667 replies to this topic

[DashSim]

If we're talking DVD's or CD's, both of which can be resurfaced when damaged, I'd say you have a point.  But Blu-Ray, which current technology all but requires, can NOT be.  To put this another way, if it's damaged, that's it, your game is fucked, the company MAY replace it, or they may not.  And that's w/o considering load times.

Oh, the benefits that users would get from a switch to carts would be enormous. I mean, maybe not for every average user, but as a collector who has games ranging back from '77 in her collection, carts are my strong preference. Discs are comparatively fragile and can't really be fixed, the laser and moving parts inside the disc drive are finicky and wear down and break quickly and a repair usually requires buying pricey components if you're out of warranty. Just about every aspect of them ends up being a pain. And, yeah, load times and such, inability to save data to the game, etc. Meanwhile, the disadvantage for carts for me is that... uh... they can get dirty sometimes? I guess? So I'm rooting for carts, absolutely.

 

It's unfortunate that these decisions aren't made with what I want in mind! If they can manufacture games on a format that's cheaper to produce without upsetting consumers short term or damaging their brand long term, that's what will happen because as a company that's the perspective from which they have to view this. Which is why my thinking is that they'll only eat the cost of doing carts if they're fully embracing a vision of a shared library where one version of a physical game can be shipped to retailers which users can buy and play no matter which of Nintendo's devices they own.

[Nicholas Steel]

Discs are used because they cost less than a buck each. Basically anything else is going to be more expensive, that's why I have doubts about a disc substitute. I'd prefer digital downloads over discs. The only problem with that is when content is no longer hosted you need another form of access.

It took me 48 hours of continuous downloading to download DOOM because the physical release only contained a singular DVD of 7GB of data (The game is 52GB!). I am still in favour of physical distribution, and wish they'd actually fucking distribute the whole product in the physical package.

 

Alternatively they should pay to install a better internet connection to my house and then sure, go nuts with download only. But then you run in to the issue of the servers going down or the content no longer being accessible so that's no good either.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 29 June 2016 - 04:17 PM.

[NoeL]

Here, I'll just link the article:

 

http://www.escapistm...-Watergate-Joke

HAHAHA! Oh that Quinn...

[Koh]

Meanwhile, the disadvantage for carts for me is that... uh... they can get dirty sometimes? I guess? So I'm rooting for carts, absolutely.

Dust, damaged contacts, dying batteries (The internal battery has run dry!  Save files gone!), etc.  

 

So the final answer is:  Neither CDs or Carts.  Digital baby!  None of these problems.

[kurt91]

But, carts in the style of a 3DS game or an SD card, like what the rumor is that the NX will be using don't use batteries. Additionally, as far as the 3DS goes, your save files aren't stored on-game, but on the system itself (or at least the inserted SD card). That kills the only real issues with carts. The issue with Digital games is that Nintendo (or whoever you got your game from) can decide at any time that you didn't follow the rules closely enough and can take away your downloaded game. They also make it impossible to re-download when the servers eventually go down. (If Steam closed up shop, just about every PC gamer out there would lose their entire library. Nintendo seems to run servers on a per-console basis or something, since they shut down the online functionality for the Wii. You can't play Brawl or Mario Kart online anymore.)

 

I'd probably figure that carts would be best. Now, if they were to add multiple cart slots to the system, since they're so physically small now, then you can keep your games in the system without having to switch as often. A less-clunky approach would be a sort of compromise, where you're allowed to download the game from the cart to your system, so you don't need to keep it inserted all the time, with the compromise that you're only allowed cart-less play where you can go online, or can "update" your game on a weekly basis or something. It would register the game's serial number or whatever with your account, and each time you go online, you're allowed a week to use the game without the card since it can keep that serial number registered to you. That way, you can't just download the game off the cart, then give/sell the cart to somebody else and keep the game. Once it registers that somebody else is setting up the game to their account, your next update removes the game permissions from your system.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Dust, damaged contacts, dying batteries (The internal battery has run dry!  Save files gone!), etc.  

 

So the final answer is:  Neither CDs or Carts.  Digital baby!  None of these problems.

 

Firstly, "Lithium Batteries" are an outdated technology that is never used anymore, I thought the fact that N64 games didn't use them was a dead giveaway, I was wrong, I guess.  They also weren't actual batteries per se, but MOSFET chips that wear out quickly but are only used during the save process.

 

Also, it would take a LOT of dust to permanently damage a cartridge, especially difficult, considering the sensitive parts are INSIDE THE CASING, where it is difficult for dust to get into.  This does not remotely compare to accidentally having a disc slip out of your hand one day, and then not being able to play your game.

 

And damaging the contacts would require a LOT more than scratching a disc would.

[DashSim]

Dust, damaged contacts, dying batteries (The internal battery has run dry!  Save files gone!), etc.  

 

So the final answer is:  Neither CDs or Carts.  Digital baby!  None of these problems.

First point: I covered the fact that they can get dirty in my post (a non-issue due to the extremely slow rate at which dirt buildup occurs under normal use, absurdly easily fixed when it does happen, and the same is likely to happen to discs at a faster rate). Third point: Modern carts use flash memory for data storage; battery saving hasn't been the standard in many years (and in regards to older carts, the batteries tend to work for decades, far outlasting the average HDD, and the batteries aren't exceptionally difficult to replace when they eventually do go).

 

Your second point is basically 'they are technically physical objects which can be destroyed,' which, well, you sure got me there.

 

Mind you, in all this discussion over the disadvantages of discs, I'd still over prefer discs over digital distribution. A thousand times over. No question.

[Cukeman]

Ultimately digital is physical too, 'cuz someone has to store it on a device somewhere, whether it's you, the host, etc.

