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PureZC's Science and Astronomy Class


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#16 Red Phazon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 12:07 AM

QUOTE(LostInHyru1e @ Mar 6 2008, 09:37 PM) View Post

"White Holes", holes that spontaneously spit the matter the Black Holes suck up.

I always thought of these only as black holes in reverse time.

Well there's something interesting I want to actually discuss, but I can't say it has to do with astronomy. It is related though. Well if it becomes relevant I'll bring it up.

Well meanwhile, I have a problem with these black holes. At one critical point, it suddenly becomes impossible for any bit of matter to escape past the event horizon. "The effort required to leave the hole becomes infinite, with no escape velocity definable." (Wikipedia) Would this mean that it then takes and infinite amount of work, or energy, to escape? (or not even?) Now then, energy = mass...

Know what? I forgot where I was going with this. icon_sorry.gif Something about the singularity...
I'll come back to it once I do some reading and look at my notes from physics class. I'm forgetting too much.

#17 Rocksfan13

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE(TheMasterSwordsman @ Mar 6 2008, 10:28 PM) View Post
Binary star systems would be nice. icon_razz.gif

I like this thread.

I'm glad you do.

Binary Star:

QUOTE
A binary star is a stellar system consisting of two stars orbiting around their center of mass. For each star, the other is its companion star. Recent research suggests that a large percentage of stars are part of systems with at least two stars. Binary star systems are very important in astrophysics, because observing their mutual orbits allows their mass to be determined. The masses of many single stars can then be determined by extrapolations made from the observation of binaries.

Binary stars are not the same as optical double stars, which appear to be close together as seen from Earth, but may not be bound noticeably by gravity. Binary stars can either be distinguished optically (visual binaries) or by indirect techniques, such as spectroscopy. If binaries happen to orbit in a plane containing our line of sight, they will eclipse each other; these are called eclipsing binaries.

Systems consisting of more than two components, known as multiple stars, are also not uncommon and are generally classified under the same name. The components of binary star systems can exchange mass, bringing their evolution to stages that single stars cannot attain. Examples of binaries are Algol (an eclipsing binary), Sirius, and Cygnus X-1 (of which one member is probably a black hole).


~Excerpt from Wikipedia
There's a whole lot more on these here on Wiki.

Binary star systems are widely used in science fiction. Personally, I can see why. To have more than one star in a system would be a neat sight.

White Hole:

QUOTE
In astrophysics, a white hole is the time reversal of a black hole. While a black hole acts as an absorber for any matter that crosses the event horizon, a white hole acts as a source that ejects matter from its event horizon. The sign of the acceleration is invariant under time reversal, so both black and white holes attract matter. The only potential difference between them is in the behavior at the horizon.

Stephen Hawking has argued that white holes are the same as black holes, once quantum mechanics is taken into account.

Relation to quantum mechanical black holes
Black hole horizons can only absorb matter, while white hole horizons ostensibly recede from any incoming matter at the local speed of light, so that the infalling matter never crosses. The infalling matter is then scattered and reemitted at the death of the white hole, receding to infinity after having come very very close to the final singular point where the white hole is destroyed. The total proper time until an infalling object encounters the singular endpoint is the same as the proper time to be swallowed by a black hole, so the white hole picture does not say what happens to the infalling matter. Ignoring the classically unpredictable emissions of the white hole, the white hole and black hole are indistinguishable for external observers.

In quantum mechanics, the black hole emits Hawking radiation, and so can come to thermal equilibrium with a gas of radiation. Since a thermal equilbrium state is time reversal invariant, Hawking argued that the time reverse of a black hole in thermal equilibrium is again a black hole in thermal equilibrium.[1] This implies that black holes and white holes are the same object. The Hawking radiation from an ordinary black hole is then identified with the white hole emission. Hawking's semi-classical argument is reproduced in a quantum mechanical AdS/CFT treatment[2], where a black hole in anti-de Sitter space is described by a thermal gas in a gauge theory, whose time reversal is the same as itself.

Origin
White holes appear as part of the vacuum solution to the Einstein field equations describing a Schwarzschild wormhole. One end of this type of wormhole is a black hole, drawing in matter, and the other is a white hole, emitting matter. While this gives the impression that black holes in our universe may connect to white holes elsewhere, in reality, this is untrue, for two reasons. First, Schwarzschild wormholes are unstable, disconnecting as soon as they form. Second, Schwarzschild wormholes are only a solution to the Einstein field equations in vacuum (when no matter interacts with the hole). Real black holes are formed by the collapse of stars. When the infalling stellar matter is added to a diagram of a black hole's history, it removes the part of the diagram corresponding to the white hole [1].

