43 replies to this topic

[Haylee]

Meh, you have an opinion that I disagree with, but that's about it. Time based unlocks in a creation game lets players work with the limitations that they've been given, if anything it promotes more creativity. For a game like Mario Maker, 9 days is nothing. It's not going to have as much longevity as making something on the PC, but the game itself is user friendly enough so people can just throw together whatever they want with the limitations that they've been given, without complicated coding, or the need for a tutorial.

 

It's simplistic, which is the appeal, I feel.

[Koh]

That same simplicity will create an oversaturated market.  Lots of mediocre to terrible things (like most movie or book based games), with only a small handful of shiny nuggets that one determined for a decent experience will have to hunt for.  This should sound familiar...

Edited by Koh, 21 August 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[Haylee]

That same simplicity will create an oversaturated market.  Lots of mediocre to terrible things (like most movie or book based games), with only a small handful of shiny nuggets that one determined for a decent experience will have to hunt for.  This should sound familiar...

I'm sorry, what? What does one game have to do with an entire market?

[coolgamer012345]

That same simplicity will create an oversaturated market.  Lots of mediocre to terrible things (like most movie or book based games), with only a small handful of shiny nuggets that one determined for a decent experience will have to hunt for.  This should sound familiar...

I actually know of a thing kinda like that, and isn't PureZC or anything. Not many of the games made on the site I mentioned are... good at all, really. I do wonder though that if it would make making good levels easier, and in tern, make more good levels in total, or if complicated coding/shenanigans would make more good ones, but with less overall levels, though.

Edited by Coolgamer012345, 21 August 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[Koh]

I'm sorry, what? What does one game have to do with an entire market?

No, not the entire video game market, lol.  The playable level market for this thing.

 

It's like this.  There's a ratio.  The easier it is for average Joes and ordinary Jennas to create something, the more of that something there will be.  Whereas the more work it takes for average Joes and ordinary Jennas to create something, the less of it there will be.  So....the easier it is to slap together a Mario game, or Level in this case, the more there will be.  But then it becomes an issue of quality versus quantity.  In these scenarios, there's always far more quantity than there is quality.

 

And I said it should sound familiar, because it should. For example, the iOS/Android playstores.  It's a lot easier to develop apps for those now.   Sounds great for all the good stuff and developers who makes polished works!  However, due to that, there's a buttload of bullshit on there as well, because average Joe or ordinary Jenna decided "Hey, I'm gonna make something today, and shit it into the stores~"

Edited by Koh, 21 August 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[Haylee]

Well, I mean, of course there's going to be bad levels, this even applies to SMW romhacks and SMBX fangames.

 

SMW hacking is one of the simpler things to do out there, as such, some people try to use it, and then there's some people who push out badly designed stuff.

 

Plus, one of the things they used to fix this from my understanding, is that you have to actually beat the level in order to post it to the internet, meaning, you'll get a little bit of mediocrity, rarely an atrocity, and the rest are either pretty good stuff, or great stuff.

 

To put it simply, you're required to give the level a test drive, before throwing it out there for all to see, so I don't think you have much to worry about.

[Shoelace]

1. It can only make 2D Mario Levels

 

I actually think this is why it will sale and do very well.  It is great that it only makes those types, because everything can be polished.  If it went into 3D it would need a totally different engine.  You will have to start messing with cameras and such, it just wouldn't be user friendly, especially for the younger fans.  I wouldn't mind a designer like that, Nintendo doesn't need to waste its resources like that on a Wii U game.  Again, this is the selling point, and it really depends on how creative you can be.

 

2. Console based creation games have less longevity than PC ones

 

Depends.  There hasn't been too many GOOD creation games that hit the market.  Minecraft was definitely the biggest one, and it was because of the marketing and the way you can share with each other.  This is where Nintendo is either going to do good or shoot themselves in the foot.  If they start pulling Youtube videos for example, top Youtubers won't want to play it, and thus the marketing that they would have done would be hurt.  Also, the longevity depends on the system as well.  We all know the Wii U is going to die out soon.  However, if this game will be backwards compatible to the NX, then they can continue getting the success and of course the DLC that you know will be added to this game.

 

The key to this game, is Nintendo needs to be able to make sure people can share.  They need to have the good levels come up in searches.

 

3. Time released secrets are, always were, and always will be a BAD idea

 

Yeah, I don't like this either.  It is there way of teaching people slowly.  However, there should be an option to skip it.  That's my opinion, but it is Nintendo.  With every great decision they always have 3 more head scratchers.  But it is not a make or break thing.

 

4. The Amiibo paywall content doesn't help, either.

 

Amiibo is a money grab.  There is no other way of saying it.  There is no hiding that.  They wouldn't be 12 dollars a pop if it wasn't.  If you don't want it, don't buy it.  For example, I have yet to buy an Amiibo.