Edited by Cukeman, 01 July 2016 - 04:31 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

Dust, damaged contacts, dying batteries (The internal battery has run dry!  Save files gone!), etc.  

 

So the final answer is:  Neither CDs or Carts.  Digital baby!  None of these problems.

As various cartridge consoles demonstrated, you do not need a battery for anything other than some forms of re-writable memory (Like SRAM, as featured in NES and SNES cartridges for save data). The loss of the battery does not render the device useless (Program data will be fine without battery power) though you may lose your save data, you can usually replace the battery without much issue and thus regain the ability to save your progress.

 

Damaged contacts wasn't really an issue with any console except the NES and even then it was the contacts within the console itself, not the cartridges. SNES, N64 and various Sega cartridges and console connectors work fine for years, years and years.

 

Dust isn't really an issue unless you store the cartridges poorly. Rust/corrosion isn't an issue either unless you're storing stuff in a damp environment and even then a bit of rubbing alcohol and cloth can rub off the grime and rust.

 

Digital however, is like storing both the program data and your save data on a device that depends on a battery to retain all the data and the battery can go dead at any moment. Loss of the battery (or distribution server) renders complete loss of everything pertaining to that product with no means of recovery.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 02 July 2016 - 01:13 PM.

[Moonbread]

I'll also throw in that I have games that are hella older than I am that work like I got them new yesterday because someone rubbed the contacts with a q-tip and rubbing alcohol for like 2 minutes.  It's really a non-issue.

[DashSim]

I'll also throw in that I have games that are hella older than I am that work like I got them new yesterday because someone rubbed the contacts with a q-tip and rubbing alcohol for like 2 minutes. It's really a non-issue.

Yep! I have a bunch of Atari 2600 games - a console from 1977! - which all work just fine. They didn't even come to me in decent condition, but a minute cleaning each cart of its 30+ year dirt buildup got them running just fine.

(Btw it was me, I'm the someone who cleaned her NES games with rubbing alcohol, I admit it, I CONFESS)

[Anthus]

I actually just cleaned a bunch of my SNES games and they work fine. The only one that won't save anymore is Super Mario World.

I hate digital, it's a scam, IMO, and if a console goes full digital only, then fuck it, I'll stick to Steam.

[Nicholas Steel]

I actually just cleaned a bunch of my SNES games and they work fine. The only one that won't save anymore is Super Mario World.

Just lever/screw open the cartridge shell and replace the battery and you'll regain the ability to save your progress for another 7+ years (depending on battery quality). You might need to replace the battery holder thing inside the cartridge and do some soldering as I believe they tend to solder the battery in to position in the cartridge.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 01 July 2016 - 04:17 PM.

[Koh]

Storage folks, storage.  If you have a bunch of games, you have to store all that hardware (CD cases + CDs, cartridges + Boxes) somewhere, and it becomes a hassle fast when you have a ton of them.  Digital just requires you to have space on the harddrive, which is a non issue these days considering we have memory coming out of our ears, but if you move houses, you have to take all the physical mediums with you.  You don't have to figure out packaging and closet space and all that nonsense with digital, lol.  I do admit there's a certain charm to playing games on a real console rather than emulators and such, but the pros far oughtweigh the cons.  I honestly have no regrets to going digital and being a PC gamer.  Steam isn't going anywhere anytime soon, they have far too much money.

Edited by Koh, 01 July 2016 - 08:52 PM.

[NoeL]

I hate digital, it's a scam, IMO, and if a console goes full digital only, then fuck it, I'll stick to Steam.

Lol, the irony. "They went digital-only? Screw them, I'll just go back to my trusty digital-only platform!"

 

There are pros and cons to both digital and physical, but if I'm going to fork out more than $20-30 bucks for a game it damn well better come with a physical release and that physical release better have the whole damn game on it (at least v1.0). Digital-only isn't so bad for PC because the PC platform's lifespan is significantly longer than any console - I can still play games I bought two decades ago whereas the current consoles (Wii U excluded) can't manage more than a couple of years back. The longevity of the medium and the knowledge that if my current PC breaks in ten years time I won't need to trawl eBay for old hardware to be able to play them again makes it work out. All those poor souls that bought digital content on the original Wii back when the downloads were locked to the console got royally screwed. If their Wii goes so does their entire library. Thankfully most digital distributors have account-locked content so you can always redownload something if you need to... as long as their servers stay up. If they decide to pull the plug unexpectedly (GFWL anyone?) say goodbye to your game library! Damn, if only you had physical media...

 

The biggest (or at least one of the biggest) downside to purchasing digital games is of course lack of resalability. I have a whole bunch of physical games that I could sell if and when I wanted to (and I might do too, now I think of it), which is why I would never sink more than the aforementioned $20-30 into a digital-only release. If you're paying full retail release for a digital game you're a sucker - you're potentially losing money for negligible gain. If the game happens to not be that good you just blew a chunk of dough you can't recover.

 

But the upsides to digital are typically 1) less physical storage space needed, and 2) you can often pick up games for dirt cheap - cheaper than you'd ever get a physical copy. Those are the direct consumer benefits, but there's also an indirect benefit: more games! Physical distribution is expensive and risky, but digital distribution opens the gates for so many more developers, meaning more games for everyone (for better or worse)!

 

I think the smartest option is (naturally) to do as I do! If you're buying a new release that's costing you bank, get a physical copy. You'll be able to sell it off when you get bored of it, and by the time you feel like playing it again you can probably pick up a digital copy for cheap (just keep an eye on the Steam sales). If you're buying an older game that's on sale (digitally) for a few bucks, grab it.

 

And for the love of God, don't fucking pre-order anything that will be abundantly available at launch!!! Pre-order culture needs to die a swift death... totally off-topic, but whatever.