The existence of white holes that are not part of a wormhole is doubtful, as they appear to violate the second law of thermodynamics.

Quasars and active galactic nuclei are observed to spew out jets of matter. This is now believed to be the result of polar jets formed when matter falls into supermassive black holes at the centers of these objects. Prior to this model, white holes emitting matter were one possible explanation proposed.

Recent speculations
A more recently proposed view of black holes might be interpreted as shedding some light on the nature of classical white holes. Some researchers proposed that when a black hole forms, a big bang occurs at the core which creates a new universe that expands into extra dimensions outside of the parent universe[3]. See also Fecund universes.

The initial feeding of matter from the parent universe's black hole and the expansion that follows in the new universe might be thought of as a cosmological type of white hole. Unlike traditional white holes, this type of white hole would not be localized in space in the new universe and its horizon would have to be identified with the cosmological horizon.


~Excerpt from Wikipedia

Apparently white holes are theorized as such Link 75. And the creation of a black hole is the creation of another dimensional universe within our own. With the number of known black holes, thats got to be quite a lot.



#18 Russ

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 10:22 AM

A big bang inside a black hole could casue other universes the form? Wow, that's amazing! I am going to research this a lot now.

#19 Rocksfan13

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:07 PM

Ok. Here's one to discuss.

We all think about how cool it would be to have laser guns, phasers, disruptors, and the like right? Just like in all of the Scifi movies?

Well, let's take a look at the scientific part of it shall we?

A laser is without a doubt a beam of light, correct?
The same with phasers, disruptors, and the all favorite light saber.
Ok. The issue here is:
How would you see it? Can we see a beam of light, save in a dense fog or dust? No. We can only see the light when it has either stopped traveling by hitting an object that cannot reflect, like a wall. We only see it in a mirror because we see the reflection directly. At an angle, we cannot.
So, how would you know that someone has effectively shot a laser beam at you or anything for that matter? You wouldn't see the beam, like in the movies.
And more so, how would you be able to evade said beam if you could see it?
Can you move faster than the speed of light? (1,079,252,849 km/h) or (670,615,342.78313 mph)
Don't get me wrong, they would be deadly weapons, but you wouldn't be able to see it.
An alternate solution may be plasma. But, could plasma have the same effect? At least you can see plasma.

Now discuss...

#20 Russ

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:12 PM

Basically, if lazer guns were invented, you wouldn't be able to dodge them or see them. Plasma, on the other hand, would be see-able, but would still probably travel to fast for you to dodge it.

#21 Rocksfan13

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:18 PM

Just the fact that you can see the beams alone takes away the coolness of having such things. You won't see the beams shooting across the room or the saber swinging in the hands of it's user.
It would basically look like someone trying to shoot a bad scifi movie with the help of visual effects.

#22 Rocksfan13

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:48 AM

I know. It's been a while. I've been rather busy. icon_heh.gif

In the news today:

QUOTE(Yahoo)
MADRID (AFP) - Spanish astronomers Wednesday announced the discovery of the smallest planet discovered to date outside the solar system, located 30 light years from earth.


The rest of the article can be found here.

So, discuss what you think about this discovery and any others that may be plausable..


#23 trucky5

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:04 AM

How could they have found it outside of our solar system? There aren't any satellites that have traveled that far yet, right? That's amazing. Considering we haven't even been anywhere near the edge of our solar system, it's pretty cool that we could discover a planet from outside of our solar system. I always wondered if something would happen.

You know that satellite that has been sent to take pics of Pluto? What if, when it left our solar system, was intercepted by so called "aliens" and was used against us? I know aliens probably aren't real but if they were that could be bad icon_razz.gif



#24 Alestance

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 06:10 AM

Extra terrestrial life does exist, and intelligent extra terrestrial life has a chance for living too.

#25 Rocksfan13

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 07:18 AM

QUOTE(trucky5 @ Apr 11 2008, 01:04 AM) View Post
How could they have found it outside of our solar system? There aren't any satellites that have traveled that far yet, right? That's amazing. Considering we haven't even been anywhere near the edge of our solar system, it's pretty cool that we could discover a planet from outside of our solar system. I always wondered if something would happen.

If you read the article, it tells you that they found it with a telescope.

QUOTE
You know that satellite that has been sent to take pics of Pluto? What if, when it left our solar system, was intercepted by so called "aliens" and was used against us? I know aliens probably aren't real but if they were that could be bad icon_razz.gif

I kinda thought that's what Voyager was for.






