237 replies to this topic

[NoeL]

I'm not so sure about that.  It's obviously still Zelda, so they could still snag this.  Even just replacing Link with some random character, but keeping the tiles would be pushing it.

If you're suggesting what I think you are (replacing Link but leaving all the other original art assets intact)... yeah of course that's not going to float. Why would you think it would? If you replaced all the graphics and sounds you should be good legally though. You might have to stop distributing the 1st/2nd quest files even if they use the new assets, and of course you'd need to change the name of the program and the splash image etc.

[Timelord]

Desktop publishing and digital broadcasting is what pushed standards to actually be adhered to more strictly.

 

Sorry, that was meant to be sarcasm. That's the problem with the lack of voice in a written language: While Japanese includes voice, English doesn't...

 

I'm not so sure about that.  It's obviously still Zelda, so they could still snag this.  Even just replacing Link with some random character, but keeping the tiles would be pushing it.

 

So how goes the progress now?  Keep us abreast.

 

There are too many other games, including contemporary NES & FC games that have an engine almost identical to Zelda no Densetsu (e.g. Adian no Tsue, and Spiritual\ Warfare) to ever give Nintendo a legitimate claim for the game engine, whoch is essentially an improvement on similar engines, like those in Ys, and in Hydlide, and any quests made as fanwork fall under Parody, and other Berne rights.

 

Only the actual remakes of 1st.qst and 2nd.qdt are actually in direct violation of any laws, and as they have been around as long as ZC has been extant, for fifteen years, I don't think that Nintendo have much of a case, nor would I expect any kind of takedown notices. Further, any such effort would not be effective; as people would continue to distribute ZC in some form, despite any effort to smother it; and any effrt to do so would actually increase hte popularity of ZC as 'warez'. (Does anyone still use that term?)

 

Really, ZC doesn't harm Nintendo in any way, and keeps their Zelda franchise alive, between releases;particularly between 2D releases, which are rare now.

 

I'm pretty sure that Nintendo see the benefit outweighs any potential losses of DS and Wii Store emulation downloads of the original game; and besides that, people that run ZC will still buy the original game, in any format.

 

(off-topic)

 

Could someone explain to me, because I'm stupid, me why Hikari Shinwa: Palthena no Kagami (a.k.a. 'Kid Icarus') received a 3D treatment and re-release for the 3DS, while neither Zelda game, nor either any of the genuine Super Mario bros., nor either the real Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic or the international 'Super Mario bros. 2' received any similar remakes in a 3D format.F

 

Or that matter, why haven;t Nintendo released the FC 3-D system games for the 3DS? Falsion 3-D and JJ : Tobidase Daisakusen II, are prime examples of games that could be ported to the 3DS with superb impact, as they were already stereoscopic 3D games on release in 1987/88.

 

I also think that the 3DS would be a fantastic platform for ports of vector arcade games, as the dual image could be realised into more realistic vector lines, especially for Asteroids Deluxe, which used a mirror above an overlay to create a pseudo 3-D effect (on the upright coin-op cabinets).

 

(/off-topic)

 

Nintendo haven't tried to stop distribution of Oulands either, and you can be certain they are aware of both ZC and Outlands. I think that sends a clear, if silent message, that both projects meet with their approval as fan community contributions.

 

I'm actually more shocked that Nintendo haven't tried to buy ZC outright, and distribute the programme commercially.  That would at least make sense, as it would give them a platform for custom games, and for easily making games for other platforms, encroaching on the desktop computing market, in addition to the console market.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 13 April 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[DragonDePlatino]

I'm not so sure about that.  It's obviously still Zelda, so they could still snag this.  Even just replacing Link with some random character, but keeping the tiles would be pushing it.
 
So how goes the progress now?  Keep us abreast.

Progress on Koten is going smoothly...I've never been that great at promoting my art when money isn't involved (just take a look at my deviantART page) so I've been focusing less on promotion and more on the tileset itself...you can see how many pages I've finished at the top of the OP and I'll be doing my best to submit screens in SoTW. And as a matter of fact, I actually have a screenshot being accepted in SoTW 451 right now!
 

 Well, I guess I'm just going to have to admit defeat here! I have experience working with both palettes, but as far as research goes you have me trumped. For it's price tag, the NES had pretty great graphics and at least it looked a lot nicer than the ZX Spectrum. I mean...My god, that could possibly be the ugliest system I've ever seen.