[Shane]

 

OK, I'm joking, I'm joking, here's a serious post:

 

I'm with Nexas on this one. Bad and even mediocre stages are going to happen regardless if Mario Maker had a thousand features or just a hundred. We have bad Zelda Classic quests, bad Game Maker games, bad RPG Maker games, and yes bad Mario romhacks and fangames. It's not about the editor, it's about the people who make the stages, and Nintendo is not responsible if they failed to use the tools correctly. This should not be a reason why there should be no official Mario Maker, that's just plain silly and nothing else. Let's take away every game maker ever then. There will bound to be a lot of fun stages anyway, and possibly hidden gems even. Considering this is on Wii U, it should be considered that this maker is only meant for moderation and not something to sit on a daily basis, much like how you can get sick of a fangame/game editor. It's just a fun little anniversary thing, nothing more.

 

I appreciate Nintendo doing the effort of making us such an official editor. If you prefer the community ones, fine, that's your choice so go ahead and use them. No one is stopping you from doing so. But a lot of people like to have something more official and easy to use, and this has both from the looks of things. This will also mean that Nintendo can finally expand from traditional sidescroller Mario games. I personally don't mind waiting for the editor to unlock itself much like how Zelda Classic constantly updated with new features and how any other editor out there constantly updates and upgrades. It keeps players invested, in my eyes.

 

This thread brought up the decision for me: should I get Super Mario Maker? I might get it honestly. I am personally not hyped, but that's because I was never hyped for Mario games to begin with.

[Fabbrizio]

Oh there WILL be, and it will be way better and cheaper than the Wii U version because Nintendo HATES Wii U owners.  Just ask anyone who bought Hyrule Warriors...........

 

I mostly take Hyrule Warriors to mean Nintendo hates Zelda fans in particular.

 

 

On topic, I don't think there was ever meant to be "hype" around Mario Maker. I think it's just a cool, slightly different thing they're trying out. If they were worried about building hype, they would have cashed in a lot sooner. The Super Nintendo could have done this just as well.

Edited by Fabbrizio, 22 August 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

While it doesn't have scripting, I still think we'll be able to accomplish intricate stuff and if Nintendo keeps periodically adding stuff to it every year it will stay fresh. Zelda Classic quests were mostly samey right up until the develepors started releasing public samples of the next version after 2.10. Once that happened the amount of things you could do with Zelda Classic increased exponentially resulting in the now current ZC 2.5.

 

It took many, many years for ZC to get to where it is now, and I wouldn't be surprised if many people are forgetting just how limited ZC 2.10 and older really were, at least without the use of intricate/complex techniques to get the most out of the system. It took many years of development to get ZC quest development to where it is now with hundreds of buggy public interim releases.

 

While quest development got stale around the release of v2.10, I believe that was mostly because the genius quest developers had mostly left by that point. It wasn't until scripting and stuff happened that several of them returned.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 22 August 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[Timelord]

Well, it's specifically for sidescrolling for a few main reasons.  [...]

 

One very important reason, is that Japanese gamers prefer 2D games, in general. The 3D Mario franchise is not very popular there--whereas the NSMB games are quite popular. Essentially, the inverse of 'western' gamer preferences. I'd say the 2D aspect is a key to its appeal, for those of us from older generations, too.

[Koh]

 

 

Even though you were joking this is true.  It's just another repeat of...

[Nicholas Steel]

I'll stir the pot a little: Chart of items/enemies/obstacles etc. NOT included in Mario Maker.
http://www.destructo...er-309123.phtml
https://i.imgur.com/eDoFVeM.jpg (Full size image of chart)
 
A crap ton of things from Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World aren't included, and those 2 games are probably the most popular and most loved games in the entire Mario Bros. catalog (3rd best very obviously being Super Mario Sunshine).

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 04 September 2015 - 07:12 AM.

[Old-Skool]

Hello Anarchy_Balsac, it is nice to see you active on PureZC!

Your point about 2D Mario levels is a solid one, imo. After all, just adding one extra dimension can't be so hard - Minecraft did it. However, you might be assuming too little of Nintendo, which has been pushing for this project for quite some time. I am sure they are well aware of the need for server longevity and will likely keep it up quite some time. 

As for the Amiibos, you should know that the game is compatible with amiibos that were designed for Super Smash Bros, and you do not need to buy brand new ones specifically for this game. You may look at this as an excuse to get people to buy the little figurines by the truckload, or from the perspective that if you already have amiibos that you use in other games, you can continue using them in this one without anything additional.

[Dawnlight]

I think it's better to not immediately find the negatives but take it for what it is and come to a conclusion later. That goes the same for the opposite side as well. We call that hype.  

 

While I won't be getting this game at launch, I would be interested to try it out. I'm not going to let what others say whether positive or negative to determine whether or not I like a particular game. I think the blind approach is the best way for me. That's why I hardly look at message boards or news stories about upcoming games because I want to feel that sense of surprise when I play the game for the first time. 

 

P.S. - I know I may have made rants about certain Nintendo games prior to launch. Some people called me out for it. But that's all in the past.