54 replies to this topic

[Gleeok]

On September the 13th, 2023, three developers and members of purezc, Connor Clark, Emily, and Deedee, perpetrated an act so brazen as to possibly be considered the worst offense in the history of Zelda Classic. These three have willfully and of their own volition betrayed the trust of Armageddon Games, ZC developers, and the entire Zelda Classic community when they executed a removal and deletion of the master codebase on github used for development of the ZQuest and Zelda Classic programs. This codebase is now located in a private repository where there is no access by anyone. In short, they stole the property of Armageddon Games and conspired to retain it for themselves for personal interests. There are really not many words I can use to express this betrayal of trust placed in them.

The investigation into this matter and into events which may of preceded it of the last two years is still ongoing, so I will not speculate as to motives as of yet; except to say that the differences between forking, cloning, or mirroring a repository from what they have done is that all past forks, subscribers, links, etc. now point to their own private organization rather than that of Armageddon Games, and the simple facts regarding the byproducts of this move allude to a motive which requires, at least in part, the appropriation of the userbase as well. I will remind everyone that ZC is not a personal project and that developers should not be making modifications to the core program for selfish reasons.

Therefore Connor Clark, Venrob aka Emily, and Dimentio aka Dimi aka Deedee, are hereby banned for life from all Zelda Classic development, including, but not limited to, access to development forums and to all code repositories used for official ZC development. Because of the nature of this offense, the confession from each of them, their refusal to return what they stole, their contempt to other developers and staff, and other reasons which will not be disclosed here, there is no possibility of appeal at this time.

Until this situation is resolved development of ZC will remain on hold for the time being. We are also in agreement with many complaints from users of the ZC community that the focus and direction the program has taken recently is not in the best interests of the average user or even the community as a whole. On a personal note, I am very sorry to have to share this bad news with you all; this is not the direction anyone was hoping for when ZC became open source almost eight years ago.

[Anthus]

Uhhh.

 

 

Until this situation is resolved development of ZC will remain on hold for the time being.

 

Literally according to who? It's open source, and I don't see the devs going "Oh well, I guess we better stop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

 

 

This codebase is now located in a private repository where there is no access by anyone.

 

The source code is included in every single nightly, and alpha, as per the license.

 

I don't agree with some of the ideas along the lines of monetization either by any means and think that's a bad idea, but you guys are making a mountain from a mole hill here. No one "stole" anything.

[Mitchfork]

i just wanna remake zelda 1 man

[Moosh]

Yo, put me on that list, chief. Not trans, so I don't have a deadname for you to use, but feel free to credit me as Pokemonmaster64. Next closest thing.

 

I was against the majority decision and wanted to cave to AGN's demands after the repository was mistakenly moved, but make no mistake: I do not take AGN's side here. I take the side of whoever is currently contributing the most to ZC's development. Currently this is Emily and Connor. 

 

My deepest condolences to the folks at AGN for the theft of their GitHub stars, though. That's gotta suck.

[SUCCESSOR]

Uhhh.


Literally according to who? It's open source, and I don't see the devs going "Oh well, I guess we better stop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"


The source code is included in every single nightly, and alpha, as per the license.

I don't agree with some of the ideas along the lines of monetization either by any means and think that's a bad idea, but you guys are making a mountain from a mole hill here. No one "stole" anything.

So you think if I trust you with privileged access to my Open Source project's Github organization you can just clean it out and move everything to your own organization and delete the contents of mine?

That isn't how open source or licensing works. Of course they stole. Yes, they are free to develop ZC independently of AGN or any other organization. They did not have the right to steal files from the AGN Github organization just because they were trusted with access.

As crass as some people in this drama can be it doesn't change the truth of what happened. You can dislike anyone involved in the situation that doesn't justify any of this.

[Evan20000]

[Matthew]

I’m locking this topic. It went off the rails almost immediately, which is completely unsurprising. Staff will discuss how to mediate this discussion at a future point. For now, it will remain locked.

[Matthew]

Staff have discussed this thread and have decided to unlock it. Off-topic posts have been hidden.

Given the subject at hand, staff expect some level of animosity to arise in this thread. However, this is an important discussion and we want to make space for it. Our ask is simple: convey your points in a straightforward manner (without further resorting to personal attacks), and the thread will stay open.

That being said, the staff are firmly supportive of Deedee, Emily, and Connor’s contributions to ZC, and the crucial role they play as active developers.

[Nightmare]

The community has officially split.

Whatever happens, happens.

The end.

-James

[The Satellite]

I have no horse in the ZC race therefore all i really have to say is:

 

No matter whether someone has wronged you nor to what severity, you do not have the right to deadname them. Don't be a dick.

