general), it's a good tribute to the Ganon battle. My only real problem with it is its final phase, which, while incredibly clever, is made easier on repeat playthroughs when you already know the strategy, but I guess that's the tradeoff. I wish there was more to the fight that made it remain challenging, like with the original Ganon fight, but I won't complain.

 

A Link Between Worlds is also the first game to run at sixty frames per second. At first I wondered if it would be disinteresting, and it was definitely noticeable at first, but it was very smooth and I quickly got used to it. There were no hitches, it was very natural, and now I'm hoping all future Zelda games (and even non Zelda games) run at this framerate, though it's not a necessity, just a nice little commodity.

 

As for music, I enjoy most of the remixes and some of the new themes, though a few I found forgettable. Like pretty much any extra bit added to a familiar theme, such as the Hyrule Field theme; first, why was it necessary to add more to it, and secondly, how come I can never remember how the rest goes? The song was perfect on its own, it didn't need additions. A little twist for remix purposes I don't mind, as the version used in the Game Boy games is quite good too, but they add too much I think, and it's just... not memorable. There are still some really good themes, like any of Yuga's, Hilda's theme, Thieves' Hideout, Lorule Castle, and a couple others, then others ranging from good-but-forgettable to meh. The remixes of existing themes are otherwise mostly good, though one complaint from me came from the first Dark World remix. The original song sounded like it was made for orchestra already, so I was hoping we got an appropriate remix. Instead we got Mexican Dark World. Not that it's a bad remix, just... I didn't think it was fitting. Fortunately, after rescuing the seven sages, we get a new remix, one that I was quite pleased with. It's an amazing remix, one I wish had been there the whole time, but that surprise was worth Mexican Dark World. Oh, and gotta love how the "Yuganon" fight started off with the original SNES version of the song before suddenly switching to the new, awesome remix. I think there are only two missed opportunities: The intro and staff roll themes from A Link to the Past. Those would have been amazing to remaster, but the ones we got instead were rather forgettable and weak in comparison. Alas, we can't have them all, and I suppose it's good that they were also adding new things instead of just directly copying A Link to the Past, so there's that.

 

So I've gushed about it enough. I suppose it's time to talk more about the parts of the game that... aren't so great. Which actually isn't that much. The story is what I'm getting at. It just seems to poke a lot of holes into itself. It has some neat moments for sure, such as Hilda's motivation, the secret of the dark Triforce, and the truth behind Ravio. But there's also just more questions. Why was the Triforce split? How'd Ganon get sealed away again? Why'd he just merge with Yuga without a word? Why did they have to kidnap the sages just so Link could save them and unlock the Triforce of Courage? Why were the Sages the ones that had to unseal the Triforce of Courage? Why isn't Zelda a sage? What's so special about that slate that let them discover Hyrule? I mean I like the twists in the story but they're built on such faulty points. I mean I suppose the intro isn't talking about either A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time, but instead another story afterward, unless they decided to retcon the Oracles incarnation of Ganon into taking the Triforce of Power or something. Maybe some other details are being saved for something else, I dunno, but there's just a lot of holes to me. I like what they were trying to do, I just think they could've done a better job of setting it up and explaining it. I still think Hilda and Ravio are great characters. I think Yuga is a Ghirahim knockoff with less personality. But fortunately, the story is inconsequential to how well the game plays. Maybe we'll get answers someday, maybe it's just to encourage more theory-making like the days before the timeline was released, but right now, I just don't think I like how it was all set up.

 

There are some other small things I'm forgetting I'm sure, both good and bad, but right now I can only think to add that I love how they added the name of the person speaking to the text box. I'm all for keeping Zelda games without voice-acting, but I have to admit I've occasionally been confused in the past as to who was speaking; this addition helps immensely and should continue to return. Other than that, I think I've exhausted the major points of discussion. All in all, other than the story, A Link Between Worlds is a complete package, an incredibly well-made and tightly-packaged game. It's full of things to do and fun to be had, and its engine is fast-paced and free of incessant handholding. They were right to pick A Link to the Past as its template, to remind us how the Zelda series was built, and show us what the future should be like. It's definitely rocketed up to a high place in my heart, and Nintendo should pat themselves on the back and keep this trend going for the future. I never thought Zelda was dying, but they sure showed us there's still room for most excellent change and improvement.

