51 replies to this topic

[CastChaos]

Don't be afraid of making Tinman look fat, he really was that in the cartoon. And it's logical, too. That north stab hole visibility is really a witty idea. So, these look good. As for Lion, just use the same method you used at Tinman. Emulate the steel to flesh and the shining to fur.

[jerome]

Do you think that yellow as a reflection on the Lt brown would be too drastic? It's the only other color I have. I'm sure I can edit it out, I was just trying to keep at least a yellow somewhere... Wait, Cset6 is just for Link right? So I shouldn't have to worry about taking out a yellow for background stuff right? It should be in another Cset anyways if that's correct.

[CastChaos]

As for CSet 6, please please consider that when the player gets a Ring (Tunic/Mail/etc.) then CSet 6 is entirely swapped with the CSet of that certain Ring. I think they are 7, 8, 9 in the Extra Sprite Palette. So, you need to watch out not to place any combos with CSet 6 that you don't want their colour change, and also when you modify CSet 6, you immediately need to look at the Ring CSets, too...

As for having yellow as the lightest gradient of brown... it's completely acceptable. You can go out a little from gradient intervals. You see, since I'm already far in my quest, I can't modify the gradient intervals, because then it would take days to find and recolour every miscolours caused... so most times I need to go out from a gradient...

[Gleeok]

Do you think that yellow as a reflection on the Lt brown would be too drastic? It's the only other color I have. I'm sure I can edit it out, I was just trying to keep at least a yellow somewhere... Wait, Cset6 is just for Link right? So I shouldn't have to worry about taking out a yellow for background stuff right? It should be in another Cset anyways if that's correct.

8-bit mode. Then you can have as many colors as you need without having to constantly fidget with few colors. The only thing you lose in return is Link->Flashing, which quite frankly is stupid to begin with. Take a look at the sotw this week, I've got over 170 colors in that shot easily. You can also add the system colors to the main pallete by ripping them from a screenshot then setting them to cset 12-15.

[jerome]

8-bit mode. Then you can have as many colors as you need without having to constantly fidget with few colors. The only thing you lose in return is Link->Flashing, which quite frankly is stupid to begin with. Take a look at the sotw this week, I've got over 170 colors in that shot easily. You can also add the system colors to the main pallete by ripping them from a screenshot then setting them to cset 12-15.

I'll try that idea some other time after I get used to all of this editing stuff. But I'm having problems figuring out 16 colors, 256 would probably cause my head to fry and go Kaflooey. Maybe after I get used to the "simple task" of editing palletes and making characters in 16x16 tile world I'll try it. Who knows, I might end up trying it and using it just after I get these characters done and have to start almost all over... on second thought... maybe I should go to some old Apple IIc graphics, I can handle that... I think. It's a good idea, but I honestly don't think I am ready for it. But I'll kick the idea around.

I realize this next part is a little off topic and belongs in Zquest editor help...
but with this 8-bit idea though, is there a way to get better resolution on the tiles. Like instead of 16x16 tile, it's now a 64x64 tile but only taking up the same amount of space as a 16x16? I'm guessing "NO"on this one.

Off topic edit:
EDIT: BTW Gleeok, that screenshot looks pretty dang good. I hope your's wins over the diner one which seemed to be the favorite.

Edited by jerome, 15 March 2008 - 09:43 AM.

[CastChaos]

8-bit mode doesn't let you place more pixels as a tile, just 16x16. It's good for character tiles, but since 8-bit tiles are the same on all CSets of all palettes, if you overuse it, it will be like you used only one palette for the entire game...

[Gleeok]

but since 8-bit tiles are the same on all CSets of all palettes, if you overuse it, it will be like you used only one palette for the entire game...

I'm not following this. How could 8-bit colors become redundant while 4-bit csets magically become more colorful each time you use them? That doesn't make sense. Level Csets can be used in 8-bit you know. Check out some more sotw, With only three screens I'll have well surpassed 300 colors.


Jerome, I suggested that as an option because you can too easily run out of colors when using multiple playable characters. And note that you convert tiles to 8-bit on a singular basis, meaning you can have some characters that use 8-bit and some that do not. Although the flashing would be weird like that.....Another option would be to use dummy items that change Cset 6 for each player change, thus giving you four total csets to work with instead of one.

[jerome]

Gleeok- I actually am using items to change the characters though. They are all actually using the same Cset so far. As CastChaos mentioned before, I'm going to have to copy what I have onto 7,8,9 (or whatever they were) in case I give out rings on this quest. But don't worry folks, if I don't give out rings, it will be because you won't need them. I am thinking of doing a "blue ring" to change the TinMan into one of the Witches Guards costumes. But then again, I'm having enough trouble.