Could someone explain to me, because I'm stupid, me why Hikari Shinwa: Palthena no Kagami (a.k.a. 'Kid Icarus') received a 3D treatment and re-release for the 3DS, while neither Zelda game, nor either any of the genuine Super Mario bros., nor either the real Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic or the international 'Super Mario bros. 2' received any similar remakes in a 3D format.

I'm actually more shocked that Nintendo haven't tried to buy ZC outright, and distribute the programme commercially.  That would at least make sense, as it would give them a platform for custom games, and for easily making games for other platforms, encroaching on the desktop computing market, in addition to the console market.

I think I'm going to have to admit defeat, here. I've worked with the C64 palettes and NES palettes quite a bit, but you've really done your research. Eh, I probably shouldn't even talk about these systems like I know anything since I'm a generation past them. So yeah, the NES had great graphics for it's price tag and at least it looked better than the ZX Spectrum! I mean, my god. That must have been the ugliest system ever conceived.

Well, Kid Icarus never got a re-vamped rerelease while the SMB games got Super Mario All-Stars and Zelda got the Satellaview games. It really only figures that Kid Icarus would get some time in the spotlight after only getting a VC release. And really, would we need another retro Mario rerelease? The new 2D Mario games are so dang similar that there's no reason Nintendo would need to go back and rehash those old games...Again. That's what we have Super Mario All Stars 25th Anniversary Edition for!

Oh, wow. Nintendo buying out Zelda Classic and selling it? I'd buy it! It'd be like RPG Maker! And from what I know of, this kind of thing has been done before. A while ago, Capcom snatched Street Fighter X Mega Man and published it because a certain someone hated Mega Man too much to make their own game for the anniversary.

[anikom15]

I'm not so sure about that. It's obviously still Zelda, so they could still snag this. Even just replacing Link with some random character, but keeping the tiles would be pushing it.

No, if that were the case fan art would be illegal. As long as you're not selling the tiles or otherwise using them for commercial purposes, trademark does not apply. Even if it did, the only questionable tiles are Link's. Everything else is either not trademarked or generic enough in appearance to be clear so long as the names (e.g. Zelda, Ganon) are not mentioned.

Also I don't think Nintendo is much interested in selling software that runs primarily on a Microsoft operating system they've no control over.

Edited by anikom15, 13 April 2014 - 05:27 PM.

[Timelord]

Progress on Koten is going smoothly...I've never been that great at promoting my art when money isn't involved (just take a look at my deviantART page) so I've been focusing less on promotion and more on the tileset itself...you can see how many pages I've finished at the top of the OP and I'll be doing my best to submit screens in SoTW. And as a matter of fact, I actually have a screenshot being accepted in SoTW 451 right now!
 

I think I'm going to have to admit defeat, here. I've worked with the C64 palettes and NES palettes quite a bit, but you've really done your research. Eh, I probably shouldn't even talk about these systems like I know anything since I'm a generation past them. So yeah, the NES had great graphics for it's price tag and at least it looked better than the ZX Spectrum! I mean, my god. That must have been the ugliest system ever conceived.

Well, Kid Icarus never got a re-vamped rerelease while the SMB games got Super Mario All-Stars and Zelda got the Satellaview games. It really only figures that Kid Icarus would get some time in the spotlight after only getting a VC release. And really, would we need another retro Mario rerelease? The new 2D Mario games are so dang similar that there's no reason Nintendo would need to go back and rehash those old games...Again. That's what we have Super Mario All Stars 25th Anniversary Edition for!

Oh, wow. Nintendo buying out Zelda Classic and selling it? I'd buy it! It'd be like RPG Maker! And from what I know of, this kind of thing has been done before. A while ago, Capcom snatched Street Fighter X Mega Man and published it because a certain someone hated Mega Man too much to make their own game for the anniversary.

 
I think you accidentally replaced part of the text that you quoted (my post) with text that you intended to have in your own (above). Juat for clarification, I'm guessing that when yu pressed the quote button, that you began typing, inside the quote box, as I never wrote this:
 
 

 Well, I guess I'm just going to have to admit defeat here! I have experience working with both palettes, but as far as research goes you have me trumped. For it's price tag, the NES had pretty great graphics and at least it looked a lot nicer than the ZX Spectrum. I mean...My god, that could possibly be the ugliest system I've ever seen.

