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Larger 1st Quest?


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#31 Cukeman

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:33 AM

Here's the map I showed before (for comparison):

 https://drive.google...WkZoZTVJVE0yU2M

 

And here's what I've done with Hyrule Field:

https://drive.google...S1ptYzB6Uk5aa1k

 

There's no ground detail. Final trees won't have gray parts. For now I'm using the hollow tree entrance graphics for trees that you burn with a candle; this won't work for the burnable trees on the north side of a tree cluster (south of Level 1 for example), and you can see that I had to relocate the burnable tree on the northernmost screen on the far right of Hyrule Field so it could be approached from the south. Burnable trees might need to be reimagined; we'll see.

 

Enlarging the map really helps to use MC's large tree graphics in the same spaces that Z1 does without filling every screen so Link has no ground space to maneuver. Trying to keep large open spaces for enemy combat was a high priority for me. I added a generous amount of shallow water around the edge of the large pond to help keep space open for movement. And widened some paths between tree clusters (doubly important if I'm using MC sized Moblins).

 

It doesn't look like it, but trying to keep the trees in roughly the same places as Z1 without causing screen edge errors was a very difficult design challenge* and gave me a lot of headaches having to rework screens multiple times.

 

*hence the gray parts of the trees (colored parts are solid)

 

The fairy fountain was a fun design, hiding the fountain in a mini-maze and making a large "Z" for Zelda on the map.

 

There's clearly some more work that can be done on this, I'm not too sure about the rocks for instance; but I'm blocking in the big important stuff to give you a rough idea what I'm doing with this concept. Trying to start by staying as true to Z1 as possible and only reimagining areas that become problematic. Reworking things for purely aesthetic reasons can be done later, once the basics are ironed out.



#32 Reflectionist

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:24 PM

Whoa, that's really cool. The only thing I'm not thrilled about so far is where Z1's original screen transitions are. Can you move them to be completely in one screen or the other? This is still photoshop, yeah?

It looks great so far!
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#33 Cukeman

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:41 PM

Honestly I was kinda thinking some of the screen designs aren't working very well just yet. I think, the way my brain works, I need to cover an area in new graphics before re-designing it, because the original graphics are distracting to me- they make me feel the need to make a literal translation. Once that's done I think I can look at the layout more objectively and make some more radical changes. Making passages on one screen or the other is a great idea, I guess I did that a little bit (south of the fairy fountain), but not enough.


Edited by Cukeman, 25 September 2017 - 03:20 PM.


#34 Cukeman

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 05:52 PM

https://drive.google...NWpJTEZSdzA4SmM

 

Took your advice and solved the open corners. I like it; feels like more of an interpretation.

 

It really helped to think about the following image and add some of the maze-like elements INSIDE what were previously single screens. I feel like I was able to add some new paths without blocking the player off too much. I still want the world to feel as open as the original (which does mean adding new walls and barriers if I'm enlarging the map to 4x the original [or is that 2x?])

 

I also wanted to keep the world from feeling too rigid and mathematical, which is hard to do when you're not including open corners.

 

analysis_06_gates.jpg

 

EDIT: Will no doubt make some minor adjustments as I go along...


Edited by Cukeman, 27 September 2017 - 07:25 PM.

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#35 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:23 PM

Oh, sweet! That looks much better, and still very true to Z1-style screen design.

Are you married to a particular tileset for this project? I could definitely get into this as a full quest, and I saw a thread you had a while back for a Minish Cap based Tileset that looked really promising, but hasn't been updated in a while.

Just curious. :)

Edited by Reflectionist, 28 September 2017 - 10:30 PM.

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#36 Cukeman

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 04:09 AM

Can't work on my Minish Cap Tileset until I buy some computer hardware. I am really fond of MC graphics. Right now I'm just making a blueprint, before building you need supplies, but I'm not estimating supplies before the blueprint is done.


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#37 HeroOfFire

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:39 PM

I've pondered an idea like this ever since I saw the Nine Villages quest that had a massive 3 x 3 map (48 x 24 screen) overworld, partly made up of the Z1 overworld, and partly made up of the Z2 overworld. Sadly, that quest was mostly a 9 dungeon quest and did not have a lot of additional items from normal Z1, so it ended up being a large number of empty screens.

 

A few things to consider are increasing the number of 4-way stair warps for easier travel, or maybe some other means of fast travel.

 

If you are not strictly following Z1 design, a few additional bonus dungeons (maybe the 2nd quest dungeons) can add variety. Some of the 2nd quest levels are also in areas that had very little of interest in 1st quest, to fill in the world a little (though levels 1 and 5 are literally on top of 1st quest locations, so not all of them).

 

Also, if you are increasing the size of the overworld, what are the plans for the dungeons? Will they also be larger in some way?


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#38 Reflectionist

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:28 AM

That's a pretty good point. As of now, I know Cukeman is only speculating the overworld map, but the only real way to 'double' the Z1 Dungeons (without breaking the map setup) would be to give them a second floor. I could see The Eagle playing out a bit like Dodongo's Cavern from Ocarina. At least, if you were to draw out the critical path for each dungeon in approximate 3D, you really only have one point of intersection.

Edited by Reflectionist, 02 October 2017 - 01:30 AM.


#39 Cukeman

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 04:33 AM

Putting the second quest dungeons in the game (theoretically speaking) is a fun idea. Maybe you'd have the entrance guarded by an old man who didn't let you enter until you'd killed Ganon.

 

EDIT: I don't really think of them as empty screens just because they don't have caves, I think of it as twice the journeying/adventuring/battling between dungeons. But I can see your point.


Edited by Cukeman, 02 October 2017 - 04:53 AM.


#40 King Aquamentus

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:38 PM

No, more like stretching out what is already there while at the same time using some of the space to add new areas not explored in the original game.

I actually drew this out once but I dont know what happened to it...


good news!! I found it.

z1_16x16.png
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#41 kurt91

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 04:21 PM

You could probably include the second-quest dungeons without locking them behind defeating Ganon. Why not have the first-quest dungeons include the Triforce pieces, and the second-quest dungeons be used to get the tools to reach the main dungeons, or used to obtain the dungeon entrance keys like in the Game Boy games?

 

Yes, you could just make the 8 main dungeons larger (although I love the multiple-floor quasi-3D idea, and think it should be done as well!), but then you still have the additional wandering around just to get from point A to point B, and it doesn't solve that problem.


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#42 Reflectionist

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:44 AM

Would it be sacrilegous to replace the X number of heart container requirement with a Spiritual Stones type deal? You could use two of the 2nd qst dungeons for those. It would almost be its own side quest.


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