61 replies to this topic

[TheLegend_njf]

I think you are missing the point. Most ZC quests are "practically" remakes. When I say remake I mean a quest made to recreate the game as faithfully as possible without changes, updates, or additions. Not a quest that parodies ALTTP in story and layout.

And as far as dungeons. I haven't played your quest so don't take this as a critique. When I see a quest with 10 plus dungeons I immediately think that all those dungeons are probably indecipherable from one another besides what items are available and a color change. I'd rather have 4 great dungeons over 8 good dungeons or 12 decent dungeons.

Granted, even 5 dungeons with different color schemes would add very little to the table. In case of my quest as you mention, how I perform this with 14 full fledged dungeons without it being unbearable? Just see for yourself.

Update: That was a bit vague. I apologies. But what's with dungeons having to be dungeons? I mean sure, if we want our quest to be called "journey through Hyrule" and every dungeon would be "level 1, level2, level 3, etc, etc, etc" it simply would make little sense. But if a noob in his early stages learned how to use the tile editor, pallette editor, and combo table editor, he can break that norm and use overworld tiles to make some sik dungeons. That's simply all it took for me, creating dungeon walls that worked in overworld tiles so that many dungeons hardly seemed like dungeons at all. A noob can do this. I once thought an 8 year old child how to use the tile editor.

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 10 July 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[SUCCESSOR]

I would play your quest but you don't have a quest in QDB and your website's link to 2shared doesn't appear to have a real download link. So maybe choose a host site that doesn't suck.

Edited by SUCCESSOR, 11 July 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[TheLegend_njf]

Thanks for the tip. I'll be glad to send you a copy, just send me over a pm.

[SUCCESSOR]

I dug in the source of the page and found the download link. I haven't gotten far so I won't say anything about it except the hour of suffering you force the player through in that text recap.

Since this isn't the place to discuss your quest I may post in the Souls of Wisdom thread after I've played a bit.

What I meant by the first point is that large quests are NOT a necessity to becoming sucessful. "Reaching for the stars" is not limited to making large quests. You also must consider what will be in your quest. Heck, small to mid sized quests can have a lot of new and interesting things packed in. It's like comparing a muscular person to a overly fat person.

I completely agree with this. Not only are most long quest boring but a lot of things can be done in a short amount of time and a small amount of space. I think every quest builder wants to make a ALTTP. ALTTP may have been a huge game but every part of the game had a lot of content. And it was a unnecessarily big in some parts.

Edited by SUCCESSOR, 11 July 2012 - 02:14 AM.

[TheLegend_njf]

Good idea.

Anyways, back on focus to the nature of this topic I feel responsible for butchering. I still believe that noobs are very much free to make long quests, as long as their hearts desires. I also believe we best learn through trial and error. A common newbie mistake would be to have darknuts in the first or second dungeon. However, Im certain it can be done effectively with the right ideas in mind.

The enemy editor brings a whole new dynamic to quest design, I couldn't see why we couldn't make really weak darknuts, those that won't irritate us, even in the first dungeon.

The sky is the limit, at least that's the opinion I stand by right now.

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 11 July 2012 - 02:22 AM.

[Dawnlight]

If you are fully capable of making a large quest and if its something you desire rather than listening to what the public wants from you, then there isn't a problem in that. However, there are some newbies out who are extremely cocky and arrogant thinking making large quests similar to HoD, LI, BoaB, etc will be one step closer into becoming PZC "superstars".

This leads to another point that large quests are intimidating newbies. Like I stated above, large quests are NOT a standard to becoming a successful quest-maker. I think this frustrates so many newcomers that they would most likely quit and give up if their work is not as good as these large quests. I think this reason contributes to why so many developing quests here get cancelled.

[DarkFlameWolf]

I think this frustrates so many newcomers that they would most likely quit and give up if their work is not as good as these large quests. I think this reason contributes to why so many developing quests here get cancelled.

Which is a shame. Many of the up and coming quests I've seen are stellar productions and ones I would LOVE to get my hands on and play.

[King Harkinian]

This leads to another point that large quests are intimidating newbies. Like I stated above, large quests are NOT a standard to becoming a successful quest-maker. I think this frustrates so many newcomers that they would most likely quit and give up if their work is not as good as these large quests. I think this reason contributes to why so many developing quests here get cancelled.