[Timelord]

Yo, put me on that list, chief. Not trans, so I don't have a deadname for you to use, but feel free to credit me as Pokemonmaster64. Next closest thing.

 

I was against the majority decision and wanted to cave to AGN's demands after the repository was mistakenly moved, but make no mistake: I do not take AGN's side here. I take the side of whoever is currently contributing the most to ZC's development. Currently this is Emily and Connor. 

 

My deepest condolences to the folks at AGN for the theft of their GitHub stars, though. That's gotta suck.

 

I had not planned to chime in to this for a while, as it serves minimal purpose until various threads reach clarity, however, I am confused here: This is not 'deadnaming', it is declaring legal names on a legal document and showing aliases to disambiguate the subject, as is generally required. Further, are you literally opting out of the license? Your statement seems to indicate that you are. 

 

Note that if you do this, you will never be able to use any ZC product beyond 2.50.2 (closed source) ever again, and this applies to all forks and side projects that in any way use ZC code released under GPL.

 

This is precisely the position these thieves face at present. They have been given a duration to return to AGN what they have stolen, in order to recover their legal access; and should they refuse, it means permanent termination of their licence. They will not be able to develop, or legally use, the software from that point onwards, and I sincerely doubt any grace will be shown to them thereafter. Other legal woes may follow, but on that it is up to WL. Technically what they have done may constitute multiple counts on at least four felony laws. 

 

I do not advise advocating for doing that, as that can make you an accessory after the fact. 

I have no horse in the ZC race therefore all i really have to say is:

 

No matter whether someone has wronged you nor to what severity, you do not have the right to deadname them. Don't be a dick.

 

Again, these are legal names, and when issuing a legal document, you are required to use them if you wish it to have any legal weight or merit. If you issue a legal document only to a pseudonym or an alias, it has the legal weight of toilet tissue

[Haylee]

For the record, even if I thought ya'll had a point, poisoning it by deadnaming devs and threatening legal action over a program most of AGN doesn't even use is incredibly silly.

 

Let's ignore the fact that the .pdf file linked isn't even a legal document yet. A forum post linking it that also deadnames said devs ain't a legal document. Don't start pretending it is. Nobody's fooled by you.

[Moosh]

I had not planned to chime in to this for a while, as it serves minimal purpose until various threads reach clarity, however, I am confused here: This is not 'deadnaming', it is declaring legal names on a legal document and showing aliases to disambiguate the subject, as is generally require. Further, are you literally opting out of the license? Your statement seems to indicate that you are. 

 

Note that if you do this, you will never be able to use any ZC product beyond 2.50.2 ever again, and this applies to all forks and side projects that in any way use ZC code released under GPL.

 

This is precisely the position these thieves face at present. They have been given a duration to return to AGN what they have stolen, in order to recover their legal access; and should they refuse, it means permanent termination of their licence. They will not be able to develop, or legally use, the software from that point onwards, and I sincerely doubt any grace will be shown to them thereafter. Other legal woes may follow, but on that it is up to WL. Technically what they have done may constitute multiple counts on at least four felony laws. 

 

I do not advise advocating for doing that, as that can make you an accessory. 

Deedee had no more involvement in the moving process than I did. Unless I'm misremembering, Emily's legal name has already been changed. Neither this forum post nor the Zelda Classic announcements page is a "legal document". You are using made up legalese to form excuses for asshole behavior. This will hold up neither in the court of public opinion or a court of law. Kindly stop making a fool of yourself.

[Sheik]

Until this situation is resolved development of ZC will remain on hold for the time being.

 

This is not the case because:
 

Yes, they are free to develop ZC independently of AGN or any other organization.

And in this light, this 'announcement' amounts to nothing, doesn't it.

[Deedee]

Emily's legal name has been Emily for a while now. Don't deadname her.

As for me, I had no part in the decision, and Gleeok even recognized this when he contacted me, but because I voiced my defense of connor and Emily they are attempting to punish me as well. Prime guilt-by-association at play here.

I still of course defend the current dev team, and as should anyone who has liked ZC's active development over the past two years. AGN has seemed perfectly content to sit back in their corner and look good under the work we have done without contributing anything of substance to the development over the past 7 years; going so far as to be okay with a subpar lead developer helming the project with zero quality control for a majority of that time. Moving the repo off was a miscommunication originally (raise your hand if you believed Nightmare was an owner or executive of ZC), but the nuclear response to us doing so without assuming any good intent has burned any goodwill we've had to them. May respond with more as I dwell on this.