 
There were a few Spectrum titles that used the graphical capabilities wisely. The main failing point of the spectrum was in placing colour blocks together, but there are some titles that actually look nice in this fashion. The isometric games were rather cult classics, and the only real advantage was that all graphics needed a lot of detail to make them passable, which was possible with the high-res mode. Other contemporary computers also only supported high-resolution modes, but only in monochrome, with absolutely no colour information (only luminosity); and the Spectrum, as a low-end system, did do some interesting things
 
The key was to ensure that you designed something with the limits of the system in mind. Many ports did not do this... One look at the Spectrum version of 'Bubble Bobble' will tell you what you shouldn't try to do.
 
The Amstrad CPC was another very flexible system, following the C64 by two years, and the NES/FC by on year, with quite intensive graphical capabilities.
 
What really made the NES/FC shine was the ease of implementing game scrolling, although some developers seemingly never managed to do that, despite that it was a system designed for scrolling. One attempt at laying Kakefu Kun no Jump Tengoku: Speed Jigoku (released internationally as 'Kid Cool', for whatever reason) will show you that it is just as possible to ruin the NES with bad programming, as it is to make great games.
 
I have found that video game scrolling fits into five categoires:

• 
  
• No scrolling, single-screen.
• Screen-switching, such as in Zelda no Densetsu, and Super mario bros. Special
• Broken, or Choppy Scrolling, such as in Kakefu Kun no Jump Tengoku: Speed Jigoku
• Random scrolling rates, such as most Colour Dreams games
• Smooth Scrolling, as in SMB.

The C64 was fine with options (1) and (2), but not so much with option (5). Most games with scrolling using the VIC-II were choppy, but it is actually possible to make games scroll in a nice manner, including fast-scrolling, on the VIC-II, although it isn't easy
 
Most computer programmers, in the 1980s, were not video game programmers: The computer game, and the console game, were received quite differently, but a community with a radically different mindset, and thus, attempts by people used to making computer games, at trying to replicate console games from 3rd Generation systems (NES/FC/SMS) were often dismal failures.
 
Surprisingly, while in a monochrome scale, Spectrum games are often quite colourful, with a vector-esque appeal. As to which system at the time had the best colour, and graphical control in their video chipset, prior to 1985, I'd say that the NES/FC, the C64, and the and the Amstrad CPC were at the top of the chain. 1985 pushed the bar up, with the Sega Mk III, and the CBM A1000 products, and the following push toward 16-bit graphical architectures, is well documented elsewhere.
 
As to the 3DS stuff, my point was that there are many games that would benefit from a 3DS treatment; and some games in the original NES/FC library, such as 3-D Hot Rally, that would make excellent port candidates to the 3DS. I'm pretty unsatisfied with the platform for a few reasons, one of which is that the 'Tetris' release for the 3DS doesn't bother to include an actual 3D Tetris game: 'Welltris' (for home computers), and 'Tetris 3D' for the Virtual Boy are essentially the same game, and that kind of Tetris mode would have seemed perfect for the 3DS, but no. 'Tisn't there.
 
It's a rather good example of developers not using a system to its full potential. The 3DS is turning into yet another 3D gimmick, just like the original Nintendo 3-D system, and the SEGA 3-D System, and the Vectrex 3-D System... I would have thought that Nintendo would have provided more 1st-party support, and more games aimed at an older audience, that might appreciate that 1970s/1980s Tron-esque '3-D' ideal. Look at 'Battlezone', and then ask yourself why something that simple doesn't have a 3DS port, while 2-D versions of it existed on the original Gameboy.
 
I don't even know if Nintendo handled the 3D treatment of 'Hikari Shinwa' internally, or f they used a third-party developer, but I think yo get the idea. Fifteen years from now, people might well be discussing all the neat tricks they can do, making custom games for the 3DS, to take 'full advantage' of its abilities.
 
One thing that you may want to keep in mind with your tileset, is that sprite-layering was a popular way to overcome some of the system shortcomings in terms of available colours, and you may want to design your tileset with that in mind, to some extent.
 
You may also want to keep in mind why there are so many black swatches in the NES palette, because black was a very good colour to use as either shared, or in actual use; so you could create tiles that use the different 'black' swatches, for different applications. The shared greys, and similar greys, are also notable as being used both for transparency reasons, and for shading reasons.
 