#26 Eurysilas

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 02:24 PM

This article is apparently wrong. Smaller planets have apparently been found orbiting pulsars. What the scientists truly meant when announcing this story is that it is the smallest planet found orbiting a sun-like star. But even that is debatable.

Source:

http://science.slash...10/202210.shtml (in the comments)

Gotta love Slashdot.

#27 Siguy

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 09:33 PM

Detecting extrasolar planets (exoplanets) is possible and has been going on for years. The first exoplanets discovered were discovered in 1996 or something like that orbiting the pulsar (neutron star) PSR-1257+12 (yes, I memorized that icon_razz.gif.) Pulsars are neutron stars (extremely dense collapsed cores of massive stars that underwent supernova) that emit electromagnetic radiation of all frequencies in pulses as they rotate. The planets were discovered because of the timing of the radiation and them eclipsing it. They are cold, barren, dead rocky bodies that have been stripped away by the supernova of their parent star and are now very, very ancient.

Since then the discovery of exoplanets has become very frequent. They are discovered all the time by various methods by amateur and professional astronomers alike. The easiest method is detecting transiting extrasolar planets. These are large (Jupiter mass and larger) planets which orbit their stars at close distances and eclipse them periodically. They are detected by software which monitors the brightness of large fields of stars and detect those that dim for a short time. It is a very straightforward method, but the planets detected are huge gas giants burning away at distances as little as .5 astronomical units or something like that from their stars. Not hospitable for life under any circumstances. The best advantage of this method is that it allows for spectrography of the planets' atmospheres to determine their chemical composition. The first instance of water detected outside our solar system was in the atmosphere of a large gas giant orbiting closely to its star.

Direct observation of planets is tricky, and has not been conclusively conducted. First of all, planets light years away are very, very dim. Even planets larger than Jupiter are easily washed away by the intense brightness of their parent star. They have to be huge planets orbiting tiny stars over tremendous distances of thousands of astronomical units. Some infrared images show objects of far less than stellar but near brown dwarf mass orbiting brown dwarfs. These are hard to classify as planets because they are very large and orbit very far away from their stars. They are more like binary brown dwarf systems.

I don't know about other methods of detecting exoplanets like gravitational microlensing an whatnot, but look it up on Wikipedia or something.

The spacecraft meant to take pictures of Pluto is the New Horizons probe, which won't be at Pluto for a while, but it has already given us some gorgeous pictures of Jupiter (it might have been Saturn, I don't remember.)

#28 Arthas

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:22 AM

Extra-solar planets are found by observing the behaviour of that system's star. If there is a slight wobble in the star, then it is being influenced by another mass in it's vicinity. Depending on the nature of the gravitational wobble, one can surmise a few things about any possible planets/masses orbiting that star.

Imagine yourself spinning around in one spot. Now imagine yourself doing the same thing but with a 20kg weight on your left shoulder, your spin will be distorted. More masses at varying points will induce even more distortion or wobble to your ballerina dance. By analyzing it all carefully, an outside observer, just by seeing you but not the masses, can find out how many weights are acting on you, approximately how massive those weights are, and so on.

As telescopes improve, we will one day be able to directly see/detect these extra-solar planets. Until then we will have to rely on the much trickier method. But hey it seems to work, although we can't really learn anything about those planets aside from their mass, and that they're there.

#29 Rocksfan13

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 07:16 AM

In Yahoo news today:

QUOTE(Yahoo)
Nico Marquardt used telescopic findings from the Institute of Astrophysics in Potsdam (AIP) to calculate that there was a 1 in 450 chance that the Apophis asteroid will collide with Earth, the Potsdamer Neuerster Nachrichten reported.


Apparently a boy of 13 years of age has corrected something that could spell the end to it all.
Here's the full article.
Apparently it's based on whether it hits something as it goes by. I'm not too sure on this. The fact that hitting something could alter it's trajectory that much? I dunno.

What do you guys think?


#30 Rocksfan13

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:06 PM

Look up to the stars in the comming months!

Mercury is due to make a rare appearence.

Excerpt from Yahoo featured!
QUOTE
Mercury just passed superior conjunction on April 16, but in the days to come it will bolt out to become easily visible low in the west-northwest at dusk. On Wednesday evening, April 23, Mercury should be visible within about 30 minutes after sunset if your sky is quite clear. Mercury will be shining at magnitude 1.6, slightly brighter than Sirius (the brightest of all stars). In fact, at that particular hour of the day, Mercury will be the brightest object in the sky!


I'm gonna look for it. Are you?



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