25 replies to this topic

[Plissken]

Catering to every single person who asks for some different quality in a quest is impossible. So...no, he's the deal. How about I do it the way I want to since I'm taking the time to actually make an entire game, and how about you go look for already easy completed quests and stop whining how majority of the quests are to hard for you.

[jerome]

Best to stay away from any of my quests(demos) too, as they are ridiculously hard.

As having played 3 of them, I think you've understated yourself on the ridiculously hard!

For those that thought ANY quest is too difficult on purezc or agn, try Gleeok's Dungeon Impossible on AGN.

It is not named that for show either.

By the way WoopsieDaisy (or whoever started the topic), I don't recommend Dungeon Impossible as an easy quest. Unless you mean easy to die, then it's perfect!

EDIT: WoooBlaaa -I knew it was Woo something.

Edited by jerome, 03 June 2008 - 04:57 PM.

[DarkFlameSheep]

I think if you couldn't beat official 2nd quest, you mightn't enjoy ZC. Though, I believe a lot of no hard quest in DB.

Edited by Nameless, 03 June 2008 - 07:49 PM.

[SofaKing]

Level 11 in the 2004 update of New Quest is the hardest dungeon I've ever encountered. I got but a few rooms in before I threw in the towel. It's unreal. Level 10 in New Quest 2 is also a toughie, but I battled through that one.

[DarkFlameSheep]

Level 11 in the 2004 update of New Quest is the hardest dungeon I've ever encountered. I got but a few rooms in before I threw in the towel. It's unreal. Level 10 in New Quest 2 is also a toughie, but I battled through that one.

Is they harder than original AQ?

Edited by Nameless, 03 June 2008 - 10:40 PM.

[vravelo]

WoooBlaaa..! its raining boiling rocks on this thread you started!
.
Next time you get intoxicated by any hard quest,...better talk easy, no hard!

[Accr89]

I agree with Peteo's statement on pg 1. When you play a new ZC quest there is no reason to have a fuss over a game that is to hard. A true ZC player is just motivated to start a game, but once we start there is no turning back you beat the quest no matter what the cost. Once most of the pro's start we have to drive yourselfs to beat the game, solve new challenging puzzles, and defeat tougher enemy battles. Even If you get stuck in a certain parts of a game there is always a help thread for every game. So enjoy Zeldaclassic!!!

[Radien]

Sheesh, guys. Lay off of him. You know, he makes a few good points. The thread title may be one that's intended to attract attention by questioning the way a number of people do their quests, but he didn't name names and also hasn't argued with anyone yet since he's still only posted once.

The immediate response to complaints about difficulty shouldn't always be "you're a sucky player," even if you say you're joking. Yes, different difficulty levels cater to different players, BUT... a really difficult, really good game will make the player tear their hair out, then keep coming back for more masochistic goodness.

That's how my sister was when I introduced her to Alundra. I was like, "I think you'll like this game's story, but I'm not sure you want to try playing it..." Well, she did try it, and found it twice as hard as I did (mind you, it was no cakewalk for me). But the challenge satisfied her rather than repelled her, and now it's one of her favorites.

DFW:

I think you need to be a bit nicer over there, joking or not. I remember that you complained about being confused by Master Quest. By the same token, I could pull the "belittle" card and imply that you just aren't "good" enough of a player to appreciate it...

...but that would be presumptuous and unfair. Even a good player has varying levels of patience when tackling different types of challenges. The designer needs to do his/her best to draw the player in, just as the player needs to be willing to give the quest a fair chance, and even when both people are good at what they do, a connection isn't always made.

WoooBlaaa:

In case you hadn't guessed, I think you make some good points. In the past I've been guilty of thinking I was really clever for making the player trek halfway across the overworld just to get the wooden sword....but I've seen the error in my ways, and in the re-release of Master Quest, I gave it to you at the start of the game and moved on. (But hey, at least I didn't make you play through a whole blasted dungeon just to get it in the original version...I'm glad I didn't go that far.)

All-in-all, I agree that the challenge level of ZC quests is -- on average -- a bit beyond what I'd consider good game design. But on the other hand, I find that commercially released games are -- on average -- a bit too easy. I think both could find a happy medium by having a smooth, constant incline of difficulty and giving additional challenges for the more daring players to tackle. Some of the better games on the market do this; it can add a lot of replay value.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Sheesh, guys. Lay off of him. You know, he makes a few good points. The thread title may be one that's intended to attract attention by questioning the way a number of people do their quests, but he didn't name names and also hasn't argued with anyone yet since he's still only posted once.

