29 replies to this topic

[ShadowTiger]

I am currently in the throes of various fits of pain and anguish, (to put it lightly.) over the following question. After some interesting points in the laws of logic argument, I want to see something.



Suppose I give you a banana. Would you agree that I have just handed you a banana? I will assume you will. (Please don't debate this. That's not the point.)

Now suppose you ask for banana, and I take a bite out of it, (I have peeled it first of course. unsure.gif ) and hand it to you. Have I just handed you a banana, or a half eaten banana?



Please, I beg of you, don't do anything to get off topic. I only want a debate between the two poll choices. And first, I want to hear your opinions before I step into shark-filled waters. There is clearly blood in the water at this point, and I like my feet a lot.

[LinktheMaster]

Hmm, is this supposed to be an optimist/ pessimist thread? If it is, it's quite an ingenious way to make it.

I would think of it as a regular banana. I mean, you can take the part you bit off of. Then, bam, you got yourself a banana. Sure, some is missing, but a banana is a banana (man it felt strange typing that ).

[link3505]

it's a bannana, weather it's been half eaten or not. a half eaten bannana would be describing the state of the bannana, not what it is

[ShadowTiger]

Hm. That's what I had thought as well. Very similar to how if I ask you for a piece of paper, you would give me a whole paper, or rip off a piece of the paper and hand it to me? Because it can be said that if paper comes from a bundle, and you ask for a piece from the bundle, they won't rip off a piece, but give you a whole sheet, because technically, that's a "piece" of the paper.

This gets a little bit off topic, but I think the overall idea you'll soon see will be useful. Imagine if you will, two pieces of rope. One is smaller, and another is larger. Another piece of rope then inches its way into the screen, which is larger than the larger piece of rope. Then another one comes along, slightly larger than the previously largest one. Is the bigger piece of rope still bigger? No, but it once was.

You can define terms using such an example. Remember that something doesn't necessarily have to have the same title just because it's either changed or remained the same. It must be analyzed next to its surroundings and circumstances. Hell, even its circumstances can be fooled if you phrase your argument well enough. I personally hate that about arguments, but what can you do?

[Hunter P Brown]

It's a banana, no matter what. It may be half eaten, but a banana overall. I would probably eat it if I knew you were sick (after blowing on it), since it's a banana. Works for me.

[plith]

Let me get this straight...

You're agonizing over whether a banana is a banana? This is just a question of the abuse of the universally known fact that human language is imperfect at best.

I'll be perfectly frank. Here's what your post looks like to me. You just started classes in college. You're probably taking an entry-level philosophy class. You probably just studied a bit on Aristotle, hence the A is A and Noncontradiction stuff in your last thread. And you just feel the burning desire to share it because to you it seems like a revolutionary new concept that no one else ever thinks of.

Not saying that this is necessarily why, but it is how it appears from my vantage point. I really do worry sometimes that you try too often to come across as intellectual. Something about the forced nature of your topics.

So, the long version of the short answer: there is an objective truth as to the essence of the banana, which covers all forms of existence of that banana, from conceptualized to half-eaten. The truth of its reality doesn't change. When the term "banana" applies to both the unpeeled and the half-eaten forms of the object, we admit that it is caused by our limited and subjective understanding of the object and our inability to express complete objective truth once it has been processed by our minds.

Edit: Oh yes, and I null voted because both options are true. They are not mutually exclusive, if one is working on a particular understanding of the situation.

[Radien]

My answer would be "mmmf," as I would have eaten the half-banana banana.

[Exate]

Nothing changes the fact it is and always will be a banana. Peeled or unpeeled, still a banana. I don't see how you could peel and bite a banana, then say, "This isn't a banana! It's a half-eaten banana!" That's like saying "It's not a banana! It's a full unpeeled banana!" And if that were so, "banana" would not exist.

It still is one, bitten or not.

[Shoelace]

Well, first of all it will always be a banana. That does not change. However, now you have a half eaten banana. Keyword in that sentence, banana. But at the same time it is half eaten. So in conclusion it is now a half eaten banana. Which is not the same as a regular non eaten banana, that you had to begin with.

[Neppy]

I would have to say that it is no longer a banana, as half of it if missing. I would say it is a bana. That would seem to be fairly logical to me.

[Shoelace]

I would have to say that it is no longer a banana, as half of it if missing. I would say it is a bana. That would seem to be fairly logical to me.

Actually Hero Link, if it was half a banana, it would be ban, not banana.

You know, I must on crack. That was lame.

[Neppy]

That is a very good point Shoelace. It would be a ban. I don't know were I got the bana idea. Thanks for your help.

[Radien]

So you just handed me a ban? Some friend you are... and I thought you were a nice moderator...

[Neppy]

Why would you accept a half-eaten banana? That would be pretty gross. I think there is a technical term for half-eaten banana, and it would be Half-eaten banana, not Ban.

[Radien]

A banana is such that even if you take a bite out of it, you need only touch it to your teeth and break the rest off, in which case you hardly touch it. As long as it wasn't mushed around or sitting somewhere, it would be alright.

And anyway, come on, are you saying Josh is gross or something?