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Larger 1st Quest?


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#1 Cukeman

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:27 AM

This is just an idea to discuss the pros and cons of.

 

Working with LttP or MC graphics you have objects and enemies larger than one tile (especially trees). What do you think of remaking Z1 in Zelda Classic with each screen expanded to 4 screens? One map would become 4 maps.

 

One problem would be the maze screens. Finding the secrets would be a different experience since Z1 has a secret on nearly every screen, and the geography seen in pieces might be a little less familiar. Keeping track of your location on the overworld map might be a little awkward along the border between quadrants, although the default map is just your location in a solid gray box. You'd have to add or adjust enemy placements.

 

It could also be a way to really mix up the game and add new bits and pieces too. What other interesting things could be done, and what other problems could pop up?


Edited by Cukeman, 12 July 2017 - 10:28 AM.

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#2 Anthus

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:30 AM

I think the sheer size itself could pose a problem. You'd have to have a lot of stuff to fill that all up. I'm not saying it couldn't work, and it would be cool, but it would also take a lot of time.
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#3 Sheik

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:53 PM

If you want to reseize each screen into four screens you might want to remake the BS Zelda map instead given how you would end up with something potentially way too big. But in general I agree that it would be cool.



#4 Cukeman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:26 AM

As someone who tried to redo the 1x overworld map in larger graphics, I can say it was frustrating. So I'm gonna work on a 4x scale map in Photoshop and see what happens.

 

Here's the larger map with a grid over it (large image) :

https://drive.google...ZTMyM1J2RHVrbkU

 

Obviously things too close to a screen edge will need to be shifted a bit, not that big a deal.


Edited by Cukeman, 13 July 2017 - 04:00 AM.


#5 Anthus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:58 PM

Hm, it looks like it could actually work nicely, but you'd have to adjust the screen transitions that are in the middle of existing screens. Look at the starting screens, and the mountain screens in the upper left for an example. It would be awkward to have the transitions always be in the corners of certain screens. I think GB or even just plain ol' Pure would work nicely.
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#6 Cukeman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 09:33 PM

Using MC areas for palettes, here is how I would break the Z1 map into regions:

 

https://drive.google...WkZoZTVJVE0yU2M

 

Central:

-Lake Hylia

-Hyrule Field

 

North:

-"Mt. Crenel" (Death Mountain)

-Spectacle Rock (Death Mountain Summit)

-"Veil Falls"

 

West-SouthWest:

-"Castor Wilds" (Swamp)

-"Western Wood" (Lost Woods)

-"Royal Valley" (Graveyard)

 

East-SouthEast:

-The Coast

-Desert

-"Minish Woods" (Eastern Forest)


Edited by Cukeman, 13 July 2017 - 09:34 PM.

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#7 Anthus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:00 PM

I actually really like the colors there. MC is a very underrated (besides it's graphics) and deserves more ZC love. This kind of reminds me when I wanted to make AlttP in Classic. I sectioned stuff off similarly.

 

These are big


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#8 TheBlueTopay'za

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:10 PM

TJKBc7CtQludZ1OWtUsLaw.png
Yk1eWc6MSpewPU5RRx-dAA.png

these are my favorite screens


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#9 Cukeman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:16 PM

LOL, I wouldn't be that literal


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#10 Sheik

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 02:54 AM

The colors are very nice, makes the map come alive. I'm intrigued as to where this goes.


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#11 Cukeman

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 08:14 PM

I actually really like the colors there. MC is a very underrated (besides it's graphics) and deserves more ZC love.

 
I like MC a lot, it does feel too scripted IMO with all of the interruptions and the roadblocks limiting you though. It could have been a bit longer too, 'cause I was really enjoying what we got. A sequel made in that "engine" would have been great.
 

The colors are very nice, makes the map come alive. I'm intrigued as to where this goes.

 
Expect a bunch of MC map graphics plastered over it, then having those elements constantly shift around while I try to balance out the walkability. It'll look pretty crude for a while just roughing things out of in photoshop. Eventually, if I get a nice map I'll be wishing my tileset was more complete.
 
The hard part about MC graphics isn't the sprites, it's trying to verify whether or not you have all the map tiles in an area. I tend to rely on screen grabs because the tile extraction programs I've used don't display everything in the correct colors and some things are very hard to make out. They are also Windows only, and I need to reinstall Windows on my Mac sometime. 
 
Of course MC has no desert or coast, but I figure I can edit stuff from FS/FSA to get something that looks decent.
 
EDIT:
The dungeon placement is interesting:
Lake Hylia ( 1 ) ( 4 )
Eastern Forest ( 2 ) ( 8 )
Swamp ( 3 )
"Veil Falls" ( 5 )
Graveyard ( 6 )
"Western Woods" ( 7 )
Spectacle Rock ( 9 )
 
It makes sense not to have one in Hyrule Field, and Spectacle Rock counts as Death Mountain, but if I were to take liberties, instead of having two in the Lake and two in the Eastern Forest I'd like to have one on the Coast and one in the Desert for the sake of thematic variety.

 

EDIT 2:

Actually, I could feasibly switch the insides of Level 4 with one of the buildings on the Coast (perhaps a 3-stair room warp or a LttP style magic waterway warp could take you out to the Coast), and I could make the Dungeon 2 screen a passage to a Desert dungeon...

 

On the other hand being true to the original isn't a bad thing, and an empty desert and coast isn't a huge problem. I dunno.

 

Maybe I could have Level 2 transition/connect from Forest to Desert and Level 4 transition/connect from Lake to Coast. LttP dungeons sometimes had multiple entrances (Desert Palace, Skull Woods).

 

EDIT 3:

Probably the best option is to just add two extra optional dungeons, one for the Desert and one for the Coast. Maybe they are where you get the Blue Ring (at the Coast) and the... *thinks about another item*... maybe a second letter (ancient "egyptian" recipe) to unlock the potion you can use twice?

 

EDIT 4:

It'd be cool if this was a Hyrule where the first dungeon was the hollow, broken, ancient trunk of a great deku tree. Eerie.

 

EDIT 5:

Almost done with Hyrule Field, MAN it's hard to avoid scrolling edge bugs in forested areas!


Edited by Cukeman, 17 July 2017 - 09:13 AM.

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#12 Cukeman

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 03:50 PM

When burning a MC-sized tree with the candle/lantern, which secret would you prefer?

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing


Edited by Cukeman, 19 July 2017 - 03:19 AM.


#13 kurt91

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:04 PM

I think the one on the left makes more sense. The one on the right leaves no trace of the tree at all, there would at least be some amount of singed wood. The one on the left is still in pretty good condition, but you'd expect a fully-grown tree to survive a single candle.


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#14 Cukeman

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:15 AM

I guess another option is to leave a tree with no leaves and an entrance in the trunk


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#15 Reflectionist

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 01:01 AM

I approve of this idea. I considered it at one point, but never really had the drive to try it. However, I do have some suggestions.

First, check this fan art of the Zelda 1 overworld. Particularly the ominous entrance at Spectacle Rock. Looks cool, yeah?

Also, check out this image and its article and that might help translating the Zelda 1 'maze' into something more LttP-esque. :)

Oh, also, I found this: black, white, and water map. It looks useful, and I *think* someone actually AT Nintendo made it.

Scaling the map up is really cool. For the transitions between 'walls' where the centered paths now split two screens, just alternate which side the path tends to, so its kind of random. Or, consider using a Pegasus Boots script, and having a few transitions pointedly lined-up for easier access.

I'm interested to see how this goes!

Edited by Reflectionist, 20 July 2017 - 01:48 AM.

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