So far it's this with the changes:
Dorothy: Small shield like protection- I'm going to keep the projectile enemies at bay to make it seem a little more realistic. I know I could do shieldless, but I'll just keep it easy with her. If there are projectiles, it will be ones that would hurt with a small shield anyways.
Lion: Big Shield- He may be a pansy, but he can handle being hit with more stuff.
TinMan: Mirror Shield- well... duh.
Scarecrow is going to be an info guy. Sounds kind of goofy since he "Doesn't have a brain". But his info will be "So easy a Caveman Scarecrow could do it"

I'm still going to have to figure out how to start in "sepia" colored characters/world and then go to color. Someone mentioned palette cycling, but I'm not sure how to do that. Looked at a tutorial and was still lost.
Maybe Cset 6 will be sepia and then dorothy will get color with the blue ring going into Oz to give her color.

All these problems and I haven't even drawn a map! Sheesh!

[Gleeok]

Ah, keep in mind that there is an item editor now, so when I said "dummy items" I was referring to the fact that any item can now be adapted to change Link->CSet, tile mods, or not. So you could have 25 rings that don't change Link's CSet for example.

Also you'd be saving some mental anguish by using something like this:


D0-item to take
D1-item to give
-The change is instantanious.

CODE

ffc script item_swap{

    void run(int item1, int item2){

        Link->Item[item1] = false;
        Link->Item[item2] = true;
    }
}

[CastChaos]

Gleeok, what I meant was...
Well, I examined Captain Magenta's "only 8-bit" tileset and I found that 8 bit tiles are the same on all palette's all CSets. Meaning if I want to have more than one palettes, then I need to make as many duplicates of all overworld and dungeon tiles as many palette I want to have. It's a little dumb that a perfectly shaded 8-bit tree has the exact same colours during night, day, twilight, pitch black, grayscale, etc... The traditional colour methods provide less shades, but most times they are just enough, and since they are mostly palette specific, it's possible to have night, day, twilight, pitch black, grayscale, etc. without drawing a million variation of the same tile.

Also, Jerome, in 2.5 there are really millions of possibilities. For example, you aren't forced to have Tinman mirror shielded if you don't want, you can alter the mirror shield to lose its mirrorness... or just copy the mirror shield's LTM data into a Misc.Item and give that to the player. It's just an example. Not like Tinmans mirrorness wasn't logical. Except for the dumb fact that his face is mirrored, but the side and back are not protected even from simple rock shots. Same for Lion. But scripting and item editor really gives millions of possibilities. And with the item editor, you can make millions of enemies that aren't shooting rocks, arrows or boomerangs, yet still keep the variety. Not like in my Hyrule's Christmas, where Myra's invisible shield forced me to put only "no projectile" or "fireball shooter" enemies.

[jerome]

Thanks guys.

I chose the shields because it was the easiest way for me to know how to change them. Now hopefully I can figure out how the rest is going to go.

[Beefster]

They seem kinda bland.

And doesn't this belong in developer's exchange?

[jerome]

Thank you Beefster for your valuable input and help...

Anyways

Well everyone I got Lion done. I'm just wondering if he looks too much like a monkey going left and right? And in case you are wondering, yes he is facing the opposite way when attacking on purpose. Also, if he does look too much like a monkey, any ideas on what to do to him to make him look like Lion instead?



Lion ducks and covers his eyes when he attacks.

[CastChaos]

Lion ducks and covers his eyes when he attacks.

Now THAT'S our Lion. This was a witty idea. He doesn't look too monkey-ish to me, I would gladly play him as he is. If he looks too monkey-ish, that can be because the head hair obviously makes his head bigger, which is part of monkey picturing. Might be, you can make him thinner... being thin is part of lion picturing...

[Mitchfork]

Gleeok, what I meant was...
Well, I examined Captain Magenta's "only 8-bit" tileset and I found that 8 bit tiles are the same on all palette's all CSets. Meaning if I want to have more than one palettes, then I need to make as many duplicates of all overworld and dungeon tiles as many palette I want to have. It's a little dumb that a perfectly shaded 8-bit tree has the exact same colours during night, day, twilight, pitch black, grayscale, etc... The traditional colour methods provide less shades, but most times they are just enough, and since they are mostly palette specific, it's possible to have night, day, twilight, pitch black, grayscale, etc. without drawing a million variation of the same tile.

Ummm... 8-bit tiles do change between palettes. But only if the tile uses CSets 2, 3, or 4.

Jerome, the tiles are good. I especially like how you made the lion's cheeks fat and his creative attack animation.