 

Oh, right, the death battle, let's go see how A Link to the Past is faring in its defense against A Link Between Worlds. They seem to be... shaking hands and sharing a glass of Chateau Romani down at the Milk Bar. Huh. That was unexpected. Well okay, I suppose it only makes since for one masterpiece to make nice with his brethren. Aw, now they're giving each other compliments, how sweet. ... and now they're off to conquer the world together. Great. Oh well, at least they make a great team.


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#133 Shane

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:09 AM

I agree with pretty much everything there. It was really a great game (one of the two games that were worth all my money (the other was GTA V. :P).).

 

Spoilers N Stuff


Edited by Shane, 29 November 2013 - 05:11 AM.


#134 Moonbread

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:00 AM

Warning spoilery post but you should already know this from reading TS' posts.

 

Okay, I can at least explain the kidnapping of the sages thing.  See, remember that Hilda wanted the entire Triforce from Hyrule, in Lorule.  She thought she was manipulating Yuga into resurrecting Ganon (or maybe just his shell?) to get the Triforce of Power, and kidnapping Zelda not just for the Triforce of Wisdom, but to also essentially blackmail Link (without him knowing it).  So, the sevensages were taken so that Link would have to look for them, and they'd give him the Triforce of Courage to fight against Yuga/Ganon with, except that's exactly what Hilda wanted, because presumably she knew that Link was the only one that could get it.  As for why the Triforce was split, I honestly can't answer that, but, it was split in the original games, and the Triforce of Courage was even lost, which actually mirrors this game a bit, too.  If we'll ever get an explanation for why it was split again though, well, that'll require a game between the Oracles and this game.  Speaking of the Oracles- I've yet to finish a linked game, but from what I understand, Twinrova merely summoned a shell of Ganon, which is a thought as to why Yuga could fuse with him so willy-nilly.  Frankly though, I wish Yuga had just gotten the Triforce of Power on his own and that would've warped him into a more powerful form, instead of say, us fighting Ganon again.

 

Overall though, I mostly agree with you.  I really enjoyed this game and am glad I pre-ordered it.  The dungeons were really fun (I initially played the Tower of Hera on a display model, before the game came out and still enjoyed it), I found the overworld to be fairly well done, despite that it was one I was familiar with already.  Honestly I'm too lazy to list out my thoughts right now, so I'll come back to that.

 

One big thing that does irk me though, is the lack of prevalent story and pacing throughout the game.  I'm willing to bet that Nintendo probably didn't have a strong story throughout the game because Skyward Sword did, and it had a gajillion lines of dialogue and cutscenes.  But the thing is, a strong story is one that doesn't interrupt the flow of the game, but instead enhances it.  The game felt over way too quickly, because everything just kept happening.  I think it would've been nice to explore Link as a blacksmith's apprentice instead of them mentioning it and then it never existing as a thing ever again.  They could've put more information about Lorule after you beat each dungeon.  I feel like there were ways to make the story really strong throughout the whole game, but Nintendo was too scared of it slowing the pace.  I think the pace needed a bit of slowing.  If Skyward Sword and ALBW are both a five-course meal, Skyward Sword gives you one course every 12 hours, but ALBW gives you all five courses all at once.  They both have their pros and cons- Skyward's will let you enjoy each course as it is, but makes you wait too long for more.  ALBW will let you pick what you like right away and maybe you'll start with the dessert, but then the meal is over too quickly.  I really hope in future games, they try to stick with ALBW's style but try to space out those courses a bit.

 

One thing you forgot to mention was bosses- or at least I think you did, I still see no mention of them anywhere.  I thought the bosses in this game were fantastic.  Some of the Lorule bosses are really challenging, and if they weren't that, they were at least really fun.  Blind wasn't as difficult as the first time around, but merging onto the shield was brilliant- and I love that instead of some companion giving you a hint about that, they did it by display, that his shield was something you could merge onto earlier in the dungeon.  That is how you provide clues to a fight, even if I thought it was unnecessary to include. :P  The only bosses I felt were underwhelming were the House of Gales and Skull Woods' bosses.  They were rather easy, sadly.  The House of Gales' boss- he really needed some kind of attack.  And merging made Skull Woods' boss way too easy.  But the bosses in Turtle Rock, the Ice Ruins, and the Misery Mire?  Some of the best in the entire series.