The immediate response to complaints about difficulty shouldn't always be "you're a sucky player," even if you say you're joking. Yes, different difficulty levels cater to different players, BUT... a really difficult, really good game will make the player tear their hair out, then keep coming back for more masochistic goodness.

That's how my sister was when I introduced her to Alundra. I was like, "I think you'll like this game's story, but I'm not sure you want to try playing it..." Well, she did try it, and found it twice as hard as I did (mind you, it was no cakewalk for me). But the challenge satisfied her rather than repelled her, and now it's one of her favorites.

DFW:

I think you need to be a bit nicer over there, joking or not. I remember that you complained about being confused by Master Quest. By the same token, I could pull the "belittle" card and imply that you just aren't "good" enough of a player to appreciate it...

...but that would be presumptuous and unfair. Even a good player has varying levels of patience when tackling different types of challenges. The designer needs to do his/her best to draw the player in, just as the player needs to be willing to give the quest a fair chance, and even when both people are good at what they do, a connection isn't always made.

WoooBlaaa:

In case you hadn't guessed, I think you make some good points. In the past I've been guilty of thinking I was really clever for making the player trek halfway across the overworld just to get the wooden sword....but I've seen the error in my ways, and in the re-release of Master Quest, I gave it to you at the start of the game and moved on. (But hey, at least I didn't make you play through a whole blasted dungeon just to get it in the original version...I'm glad I didn't go that far.)

All-in-all, I agree that the challenge level of ZC quests is -- on average -- a bit beyond what I'd consider good game design. But on the other hand, I find that commercially released games are -- on average -- a bit too easy. I think both could find a happy medium by having a smooth, constant incline of difficulty and giving additional challenges for the more daring players to tackle. Some of the better games on the market do this; it can add a lot of replay value.

Oh, Radien, I LOVE you! :3

Now, I think the problem is with the experienced questmakers... You look at the screens and say "This must be a good game, cause the maker seems to be very experienced in what he/she does."
Now... Sure, it may be a good game, but you have to remember that the questmaker probably makes the quest after his or hers own player skills.
I personally think Lost Isle is WAY too hard for me... but I still keep charging forwards... Cause it's a damn good quest.

[Schwa]

Now... Sure, it may be a good game, but you have to remember that the questmaker probably makes the quest after his or hers own player skills.

Quoted for truth. I think we're all guilty of this. All of us. Furthermore I don't think we can help it that well either... I say it's just a human thing. Companies like Nintendo have whole teams of people making their games, while we do things solo, and so for us we only have our own point-of-views to go by when adjusting things like the difficulty and gameplay experience and such. Of course we CAN put ourselves in the player's shoes if we tried, but for the most part a solo game designer uses his own perspective without thinking about it. That's my opinion anyway.

That's why I say people like the legendary Pixel, who created Cave Story, were such prodigies. He really put his mind inside of the player's when he made his game... Cave Story could pass as a commercial game, with that kind of quality.

Back on topic though... >_<

[Nicholas Steel]

It feels like players these days have no skill and patience anymore. It is impossible to satisfy all gamers. I try to make my games average difficulty so that it would be just perfect for as many people as possible, but still I get lots of comments from hardcore players saying the quest is too easy and then these players with poor skills or patience whine that "your quest is impossible!!". Sigh. That's just the way it is, no offence but it sounds like that the thread starter couldn't even beat a childishly easy game like Wind Waker....

Well design your quests for the casual hardcore players

jokes aside (^ cant be both people !) I found DarkFlameWolf's Origin quest on any difficulty other then easy, too tedius to be fun. however the Easy version had interesting dungeons and puzzles, but simply ws that bit too easy... 'tis a fine line between tough and easy >.>

Pretty much every other quest DFW has made has been great though if not sometimes too confusing xD but that is rare.


EDIT: Petoe, if you remake Megaman: Dr. Wily's revenge DC, you MUST make it so chests stay open once they have been opened!!! it is possibly the most annoying thing and doesnt help people solve the maze like dungeons having them close when you return later!

Edited by franpa, 04 June 2008 - 08:01 AM.