I was working on a large quest, and I cancelled it. However the reason was I was working in 2.10 and I normally use Windows 7 on my dual booted pc, and switching to and from XP was a pain, so I cancelled it. But in truth it's not actually cancelled, because I'm remaking it in 2.5. :3

[TheLegend_njf]

If you are fully capable of making a large quest and if its something you desire rather than listening to what the public wants from you, then there isn't a problem in that. However, there are some newbies out who are extremely cocky and arrogant thinking making large quests similar to HoD, LI, BoaB, etc will be one step closer into becoming PZC "superstars".

This leads to another point that large quests are intimidating newbies. Like I stated above, large quests are NOT a standard to becoming a successful quest-maker. I think this frustrates so many newcomers that they would most likely quit and give up if their work is not as good as these large quests. I think this reason contributes to why so many developing quests here get cancelled.

That's pretty well said, and very agreeable.

I believe there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence, and the arrogant ones are often so easy to tell despite the fine line.

An arrogant person, in my humble opinion are prone to aim too high, than get too upset when their high standards fall short, but if you think about it, there are many people who approach through life this way. These are the kind of people who buy the top selling cleaners on the market, but still got a messy house, their expectations fell short, and they give up.

I may rub off as arrogant, and perhaps I am a little. I'm the guy who's stole other men's girlfriends without shame simply cause they would insult me, irritate me, or insult my kid. Most cases over none I find out they weren't treating their gals good in the first place. I am the kinda guy that aims high and do carry almost over the top ambitions. However, if my expectations aren't quite met or satisfied, it's not a big deal.

Yes, it is too bad some noobs can't see through their arrogance and imagines great ideas and plans that go flat, but that is not an uncommon attitude and it is everywhere, it's simply a direct consequence caused by a perfectionist competitive society that's brainwashing half of us. "Survival of the fittest" that doesn't apply in our society, it hasn't applied in our society since Mc. Donalds and television.

But still, most people will strive to be the best of the best because I believe they put their entire self esteem on the line! It's as if their survival do depend on being #1. Unfortunately, like it or not, these kind of noobs are everywhere, and continue to grow, there will always be a guy who'll tell you what flaws your quest have, but yet ask how to make a message string, than insult you for helping saying "I would have figured that out on my own".

Annoying? Certainly!! Preventable? Absolutely not.

Sorry.

But back to the point, I have my own arrogance. I build what I want, what I enjoy, without even knowing what the public wants, I just so happened to be lucky, it would seem.

[Xenix]

I pretty much agree with what has been stated by Dawnlight. I'll admit I had high ambition at the start, but I mellowed out within a month. I always got excited whenever I learned a new skill in ZQuest as I knew that it would allow me to further my creativity. I then further pursued my goal to get more skill. I am now content with my abilities and I know my weaknesses.

[Rambly]

But back to the point, I have my own arrogance. I build what I want, what I enjoy, without even knowing what the public wants, I just so happened to be lucky, it would seem.

(I'm not really directing the word "you" in this post towards anyone specific -- I'm using "you" in a general sense.)

That's how you should build a quest! Don't build to impress other people -- build something that you would personally find fun. Chances are, if it's something you'd enjoy sitting down and playing through, like-minded people are going to enjoy it as well.

In fact, that's really what all of these misunderstandings stem from. People build these monolithically self-important quests because they're trying to impress people... and then they fall flat on their faces because the author gets burnt out or bored because they aren't really enjoying making the quest.

It's a hobby and you aren't getting paid for any of this, and any fame you receive is going to be fleeting, or honestly kind of meaningless in the end because there's only a few hundred active people here and maybe a few thousand people that know about ZC at all.

Plus, being well-known is kind of crappy anyway. Engaging in a fun and productive hobby for its own sake is way cooler and more rewarding.

[Dawnlight]

In fact, that's really what all of these misunderstandings stem from. People build these monolithically self-important quests because they're trying to impress people... and then they fall flat on their faces because the author gets burnt out or bored because they aren't really enjoying making the quest.

^QFT - This quote should be on everybody's signatures.