 

(Also they should've had Mothula and made it so that the Golden Sword didn't hurt it)


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#135 HylianGlaceon

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

For once I pretty much disagree...  (Spoilers ahead in case you can't tell)

 

 

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere numerous times. I was not a fan of the Rental Shop. Upon entering it with all the items available, you've pretty much beaten the game already. In my run of Hero Mode it was a tad difficult until the shop opened up, then I just Hookshot + Hammered nearly everything. A Link to the Past in all honesty was harder to me than my run in Hero Mode as I couldn't just Hookshot everything after Level 1.

 

One of the other problems with the rental shop for me was walking in it felt like I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be and it spoiled all the items in the entire game without me getting to wonder what an item might be. There should have been a big sign that said "SPOILERS" on the door. They were all just there. That feeling alone took off a lot of points to me in this game as I really enjoy going through dungeons the first time wondering what the item could possibly be and how I'll use it to solve the puzzles I see that I can't do anything with yet.

 

As for non-linearity, in my opinion, in order for it to be different and enjoyable it has to be a different game you're playing through each time. While the Rental Shop is supposed to encourage this, it actually ruins it. It didn't matter what order I did the dungeons in my second run. I had all the same items already from the Rental Shop. So while I did Swamp Palace the first time in the second run, it was nearly identical to my first run because I had all the same stuff. If the nonlinear setup worked where the items were actually in the dungeons, it'd be a totally different game and probably would've had many versions you could play by doing the dungeons in a different order.

 

So as with that, I was disappointed in how the Rental Shop worked and honestly I don't ever want to see it again. I don't see why it was needed or how it could serve to make a game enjoyable to what I like in Zelda games.

 

The Item Gauge was another thing that bothered me. In-game, it didn't make sense either. Why is it that Link can swing his Sword infinitely, but has to use this weird meter to swing a Hammer? Or to point and use the Hookshot? What is so magical about those that requires this unexplained meter? Where are the Arrows coming from too? It was just a terrible concept that didn't work for me. It also took the Ammo and Magic system that took strategy to use properly and made it into spam as much as you want and wait, then do it again to your heart's content. The Fire and Ice Rods needed the Magic Meter for a reason, they were too overpowered in this game. The Hookshot was overpowered too, but it pretty much always is whether or not it has a meter attached to it. If the Rental Shop wasn't in, the Hookshot should've been in a lategame dungeon.

 

Now as for dungeons. Dungeons have always been my favorite thing in the games. This time around having already been spoiled via the Rental Shop, I was hoping they could come up with some really good dungeons to take off the focus of the Rental Shop. Did they? Unfortunately no. The problem with most dungeons is they focused on a specific item and the Merge ability. Another unwanted gimmick thanks to the Rental Shop is that dungeons only use one item maximum minus the Dark Palace. I wanted to see puzzles where you use a Bomb to trigger a switch, then Hookshot to the other end of the room to Arrow a switch and Hookshot back before the wall that was lowered by the Bomb goes back up. This game offered very simple "use item X here" puzzles and then Merge to reach the door. Nothing that ever stumped me or even gave me a challenge like I had hoped for. If Merge hadn't been used in every other room, it would've been a much cooler ability. Sadly it got far overused where I would sigh and assume that's all I had to do to get to the next room. Most of the time, that were the case too.

 

One dungeon I will say that did some things right was the Dark Palace. More for the rooms with the paths that appear only in darkness and vanish when you equip the Lantern. Probably my favorite dungeon in the game.

 

As for the rest of the stuff in the game. I don't have much to say about it. Bosses were decent minus two to three. Overworld was as expected. Soundtrack was good. Story was terrible and Yuga is one of the lamest villains in the series.

 

@Scootaloo:

Mostly correct. Ganon was meant to be summoned in the Oracles by sacrificing Zelda. After Link defeats Twinrova, they sacrifice themselves to restore Ganon. But because the spell needed someone like Zelda to truly restore Ganon, he was brought back as a mindless shell of himself. Doesn't really explain why he was this way in ALBW as they didn't summon him properly in the Oracles. Should the failed spell permanently leave Ganon as a shell of himself? Shouldn't an assumed proper summoning bring back the full Ganon?

 

Also where in-game does it mention that the Sages lead to the Triforce of Courage? I've played through it twice and did not see it anywhere. Feels like it's just there because they couldn't put together a better way for Link to get the Triforce or an actual reason Link needs to save the Sages.


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