I further suggest considering a dual release: One with a PAL-derived palette, and one with an palette derived from the NTSC emulation palettes, so that people who are used to seeing the murkier shades in the brown, tan, and yellow ranges will be able to ensure that games they make use these colours. Once you finish the tileset, you would only need to alter the palette settings, to make an alternative version. Whatever you do, you'll never be able to satisfy everyone, so do what you think looks best, and don't worry over-long about any critique.

Remember, some people find that the ZX Spectrum is a work of art too.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 14 April 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[DragonDePlatino]

Well, this thread has been rather quiet lately, so it's time for an update!

 

As you know, the default Zelda Classic tileset has 113 unique tile pages, including all of the Characters, tiles, items, etc. needed to make a complete quest.

So far, I've completed the first 81 of these pages which means...

• All monsters are completely animated and have their Csets assigned.
• All of the tile combos are complete, aside from the animated NPCs.
• Active Subscreen is finished.

All that's left are Link's sprites, the GUI and the special effects. I'll also need to get some more palettes for the levels and such, but I have someone working on that so I don't think it'll be a problem. So to satiate you guys until I'm finished, here's the finished active subscreen!

 

 

From here on out, I'm so far into the project that it's taking it's final shape. Thus, I'll be a lot more open for constructive critisism. How do these graphics look so far? And on the same note, what would you guys think about more items? There are already a ton of unused graphics in the default tiles, so it would be easy to go into the item editor and add in alternate levels using existing graphics. For an idea of what I'm talking about, here's the finished page 78:

 

[Demonlink]

Hmmmm, I've seen better. That would be a quote from somebody too damn stupid to not see the art in front his own eyes!  You sir, are quite talented, for which you deserve a 20 second hug and a bar of chocolate This... is what classic really means! Great job so far DdP! Every sprite so far looks perfect, except for two, the bracelet and the candle.

 

The bracelet could be a bit based off of the original one, of the Goron's bracelet from OoT or use a little more detailed, it looks... weird to me. Same goes for the candle, not so much as the bracelet, but you could make the flame be a bit, hmmm, actually on second thought, leave it as it is, the bracelet is the only thing that looks kinda weird, but that's for me, I'm not sure on everyone else

 

Keep up the great work man, that's a great imagination you have inside your brain By the way, about how much is this away from a beta or release? (No pressure of course).

[anikom15]

Not a fan of those shinies on the spells, unless they're animated (but I don't actually like animated items on the sunscreen).

[Koh]

I think they look great, except the Piece of Heart indicator.  Is that the empty state or the full state?  It just looks so brown and too full to be empty.  If it's representative of 1 or more, it should be that pinkish color some of the other items are.

 

Also, the Roc's Feather is a blue-white feather, not a brown feather.  They sort of canon-ised that starting from the Oracle games onward.  

Edited by Koh, 04 May 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Shane]

Zelda Classic shows the Heart Container sprite instead of the HCP meter itself when in the Subscreen Editor.

 

Also, Link's Awakening featured a brown Roc's Feather. What's the deal with it having to be blue? This is a tileset based before the Oracle games even existed, if we are using canon as reasoning.

Edited by Charizard, 04 May 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[Koh]

With it as brown as it is now, complimented with the design choice, it looks like a cut open hot-dog bun.

[Jenny]

Looks like a feather to me.

[Shane]

I don't think it looks anything like that nor changing its colour is gonna change the sprite itself.

[anikom15]

I didn't even know that was a feather. I unfortunately have to agree with Koh here. I'd rather it be blue by default given it's a Zelda tileset. It's Roc's Feather, not just any feather.

That said you can probably avoid calling things hot dog buns. It's hardly helpful. Yes, I think the compass looks like a vagina but I didn't mention that, did I?

[Master Maniac]

I didn't even know that was a feather. I unfortunately have to agree with Koh here. I'd rather it be blue by default given it's a Zelda tileset. It's Roc's Feather, not just any feather.

That said you can probably avoid calling things hot dog buns. It's hardly helpful. Yes, I think the compass looks like a vagina but I didn't mention that, did I?

 

 

Aaaand now I can't unsee it. Thank you. >.<

 

EDIT: Anyway, bringing the tip of the feather to a point, instead of having it rounded like it is, should help a bit.

Edited by Master Maniac, 04 May 2014 - 01:22 PM.