Plus, being well-known is kind of crappy anyway. Engaging in a fun and productive hobby for its own sake is way cooler and more rewarding.

YES! Being well-known in PZC is WAAAAAAY overrated. And will explain why.

1. People expect too much from you.
2. Moochers
3. It doesn't feel any different than being an ordinary PZC member
4. Moochers
5. Sometimes, it could make you an arrogant prick if you take publicity seriously
6. Moochers
7. Moochers!

[TheLegend_njf]

Which explains my choice in the mild arrogance. I am at heart a very humble guy, that is most notable when I show an innocent tone that seems outside of my character. In reality, when it comes to debates such as these, or the quests I make, I simply enjoy what I do. However, if my efforts such as an argument, or a quest, or simply something as small as a joke falls short, I don't cry over it.

There has been times I've had members on this forum become offended by what I say, saying that I have damaged my credibility and therefore sabotaged my efforts in proving a point. If I were like some people of the "arrogant" kind, I would have taken that for what it is, an insult to my pride, and would have turned it into a heated argument. But in this instance, I simply said "okay, boss!" in which I imagined in Danny Trejo's voice, how he would say it in Fallout New Vegas as the character Raul. Why? Because my sense of pride is so distorted in a way that it doesn't want or need to defend itself. My pride simply has no desire to hold unto things.

Now I guess I'll get to the point. Simply enough, though I value my opinions and my time. I can, at the same time start an argument or debate and enjoy it while it is enjoyable, but abandon it when it gets annoying. The same as I can create a quest, follow it to the end, but also if the quest "I love so dearly" doesn't appeal to the fans, I can and very much will simply either tweaking it the way I want, or simply abandon it without any regrets, the process was fun, the idea in my opinion was fantastic, it simply didn't appeal to the public eye.

This subtle arrogance also keeps a certain level aloofness that is comforting when interacting with people on this message board. I don't feel popular or famous, even though I find myself strangely meeting girls online who's known some guy who's mentioned the famous Grant Cole and his Souls of Wisdom... Wtf??? Haha! I suppose, whatever. Girls will be girls I suppose, I'm as famous as the bag of corn that didn't arrive on time, in my humble opinion. So, despite that example, I don't get much moochers "as Dawnlight phrased it", and the overall experience as a quest maker on here is very satisfactory.

I will continue to act in a friendly but mildly arrogant manner indefinitely too, simply to balance my alienated aloofness image while confidently doing the things I enjoy doing best, which are making good quests, and questioning and debating everything I see and hear that doesn't seem fully correct.

Cheers!

Ps: I just thought about something. Are there people who actually seek fame through Zelda quests?? I mean, I kinda always got the notion that it is possible, but when the chips are all down are there really some people who think it's THAT important? Hmmm, I guess it's reasonable to say it's possible, and maybe more common than I imagine.

[Dawnlight]

First off, I don't think you're arrogant NewJourneyFire. From what I have read, I think your version of arrogance is self-esteem to me. It great to have some self-esteem when developing quests.

When you have people who make an excuses like "I cancelled my quest because people are making better screens than me." and people calling other quests inferior just to put their work on top, that's where they're crossing the line. And trust me, you weren't here long enough to know how frequently these incidents occur. More specifically when we used to have the DS forum. I remember one time, I commented on a person's screen saying that it was too messy and this person got really pissed and not only did he refer to this comment in several of his topics, but went after everyone else's screens. He called my screens "too plain". That's how mad he was.

That's my definition of arrogant and insecure. This is something I hope no newbie here becomes.

[Evan20000]

Also putting that quote in my signature. It's really an amazing quote because it's relevant to any form of art.

I think that the biggest thing that newbies (such as myself) have to get over is that we won't be making Hero of Dreams/Lost Isle/(insert megaquest here) without a ridiculous amount of effort. All of the effort that goes into attempting to make something like that should be enjoyable for the questmaker or else they will have poured hundreds upon hundreds of hours of their lives into a quest that (at best) provides very short term internet fame among a fairly small community.

But as been said before, if you want to make a quest; make it for yourself. That seems to be the 'golden rule' of quest development from what I've gathered

Edited by Evan20000, 13 July 2012 - 07:52 AM.